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Uhhmmmm, we follow many men (Holy Bishops) who were guided by the Holy Spirit and followed the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5). Protestants on the contrary follow one man, Martin Luther and his 5 Sola's. Who should we trust? The teachings of one man (Martin Luther in 1517), or the teachings of many men (the over 1000 Orthodox Church Fathers from the years of 325 to 787 AD)?
Will it be a)
or b)
Will it be a)
or b)
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Acts 8:
30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Teachers who rightly-divide the word are necessary.
30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Teachers who rightly-divide the word are necessary.
E
Uhhmmmm, we follow many men (Holy Bishops) who were guided by the Holy Spirit and followed the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5). Protestants on the contrary follow one man, Martin Luther and his 5 Sola's. Who should we trust? The teachings of one man (Martin Luther in 1517), or the teachings of many men (the over 1000 Orthodox Church Fathers from the years of 325 to 787 AD)?
Will it be a)
or b)
Will it be a)
or b)
More "bearing false witness" against others.
Dude you get this from your church. that is the only reason you even say this, It is rediculous to say everyone follows Luther, and an outright lie and false pretense to believe so., Yet another sin of the EOC in order to keep people under its grasp from actually studying Gods word and finding out the truth about her heresies.
Paul spoke of this to Timothy when he sent him to Ephesus to weed out false teachers who were bringing heresy into the church. Things like forbidding marriage and certain foods. and other things which Satan had been trying to infiltrate into the church since it started. either by the jews, or the pagans. Satan had his greatest victory with the roman/orthodox churches years after the last apostle left us. And people are still buying into these heresies, traditions and religion because they follow, as you admit, men, and not God.
I feel sorry for you people. They tell you something and it is gospel truth, even when it has been proven to be false. It is called having a hard heart.
S
No false witness from NiceneChristian. False appeal to the Bible from you. If you follow God, and not men, and you are Protestant, why is your doctrine the same as Luther's, but you say you don't follow Luther. If your doctrine is the same as Luther's, isn't that the same as following Luther? What real difference is there? Do you believe is justification by faith alone? Where does that teaching come from? From God? No! From a man. From Luther.
Perhaps you don't follow Lutheran doctrine. But if you believe in sola Scriptura, that's a Lutheran doctrine. Anyway you look at it, some of your doctrines come because of the Protestant Reformation, not because of God and the Bible. From Protestant men, not from Orthodox men. All Christians follow both God (John 3:16) and men of God (Acts 8:30-31). There is no contradiction.
The question is: is Protestant tradition the "tradition of men", or the tradition of God?
Perhaps you don't follow Lutheran doctrine. But if you believe in sola Scriptura, that's a Lutheran doctrine. Anyway you look at it, some of your doctrines come because of the Protestant Reformation, not because of God and the Bible. From Protestant men, not from Orthodox men. All Christians follow both God (John 3:16) and men of God (Acts 8:30-31). There is no contradiction.
The question is: is Protestant tradition the "tradition of men", or the tradition of God?
E
MY DOCTRINE IS NOT THE SAME AS LUTHER'S SCOTT!
Why do you want to continue to lie and bear false witness against me? The only reason you believe my doctrine is from luther is because you are told it by your church. You have no basis of foundation or truth when you make that claim!!
So one doctrine? I follow one aspect and because of this I follow a man? Sorry Scott. Justification by faith is according to scripture. Paul taught it. Jesus taught it. Peter taught it. And James reiterated it when he agreed with Paul by claiming people who claim they have faith but in reality DO NOT are not saved. Your willing to base your eternity on men. and not seek truth for yourself just because you hate one man "Luther" that is a sad proclamation there scott!
Yeah your right. do we take the tradition of God found and proven by Scripture. or the traditions of men, NOT PROVEN IN SCRIPTURE?
Scripture comes from God. Things not found in scripture are added to it. and are not from God.
Do you want to follow God or man Scott? Right now your following Men, not God.!
C
heres the thing scotty, where did the tradition of bowing and kissing icons come from?? scripture??the apostles?? whos tradition??
or standing in church arms folded, the priest only can enter the holy of holies of the alter set up in the church? scripture??the apostles??
these are the things i remember from my youth being taken to eoc that definately i have not found in scripture since Christ revealed in my life
The Orthodox do not teach any heresies. We teach that priests can marry, but only before ordination. We teach that all foods are good, but we abstain from foods on certain days because the Lord Himself told us to fast, "when you fast" (Matthew 6:16). You don't understand,St Paul was talking about the teachings of the first Christian heretics - the GNOSTICS. He wasn't talking about regular (Orthodox) Christians.
Protestants do follow the teachings of Luther. The most commons teachings of his that you follow is "Sola Fide" and "Sola Scriptura". Now Sola Fide is a heresy because Christ told us that works are necessary, and St Paul told us to "Work our your salvation with fear and trembling" (Pill 2:12).
He said elsewhere in that epistle about this, "Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forward to those things which are ahead," Phil 3:13
Sola Scriptura is a heresy because nowhere in the whole Bible do we read that we need the Bible alone for salvation.
Protestants do follow the teachings of Luther. The most commons teachings of his that you follow is "Sola Fide" and "Sola Scriptura". Now Sola Fide is a heresy because Christ told us that works are necessary, and St Paul told us to "Work our your salvation with fear and trembling" (Pill 2:12).
He said elsewhere in that epistle about this, "Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forward to those things which are ahead," Phil 3:13
Sola Scriptura is a heresy because nowhere in the whole Bible do we read that we need the Bible alone for salvation.
Of course Scotth1960,the Ethiopian needed Peter to teach him,for the Ethiopian did not know anything,and did not have a start like a person saved,for the Ethiopian was not saved when Peter preached to him,like the preacher teaches all people who do not know the truth about Jesus,for they need someone to tell them before they are saved,and then when saved they have a heads up on the truth and the Spirit will teach them the word of God.
But the truth is that all who are saved,led by the Spirit can understand the Bible as equally well as the preacher or anybody else,if they study like the preacher for the Spirit will reveal it to them.
Are you saying that if we read the Bible and study like the preacher and have as much knowledge as him starting out,that the Spirit will reveal it to the preacher,and not reveal it to us unless we go hear his sermon on Monday,when Jesus said concerning all saints,that the Spirit,not a man,will guide them in to all truth,and show them things to come.
God said study the word of God to show yourself approved unto God,so God will reveal everything to us like the preacher,and without the preacher,if we study His word,which applies to all saints.
All saints can understand the word of God as equally well as the preacher if they study it,for the Spirit is not going to hold back information from any saint,and a common pew sitter can understand more than the preacher,if they study more than the preacher,and in multiple areas.
But of course the world does need the preacher,for they are not saved,to even begin to understand,for how can they know except a preacher be sent to them,or any other saint.
The preacher is for people who know not the truth,or has not studied the Bible,or maybe a certain area of the Bible,but if studied,any saint can know as much as the preacher for the Spirit will not hold back any knowledge of the Bible from any saint.
If we need the preacher to only tell us the interpretation of scripture,then why did God tell us to study the Bible,so the Spirit must teach us,and the Bible says when you hear the word of God search the scriptures to see if they are telling you the truth,leaving it up the word of God for our final understanding.
The preacher is not going to understand the word of God better than me if I study the word of God on the same equal level as him,and the preacher can even be surpassed in knowledge by a common pew sitter,if the pew sitter applies himself more than the preacher,for the Spirit reveals to all the saints,for the Bible says we need not any man teach us for the Spirit will teach us,the saints that are saved,but the world who does not know the truth needs someone to tell them.
But the truth is that all who are saved,led by the Spirit can understand the Bible as equally well as the preacher or anybody else,if they study like the preacher for the Spirit will reveal it to them.
Are you saying that if we read the Bible and study like the preacher and have as much knowledge as him starting out,that the Spirit will reveal it to the preacher,and not reveal it to us unless we go hear his sermon on Monday,when Jesus said concerning all saints,that the Spirit,not a man,will guide them in to all truth,and show them things to come.
God said study the word of God to show yourself approved unto God,so God will reveal everything to us like the preacher,and without the preacher,if we study His word,which applies to all saints.
All saints can understand the word of God as equally well as the preacher if they study it,for the Spirit is not going to hold back information from any saint,and a common pew sitter can understand more than the preacher,if they study more than the preacher,and in multiple areas.
But of course the world does need the preacher,for they are not saved,to even begin to understand,for how can they know except a preacher be sent to them,or any other saint.
The preacher is for people who know not the truth,or has not studied the Bible,or maybe a certain area of the Bible,but if studied,any saint can know as much as the preacher for the Spirit will not hold back any knowledge of the Bible from any saint.
If we need the preacher to only tell us the interpretation of scripture,then why did God tell us to study the Bible,so the Spirit must teach us,and the Bible says when you hear the word of God search the scriptures to see if they are telling you the truth,leaving it up the word of God for our final understanding.
The preacher is not going to understand the word of God better than me if I study the word of God on the same equal level as him,and the preacher can even be surpassed in knowledge by a common pew sitter,if the pew sitter applies himself more than the preacher,for the Spirit reveals to all the saints,for the Bible says we need not any man teach us for the Spirit will teach us,the saints that are saved,but the world who does not know the truth needs someone to tell them.
S
I believe I was talking to jimmydiggs. Sometimes these threads get confused with one another, with everybody quoting from one another, it's hard to remember who originally posted the quote.
You are wrong to accuse me of following men.
It is not wrong to follow men of God. St. Paul was a man of God. And many people were disciples of St. Paul. Remember that fact?
You are wrong to accuse me of following men.
It is not wrong to follow men of God. St. Paul was a man of God. And many people were disciples of St. Paul. Remember that fact?
S
Dear consumed, where did the tradition of faith alone come from? scripture? the apostles? whose tradition? It was from Martin Luther, not from Saint Paul! Where does the Scripture teach "by scripture alone"?
Scott H.
heres the thing scotty, where did the tradition of bowing and kissing icons come from?? scripture??the apostles?? whos tradition??
or standing in church arms folded, the priest only can enter the holy of holies of the alter set up in the church? scripture??the apostles??
these are the things i remember from my youth being taken to eoc that definately i have not found in scripture since Christ revealed in my life.
C
Dear consumed, where did the tradition of faith alone come from? scripture? the apostles? whose tradition? It was from Martin Luther, not from Saint Paul! Where does the Scripture teach "by scripture alone"?
Scott H.
heres the thing scotty, where did the tradition of bowing and kissing icons come from?? scripture??the apostles?? whos tradition??
or standing in church arms folded, the priest only can enter the holy of holies of the alter set up in the church? scripture??the apostles??
these are the things i remember from my youth being taken to eoc that definately i have not found in scripture since Christ revealed in my life.
friend sent me this yesterday, i found it to be so profoundly true
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Molinos writes in his book "The Seeking Heart" the chapter is title "The Internal Discovery".
Those who seek after a great deal of knowledge and information about the ways of God are really trying to satisfy their reasoning's and to attain to God by means other that those of the spirituals. In no such manner can you attain a true and passionate love for the Lord. Such men see after God by the acquisition information about the Scriptures are really nothing more than scholars. They do not know the unseen realms, nor do they realize the hidden things of God are found only within the spirit. Nor have they come to touch these joys which abide in the inmost depths of the believer....that place where God keeps His throne and communicate Himself to the one who comes and joins Him in that place.
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And its the Holy Spirit who reveals the unseen realms and hidden things of He who dwells within us sanctifying us by His grace. The "works" is His love that becomes evident in our walk, for to love Jesus is to walk the talk (logos)