Are Seminaries and Bible Colleges Biblical?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Soo, we look for confirmation by circumstances?

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. (Heb 11:6)

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. (Heb 11:8)

These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
(Heb 11:13)

In Heb. 11, nearly every act of faith taking hold of God's promises, saw no 'confirming circumstance'.
Did I recommend using circumstances? No. Kindly don’t put words in my mouth.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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I don't believe all of God's words or scriptures had yet been completed at that time. There may have been some prophesying then, but once God's finished the Bible, and ordered his words to us the way he intended, and warned about adding and subtracting to the prophesies of this book, all prophesying at that time would likely not have been from God as before.
The Bible does not teach this. The book of Revelation calls itself a 'book.' In Revelation 1:11, John is told, "What thou seest, write in a book". Did he write the whole Bible? Literally, we could translate the word 'scroll.' The book of Revelation could fit on one scroll, but they would have used multiple scrolls for the whole Bible. There is a warning against adding to the scroll of Revelation.

And not all prophecies are included in the Bible. This is clear from the Old Testament. The prophets who met Saul coming from Shiloh prophesied something, and so did Saul, but those prophecies are not recorded in the Bible. There are lots of examples like this. Ahab did not like Micaiah's previous words spoken about him, before the one revelation that the prophet Micaiah gave that was actually recorded in scripture.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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That's rather immaterial. You were downplaying the use of extra biblical material and obviously Paul, by stating both 'books' and 'parchments' used more than Scriptures. If you can prove books=parchments=Scriptures, then I'll listen.
You are assuming what was in the parchments. How about arguing from Proverbs about seeking wisdom and knowledge?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Did I recommend using circumstances? No. Kindly don’t put words in my mouth.
Well, you did say this in post# 155 ..."I have on occasion, and the circumstances of the situations confirm to me that it was God speaking."

Maybe you can explain what you meant.
(I never said you 'recommended' it.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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You are assuming what was in the parchments. How about arguing from Proverbs about seeking wisdom and knowledge?
Again, since the Greek words for books and parchments are different, I'd be dishonest to think they were both speaking of the same thing viz. Scriptures. Not sure what Proverbs has to do with anything, since wisdom and knowledge come from the Scriptures and the God of Scripture.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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Dino246

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I don't believe all of God's words or scriptures had yet been completed at that time. There may have been some prophesying then, but once God's finished the Bible, and ordered his words to us the way he intended, and warned about adding and subtracting to the prophesies of this book, all prophesying at that time would likely not have been from God as before.
That's a very convenient way to look at it. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny though; take another look at 1 Corinthians 12 through 14.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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It sounds you are a prophet.

The Catholic hierarchy inducts people into their sainthood.
The Pentacostal hiearchy apparently inducts people into their prophethood.

I am beginning to see why I am hitting a nerve :)
No, I'm not a prophet, and it has nothing to do with any alleged Pentecostal hierarchy. However, God has spoken to me, many times. He speaks to me because He is my Father and I am His son.

You aren't hitting a nerve at all; rather, you're wrong, but too stubborn to see it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Well, you did say this in post# 155 ..."I have on occasion, and the circumstances of the situations confirm to me that it was God speaking."

Maybe you can explain what you meant.
(I never said you 'recommended' it.
I said exactly what I meant. You read your own beliefs into my statement.

Between the two, with which would you more closely identify: continuationist, or cessationist?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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God likes to work bottom-up.
80 yr old Moses the goat herder perhaps verses Pharoah, a god, and the most powerful man in the world at that time.

God likes to work bottom-up.

1 Corinthians 26-31
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

-------------------------------------------

Seminaries work top-down.

President --> Dean --> Professor --> Student who becomes Pastor ---> you and me and most of us believers.

Pope --> Cardinal --> Bishop ---> Priest ---> Parishoner.

Top -Down

interesting post. God likes to work Bottom-up". I would think God likes to look right in the heart of the person and see who is seeking HIM. There are many men and women who have served the Lord faithfully, and now are teaching many men and women in Biblical schools, colleges, and seminaries.
To suggest they are all useless when the majority of the pain and error in the local Church has nothing to do with a bible school or seminaries. it has to do more with God not having the full heart of the person.

Where hidden sin is stored up.

hate
adultery
racism
anger
pride
jeliosy
drunkness
addiction

many of these things are discovered when the person is in a Bible school or seminary. Most can hide the issues on a one-day-week churchgoer. That is why we need discernment which is spiritual maturity. To say that these places have no value then let's

look at some seminaries from the past.


School of Alexandria was founded by St. Mark comes to mind and the metropolitan (Origen) school and Cyprian and others. did they make mistakes? Yep, and you and I have not? Were they closer to the Eyewitnesses of Christ and the words of the Apostles or are we?

yet they too got things wrong right? and do do you and I . God is still able to use them and DID, AS hE IS ABLE TO USE YOU AND ME.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Between the two, with which would you more closely identify: continuationist, or cessationist?
Im closer to a cotinuationist in that the sign gifts continue but not new revelation, hence no more office of Prophets or Apostles.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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No, I'm not a prophet, and it has nothing to do with any alleged Pentecostal hierarchy. However, God has spoken to me, many times. He speaks to me because He is my Father and I am His son.

You aren't hitting a nerve at all; rather, you're wrong, but too stubborn to see it.
What am I wrong about, I will listen:
- the pope?
- that I dare question and test the seminaries?
- That I point out examples of where the seminaries are like the pharisees?
- Because I rightlfully pointed out that James compromised between the truth and the circumcision party and so he laid a lighter burden on the church of antioch?

You don't like that I test these things because it hits a nerve. Call me stubborn but are you not as well?
 
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That's a very convenient way to look at it. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny though; take another look at 1 Corinthians 12 through 14.
If by "doesn't stand up to scrutiny," you mean it doesn't convince you, so be it.

I don't believe God speaks new revelations beyond the completed word he has already prepared and given us. That is my understanding and my belief. I saw nothing in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 that suggested otherwise. The word of God was not yet finalized at that point.

Perhaps a prophet like Agabus prophesied about what would happen to Paul because it hadn't occurred yet nor was written down for us to edify later. But now the word is complete and set before us in the form intended and I don't believe anyone is going to prophesy future divine events to occur that are not already taught in the scriptures.

We can just disagree.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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interesting post. God likes to work Bottom-up". I would think God likes to look right in the heart of the person and see who is seeking HIM. There are many men and women who have served the Lord faithfully, and now are teaching many men and women in Biblical schools, colleges, and seminaries.
To suggest they are all useless when the majority of the pain and error in the local Church has nothing to do with a bible school or seminaries. it has to do more with God not having the full heart of the person.

Where hidden sin is stored up.

hate
adultery
racism
anger
pride
jeliosy
drunkness
addiction

many of these things are discovered when the person is in a Bible school or seminary. Most can hide the issues on a one-day-week churchgoer. That is why we need discernment which is spiritual maturity. To say that these places have no value then let's

look at some seminaries from the past.


School of Alexandria was founded by St. Mark comes to mind and the metropolitan (Origen) school and Cyprian and others. did they make mistakes? Yep, and you and I have not? Were they closer to the Eyewitnesses of Christ and the words of the Apostles or are we?

yet they too got things wrong right? and do do you and I . God is still able to use them and DID, AS hE IS ABLE TO USE YOU AND ME.
You make a very good post.
So I want to be clear. NO, I am not calling the seminaries devoid of God's Spirit. I am not saying they are devoid of true believers.
At one time was was questioning this, but I did see my error in this, and I am relieved to know this truth now. There were even believers among the pharisees.
It is by grace in which we are ALL saved. Amen!!!

And yes my number one priority and central focus is to address my own sins, not the sins of others. I am the problem, first and foremost.

So we do have to discern our way through this world.
And there is Corthinians 5 for example.
And when I have gone on social media I saw a number of my church brothers and sisters judging the rest of the world whether it was politics, or vaccines, or cultural. And I also saw some of this from the deacon(s), and I also heard some of this from the pastor(s).
So what I am looking into is what Paul said in corthinians 5:12.
I also keep close attention to James 4:11-12

I think when we judge we do so in a sinful way. But perhaps there is a righteous or proper way to judge as I think corithians 5:12 is pointing to.

But I am not being without sin myself in doing this. So either I ought not to be judging, or a I ought to learn to judge in a righteous or proper way. But at this point I am still working these things out. And to not burden or upset my church brothers and sisters causing them to judge me, and return sin against me, I work out these things on line anonymously with strangers of the faith.

So I do want to apologize if and when I sin. And I don't want to draw others to return sin against sin. And this is most difficult. And I am conflicted about this things. But I can't be the only one.

What I know is that I do not want to judge one's salvation. There is only One Judge for this James 4:11-12. For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. And this is NOT for me to judge!!! AMEN!!! I have peace with this.

But If the church I go to has apparent sins (or the seminaries I see have apparent sins) am I to just look the other way, or am I to consider and address these sins in some matter or way Corithians 5:12? In fact this right here might be a good thread to start.

So once more you do make a very good point and the number one priority is for each believer to focus first on addressing their own sins. For we cannot see clearly unless we have the Spirit of God in full, and if we continue to harbor sin then our greiving of the Sprite will cloud our judgement and sight. Thank you for this post.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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Apostle could be the seminary president
the prophets the deans
The evangelists the professors
the shepherds and teachers their students the pastors.

But then some argue that the office of apostle has ended. So what would that make the seminary president then? The chief priest?
Others suggest the office of prophet has ceased, so what does that make the dean?
So that would leave the evangelists, the shepards and the teachers.

Some argue there are only two offices in the church: overseer and deacon.
But then there are more than two offices in the seminary.

another question is that is this a hiearchy of sorts or not? Some interpret it as a hierachy others do not.

I don't have all these answers.

I know christians have freedom in Christ. So I would say Christians have the freedom to choose seminary or to not choose seminary.
but I feel you almost have to go to seminary to be a pastor. So there is your burden that is laid on you. I know some say well techinaclly that is not so, but I am sure it is difficult to become a pastor without seminary.
It is not my position to advise you one way or the other. The world is the world.

But what does scripture say?

Ecclesiastes 12
9 Besides being wise, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge, weighing and studying and arranging many proverbs with great care. 10 The Preacher sought to find words of delight, and uprightly he wrote words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12 My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.


So the many books you must buy and read in seminary, the wise warning from God is clear: BEWARE! Be cautious and alert to the dangers.
Some good points. Thank you.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Im closer to a cotinuationist in that the sign gifts continue but not new revelation, hence no more office of Prophets or Apostles.
I agree with you; there is no new revelation given for everyone. However, God speaks to His kids. That is revelation, but is not special revelation in the same category as Scripture, nor should it be equated with Scripture, nor should it be treated as incipient Scripture.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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What am I wrong about, I will listen:
- the pope?
The pope is irrelevant to biblical Christianity. Say anything you like about him within that framework.

- that I dare question and test the seminaries?
No. I actually would commend you for questioning and testing seminaries, if you do it properly. You didn't.

- That I point out examples of where the seminaries are like the pharisees?
You began with a generalized slam on all seminaries. Perhaps some seminaries are like Pharisees, but not all are.

- Because I rightlfully pointed out that James compromised between the truth and the circumcision party and so he laid a lighter burden on the church of antioch?
In this point, yes, you are simply wrong.. He didn't lay any burden on the church at Antioch, because he wasn't an elder of the church at Antioch. He was in Jerusalem, and the "burden" was on gentiles coming to Christ, not "the church". Further, he didn't compromise anything. He spoke as guided by the Holy Spirit.

You don't like that I test these things because it hits a nerve.
Not one of mine. You have a high opinion of your opinion.

Call me stubborn but are you not as well?
In some things, yes. I'm stubborn in defending the truth, and I'm stubborn in calling error, "error".
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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If by "doesn't stand up to scrutiny," you mean it doesn't convince you, so be it.

I don't believe God speaks new revelations beyond the completed word he has already prepared and given us. That is my understanding and my belief. I saw nothing in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 that suggested otherwise. The word of God was not yet finalized at that point.

Perhaps a prophet like Agabus prophesied about what would happen to Paul because it hadn't occurred yet nor was written down for us to edify later. But now the word is complete and set before us in the form intended and I don't believe anyone is going to prophesy future divine events to occur that are not already taught in the scriptures.

We can just disagree.
Read my response to Crossnote, post #176.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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The Bible does not teach this. The book of Revelation calls itself a 'book.' In Revelation 1:11, John is told, "What thou seest, write in a book". Did he write the whole Bible? Literally, we could translate the word 'scroll.' The book of Revelation could fit on one scroll, but they would have used multiple scrolls for the whole Bible. There is a warning against adding to the scroll of Revelation.

And not all prophecies are included in the Bible. This is clear from the Old Testament. The prophets who met Saul coming from Shiloh prophesied something, and so did Saul, but those prophecies are not recorded in the Bible. There are lots of examples like this. Ahab did not like Micaiah's previous words spoken about him, before the one revelation that the prophet Micaiah gave that was actually recorded in scripture.
I was thinking about that, Revelation. I believe that technically that is accurate, what you have explained.

But, that the principle applies to the entirety of the scriptures.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Granted, the rest of God's words haven't been set before us, but this fundamental principle is. The word is not limited to Deuteronomy. It encompasses "the word which I command you" which means all words.

Does God change in a sense where he forbids us in one place all word, but then in another place he only specifies a book? Does that cancel his previous command?

That's kind of my rationale.

As for Saul and the prophets, not everything is written down for us. Doesn't mean we can add any or fill-in-the-blanks. Not every miracle performed by Jesus was written down and recorded.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
 
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I agree with you; there is no new revelation given for everyone. However, God speaks to His kids. That is revelation, but is not special revelation in the same category as Scripture, nor should it be equated with Scripture, nor should it be treated as incipient Scripture.
I get what you're kind of thinking there, kind of along the lines of Ecclesiastes Chapter 6. But, once you start wavering with "special revelation" and "category as scripture," you kind of lose me. It's fine if we disagree.

I think this is the post #176 you referred me to. I'm not totally familiar with this message board yet and its inner workings.