Are there prophets today, or just profits?

[Nehemiah6]

Christians are being bombarded by claims from several directions that there are apostles and prophets today, and that we should listen to what they have to say. There is a list of false teachers and false prophets on the internet which indicates that there are at least 50 false prophets today, and about the same number of false teachers. So there is no shortage of wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Most of these people are focused on profits rather than genuine prophecy. Some of the prominent names which people may be familiar with are from within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), which asserts that there are modern apostles and prophets, and they have something to say to Christians. Lou Engel, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, John P. Kelly, C. Peter Wagner are all associated with NAR.

The late William M. Branham was a leading false prophet with a huge following. He made all kinds of predictions which never came to pass. But he also taught many false doctrines (“they shall privily bring in damnable heresies”), yet was regarded as “Elijah” or even “Jesus Christ” by his deluded followers. Evidently Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, and Benny Hinn considered him to be “a great man of God”.

Todd Bentley, Paul Begley, Mike Bickle with the International House of Prayer (IHOP), Bob Jones, Paul Cain, and many others have been identified as false prophets and false teachers. Yet people continue to listen to their nonsense. CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) has identified Mike Bickle and IHOP as being “cultic” and associated with the following characteristics:

1. Cultic origin, worship style, and goals
2. Emotionalism
3. Mysticism
4. Gnosticism
5. The IHOP dilemma
6. False Prophecies
7. Effective Denial of Sola Scriptura
8. Opposition by multiple Godly Christian Groups

These characteristics could be applied to just about all the false prophets and false teachers which exist today.

Christians who read and study their Bible should know that the Lord Jesus Christ had already told us that false Christs, false prophets and false teachers would appear in abundance before His second coming (Matthew 24:4,5,11): And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The apostles also identified the characteristics of false prophets and false teachers in detail, and we know from the book of Revelation that they had already begun to enter into the churches at that time. One of the outstanding marks of these people is that they are covetous, make merchandise of the Gospel, and accumulate great personal wealth on the backs of poor gullible Christians.

So the so-called “prophets” are out to make a profit from their false teachings and false prophesies. Here is what Peter told us already: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not... Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:3,15).

The real issue is whether Christians need prophets today, and the obvious answer is “No, they do not”. Why? Because all that we need for life and godliness is already to be found in Scripture – the Word of God. The apostle Paul made this crystal clear in 2 Timothy 3:16,17: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Christians are being bombarded by claims from several directions that there are apostles and prophets today, and that we should listen to what they have to say. There is a list of false teachers and false prophets on the internet which indicates that there are at least 50 false prophets today, and about the same number of false teachers. So there is no shortage of wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Most of these people are focused on profits rather than genuine prophecy. Some of the prominent names which people may be familiar with are from within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), which asserts that there are modern apostles and prophets, and they have something to say to Christians. Lou Engel, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, John P. Kelly, C. Peter Wagner are all associated with NAR.

The late William M. Branham was a leading false prophet with a huge following. He made all kinds of predictions which never came to pass. But he also taught many false doctrines (“they shall privily bring in damnable heresies”), yet was regarded as “Elijah” or even “Jesus Christ” by his deluded followers. Evidently Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, and Benny Hinn considered him to be “a great man of God”.

Todd Bentley, Paul Begley, Mike Bickle with the International House of Prayer (IHOP), Bob Jones, Paul Cain, and many others have been identified as false prophets and false teachers. Yet people continue to listen to their nonsense. CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) has identified Mike Bickle and IHOP as being “cultic” and associated with the following characteristics:

1. Cultic origin, worship style, and goals
2. Emotionalism
3. Mysticism
4. Gnosticism
5. The IHOP dilemma
6. False Prophecies
7. Effective Denial of Sola Scriptura
8. Opposition by multiple Godly Christian Groups

These characteristics could be applied to just about all the false prophets and false teachers which exist today.

Christians who read and study their Bible should know that the Lord Jesus Christ had already told us that false Christs, false prophets and false teachers would appear in abundance before His second coming (Matthew 24:4,5,11): And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The apostles also identified the characteristics of false prophets and false teachers in detail, and we know from the book of Revelation that they had already begun to enter into the churches at that time. One of the outstanding marks of these people is that they are covetous, make merchandise of the Gospel, and accumulate great personal wealth on the backs of poor gullible Christians.

So the so-called “prophets” are out to make a profit from their false teachings and false prophesies. Here is what Peter told us already: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not... Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:3,15).

The real issue is whether Christians need prophets today, and the obvious answer is “No, they do not”. Why? Because all that we need for life and godliness is already to be found in Scripture – the Word of God. The apostle Paul made this crystal clear in 2 Timothy 3:16,17: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If you mean for-telling what is to come or be, or when thing are to be or happen, NO.

 

[Lancelot]

Evangelists, pastors, teachers, profits, and apostles were all given to the church in Ephesians 4:11. If we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers then we still have apostles and profits. This is not to say that everybody who calls himself a profit or apostle is a true profit or apostle, but the gifts are still in effect for the equipping of the saints.

As for William Branham, he was a profit who was led off into error when he came under the influence of the United Pentecostal Church in the late 1950s. Kenneth Hagin gave Gordon Lindsay a prophecy in 1964 that he (Branham) would die soon if he didn't correct himself. When Brother Lindsay tried to talk some sense into Branham he wouldn't listen, and sure enough he died from injuries he received in a car wreck in late 1965. When people talk about Branham's prophetic ministry, they're talking about the 1940s and early 1950s before he got off into error, not the entirety of his ministry.

 

[p_rehbein]

Acts 2:17) [FONT=&quot]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


[/FONT]

 

[PennEd]

Acts 2:17) [FONT=&quot]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


[/FONT]

Yes, Peter said that the Prophecy of Joel, was filled RIGHT THERE AND THEN, THAT DAY, and also in the next 40 yrs or so with Paul.

We tend to have a myopic view of the "last days".
I believe the last days is in view of God's timeframe, not ours.

 

[notuptome]

Yes, Peter said that the Prophecy of Joel, was filled RIGHT THERE AND THEN, THAT DAY, and also in the next 40 yrs or so with Paul.

We tend to have a myopic view of the "last days".
I believe the last days is in view of God's timeframe, not ours.

It was partly fulfilled. The signs in the heavens are yet to be fulfilled. The latter part of Joel's prophecy is specific to Israel in that it is your referring to Israel sons, daughters, young men and old men not all flesh as in the pouring out of the Holy Spirit in the first part of the verse.

Pentecost is the feast of Shavuot which is a feast of the latter first fruits. We Gentiles also have a myopic view of prophecy. We see prophecy as ours when it is for Israel. It does apply and have benefit to us but it is given to Israel first.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Evangelists, pastors, teachers, profits, and apostles were all given to the church in Ephesians 4:11. If we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers then we still have apostles and profits. This is not to say that everybody who calls himself a profit or apostle is a true profit or apostle, but the gifts are still in effect for the equipping of the saints.

As for William Branham, he was a profit who was led off into error when he came under the influence of the United Pentecostal Church in the late 1950s. Kenneth Hagin gave Gordon Lindsay a prophecy in 1964 that he (Branham) would die soon if he didn't correct himself. When Brother Lindsay tried to talk some sense into Branham he wouldn't listen, and sure enough he died from injuries he received in a car wreck in late 1965. When people talk about Branham's prophetic ministry, they're talking about the 1940s and early 1950s before he got off into error, not the entirety of his ministry.

Branham was a leader in the latter rain movement which is the NAR movement today. He also started the UPC and denied the Trinity. Hagin was and WOF followers are latter rain domionionists too. The Assemblies of God rightly denounced the latter rain movement as heresy.

 

[garee]

I would say as always the word must derive meaning from the scriptures. God designed the words to have specific meaning.

Men add new meaning making the intent of the author of scripture Christ,without effect. Therefore violating one of the two laws of interpretation .The first principle found in Deuteronomy 4:3. Do not add meaning to a word singular. Where in Revelation 22 the last revelation sealing up any possibility of any new revelations to the end of time...do not add to the whole or the perfect .

It would seem that many make the existing revelation (the whole Bible) to no effect as if it lost its authority to actively work in the hearts of men. That can be seen by the silent period 400 years between the old and new revelations. where many private or secret books were attempted to be added. Over 2000 years to those who find the silent period today .

If we adhere to the original definition it becomes are safeguard from false prophets(adding to the word) as false apostles. Those two words form together to give one understanding.

A prophet is one who declares the existing will of God as it is written. An apostles which simply means sent one is one who brings prophecy as the word of God . Seeing God is not longer brinig any new revelations and apostle is limited to the prophecy they bring.

Those who desire to add to it with thus says the Lord, I had a dream or I had a vision, or heard a voice we are told to believe not. In that way the believer will not be deceived

Many dismiss the warning only applies to the book of Revelation and not the whole book of the law to include Revelation the Bible.

It is at that point that the father of lies deceives men who find the Bible coming short of what they think should mean complete or perfect. The perfect has come . Because we have the whole there are no spiritual laws by which we could know him more adequately. Why desire more?

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev 22:18

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:9

A good example is the Catholics who must walk by sight as to when they add their very own prophecy called "private revelations" to give them the illusion God is not silent as far as bringing new .revelation It becomes a platform for all cults launching their imaginary win win oral traditions of men .

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of "none effect" by your tradition.

The source of all the oral tradition of men that make God's tradition the Bible without effect . Whether its the Pope, Jim Jones ,Mohamed , Josef Smith of the Mormons , or any that would dare add to give the illusion God has violated his own law..

[TABLE="width: 580"]
[TR]
[TD]Pope Urban VIII on Private Revelation
His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because "you believed it to be true."(Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Johnny_B]

Christians are being bombarded by claims from several directions that there are apostles and prophets today, and that we should listen to what they have to say. There is a list of false teachers and false prophets on the internet which indicates that there are at least 50 false prophets today, and about the same number of false teachers. So there is no shortage of wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Most of these people are focused on profits rather than genuine prophecy. Some of the prominent names which people may be familiar with are from within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), which asserts that there are modern apostles and prophets, and they have something to say to Christians. Lou Engel, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, John P. Kelly, C. Peter Wagner are all associated with NAR.

The late William M. Branham was a leading false prophet with a huge following. He made all kinds of predictions which never came to pass. But he also taught many false doctrines (“they shall privily bring in damnable heresies”), yet was regarded as “Elijah” or even “Jesus Christ” by his deluded followers. Evidently Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, and Benny Hinn considered him to be “a great man of God”.

Todd Bentley, Paul Begley, Mike Bickle with the International House of Prayer (IHOP), Bob Jones, Paul Cain, and many others have been identified as false prophets and false teachers. Yet people continue to listen to their nonsense. CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) has identified Mike Bickle and IHOP as being “cultic” and associated with the following characteristics:

1. Cultic origin, worship style, and goals
2. Emotionalism
3. Mysticism
4. Gnosticism
5. The IHOP dilemma
6. False Prophecies
7. Effective Denial of Sola Scriptura
8. Opposition by multiple Godly Christian Groups

These characteristics could be applied to just about all the false prophets and false teachers which exist today.

Christians who read and study their Bible should know that the Lord Jesus Christ had already told us that false Christs, false prophets and false teachers would appear in abundance before His second coming (Matthew 24:4,5,11): And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The apostles also identified the characteristics of false prophets and false teachers in detail, and we know from the book of Revelation that they had already begun to enter into the churches at that time. One of the outstanding marks of these people is that they are covetous, make merchandise of the Gospel, and accumulate great personal wealth on the backs of poor gullible Christians.

So the so-called “prophets” are out to make a profit from their false teachings and false prophesies. Here is what Peter told us already: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not... Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness (2 Peter 2:3,15).

The real issue is whether Christians need prophets today, and the obvious answer is “No, they do not”. Why? Because all that we need for life and godliness is already to be found in Scripture – the Word of God. The apostle Paul made this crystal clear in 2 Timothy 3:16,17: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Branham was a United Pentecostal, so he did not believe in the Trinity, that you had to be baptized in Jesus name to be saved and had to speak in tounges as a sign that you had the Holy Spirit and were saved.

These so-called super-apostles were around during the early Church II Corinthinas 11:3-6, 12-15 “But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.5 Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.6 Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not so in knowledge; indeed, in every way we have made this plain to you in all things.....

12 And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”

The saddest part of the new super-apostles is they have masked themselves as Penecostals and blame what they do that is out of order on the Holy Spirit and it is something new He is doing. The Holy Spirit is not doing anything new, he was sent to glorify Jesus and lead us in truth John 16:12-15

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

We as the Church need to evangelize the people that follow these false apostles, false prophets and false teachers, because they need to know the truth and the real Jesus. These false teachers cannot be saved because the have a false view of God's nature and that in the foundation of a cult/false religion. I believe some of their followers are new believers that no nothing about the Bible and think it is a spiritual book that needs to be read different then other works of literature, the Bible follows all the rules of writing and is read according to it's genre, it's historical books as history, parables as parables, prophecy as prophecy and the rest.

The problem is that the majority of Churches teaching the Bible topically, they do not study or teach it in it context so it is easy to make the Bible say what they want it to say and new believers do not know any better so they think that they are being taught the right way, it happened to me and my family. But because we would not believe whatever the pastor said we would go read it for ourselves like they told us to do and the Lord opened our eyes to the Bibles truth. Also reading books on the Bible like Bible dictionaries, encyclopedias, handbooks, an almanac and listening to preachers that taught the Bible verse by verse and preached expositionally. It is hard to come to terms with the idea that you were believing a lie or a mis-interpertation of God's Word. No one want to come to terms with the fact that they were fooled for a while, it is very liberating once you come to terms and come out of that. I have family members that still go to a church that teaches topically and basically the same as the place we left, it is sad. Especially when you see them at family events and they still say thing that we said while we were part of that organization, they have not grown in the Lord, they are still drinking milk and cannot eat meat.

 

[Lancelot]

Branham was a leader in the latter rain movement which is the NAR movement today. He also started the UPC and denied the Trinity. Hagin was and WOF followers are latter rain domionionists too. The Assemblies of God rightly denounced the latter rain movement as heresy.

Branham didn't start the UPC. Did you mean that he started WITH the UPC? He was a Baptist until the late 1950s when he turned to the UPC for preaching opportunities because he got himself into tax trouble, and started teaching their doctrines.

And Kenneth Hagin wasn't a dominionist in the sense of Kingdom Now. He did believe that Christians should exercise dominion over sin, sickness, and oppression but he never taught that we would take dominion over the earth prior to Jesus' return. In fact he took issue with the Kansas City prophets and the Kingdom Now people. I don't think he ever took issue with the NAR because he passed in 2003 about the time they became a thing, but if you'll read what he said about prophets and apostles in his book "He Gave Gifts Unto Men" you'll see that he didn't agree with their views.

 

[tourist]

I will have to check the Profit and Loss statement.

 

[Johnny_B]

Evangelists, pastors, teachers, profits, and apostles were all given to the church in Ephesians 4:11. If we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers then we still have apostles and profits. This is not to say that everybody who calls himself a profit or apostle is a true profit or apostle, but the gifts are still in effect for the equipping of the saints.

As for William Branham, he was a profit who was led off into error when he came under the influence of the United Pentecostal Church in the late 1950s. Kenneth Hagin gave Gordon Lindsay a prophecy in 1964 that he (Branham) would die soon if he didn't correct himself. When Brother Lindsay tried to talk some sense into Branham he wouldn't listen, and sure enough he died from injuries he received in a car wreck in late 1965. When people talk about Branham's prophetic ministry, they're talking about the 1940s and early 1950s before he got off into error, not the entirety of his ministry.

Brother profits are gains from money or investments, the apostles and prophets and the foundation of the Church with Chirst being the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-22

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

So according to these Scriptures there are no apostles or prophets today because they are the foundation that the Church is being built on. These people that claim to be apostles or prophet do not seem to read the Bible much. The prophets talked about in I Corinthians are those that proclaim the word of God under the power of influance of the Holy Spirit and when they prophesy sinner hearts are revealed, they are convinced and convicted and they worship God.

I Corinthians 14:23-25 “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.”

As far as Hagin and Linsay goes they are part of the same group as Roberts and Branham. How can anyone consider that a prophecy of course he was going to die weather he repented or not. Hagin, Linsay John G. Lake, A. A. Allen, T. L. Osborn, F. F. Bosworth and all the rest of the word of faith guys are all heretics. They all follow the teachings of E. W. Kenyon who was the origin of the blab it a grab it, positive confession movement that is now cal the word of faith movement. E. W. Kenyon is the one that started the, born again Jesus teaching in his book, "What Happened From the Cross to the Throne" Don Gosset co-authored some books with Kenyon.

He was also the base of the trinity with-in the Trinity, the the Father is three persons as well as Jesus and the Holy Spirit add that to the born again Jesus, oh I almost forgot Jeus became satan before He was born again. I read more then 5 of Kenyon's books, I was a young believer and the Jesus becomeing satan and Him being born again was it for me. The organization I was part of when I first was called by the Lord they recommended his book "The Bible in Light of Our Redemption" Which at that time I thought was a good book, that was why I read more of his books. I wish I would of kept those books with a lots of other books that I read as a young believer, that way I could quote the book and page that they say thing that are not Biblical.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Evangelists, pastors, teachers, profits, and apostles were all given to the church in Ephesians 4:11. If we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers then we still have apostles and profits. This is not to say that everybody who calls himself a profit or apostle is a true profit or apostle, but the gifts are still in effect for the equipping of the saints.

As for William Branham, he was a profit who was led off into error when he came under the influence of the United Pentecostal Church in the late 1950s. Kenneth Hagin gave Gordon Lindsay a prophecy in 1964 that he (Branham) would die soon if he didn't correct himself. When Brother Lindsay tried to talk some sense into Branham he wouldn't listen, and sure enough he died from injuries he received in a car wreck in late 1965. When people talk about Branham's prophetic ministry, they're talking about the 1940s and early 1950s before he got off into error, not the entirety of his ministry.

I'm giddy with the truthful error being presented

really

 

[Lancelot]

Brother profits are gains from money or investments, the apostles and prophets and the foundation of the Church with Chirst being the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-22

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

So according to these Scriptures there are no apostles or prophets today because they are the foundation that the Church is being built on. These people that claim to be apostles or prophet do not seem to read the Bible much. The prophets talked about in I Corinthians are those that proclaim the word of God under the power of influance of the Holy Spirit and when they prophesy sinner hearts are revealed, they are convinced and convicted and they worship God.

I Corinthians 14:23-25 “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.”

As far as Hagin and Linsay goes they are part of the same group as Roberts and Branham. How can anyone consider that a prophecy of course he was going to die weather he repented or not. Hagin, Linsay John G. Lake, A. A. Allen, T. L. Osborn, F. F. Bosworth and all the rest of the word of faith guys are all heretics. They all follow the teachings of E. W. Kenyon who was the origin of the blab it a grab it, positive confession movement that is now cal the word of faith movement. E. W. Kenyon is the one that started the, born again Jesus teaching in his book, "What Happened From the Cross to the Throne" Don Gosset co-authored some books with Kenyon.

He was also the base of the trinity with-in the Trinity, the the Father is three persons as well as Jesus and the Holy Spirit add that to the born again Jesus, oh I almost forgot Jeus became satan before He was born again. I read more then 5 of Kenyon's books, I was a young believer and the Jesus becomeing satan and Him being born again was it for me. The organization I was part of when I first was called by the Lord they recommended his book "The Bible in Light of Our Redemption" Which at that time I thought was a good book, that was why I read more of his books. I wish I would of kept those books with a lots of other books that I read as a young believer, that way I could quote the book and page that they say thing that are not Biblical.

Okay, I misspelled prophets and you misspelled whether and a few other words, so I guess we're even. (I did spell it right in the previous post, though. ;-)

As for the apostles being foundational, that's referring to the original twelve. There were other apostles listed in the NT. Barnabas and James were called apostles, along with Epaphroditus. The word "apostle" in the Greek is apostolos, which means "sent one". In effect, an apostle is just somebody who is sent to a particular place to establish a work for the spreading of the gospel. Agabus was a prophet, but he wasn't revealing anything about the hearts of sinners. He foretold a famine and Paul's fate in Jerusalem. The didache mentions how to treat prophets, so apparently the church still had prophets well into the 2nd century. Besides that, in Revelation we see the false prophet. If there are no more true prophets, then why would there be a false prophet?

 

[wolfwint]

Okay, I misspelled prophets and you misspelled whether and a few other words, so I guess we're even. (I did spell it right in the previous post, though. ;-)

As for the apostles being foundational, that's referring to the original twelve. There were other apostles listed in the NT. Barnabas and James were called apostles, along with Epaphroditus. The word "apostle" in the Greek is apostolos, which means "sent one". In effect, an apostle is just somebody who is sent to a particular place to establish a work for the spreading of the gospel. Agabus was a prophet, but he wasn't revealing anything about the hearts of sinners. He foretold a famine and Paul's fate in Jerusalem. The didache mentions how to treat prophets, so apparently the church still had prophets well into the 2nd century. Besides that, in Revelation we see the false prophet. If there are no more true prophets, then why would there be a false prophet?

Where are the prophets then? And what is there duty? According my understanding they tell gods word to others.
In the time when the NT was not written down, very needet. Today, i would say every preacher who is preaching gods word is in a sense a prophet if the Holy Spirit is useing him so.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Branham didn't start the UPC. Did you mean that he started WITH the UPC? He was a Baptist until the late 1950s when he turned to the UPC for preaching opportunities because he got himself into tax trouble, and started teaching their doctrines.

And Kenneth Hagin wasn't a dominionist in the sense of Kingdom Now. He did believe that Christians should exercise dominion over sin, sickness, and oppression but he never taught that we would take dominion over the earth prior to Jesus' return. In fact he took issue with the Kansas City prophets and the Kingdom Now people. I don't think he ever took issue with the NAR because he passed in 2003 about the time they became a thing, but if you'll read what he said about prophets and apostles in his book "He Gave Gifts Unto Men" you'll see that he didn't agree with their views.

You are correct. I just looked it up in the hermeneutics book I read years ago where I got that idea and it says Branham started the "Jesus Only" denomination not UPC.

 

[Nehemiah6]

As for the apostles being foundational, that's referring to the original twelve. There were other apostles listed in the NT.

Scripture makes it perfectly clear that those twelve foundational apostles were the only apostles so-named by God and Christ (Judas replaced by Paul).

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.(Rev 21:14).

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mt 19:28)

If there are no more true prophets, then why would there be a false prophet?

Because it was prophesied by Christ. The apostle John was the last true apostle-prophet, and Christ was God's ultimate Prophet as prophesied by Moses. He was Prophet, Priest, and King.

A true prophet spoke by Divine revelation, meaning that his words were the equivalent of Scripture. The apostles had both gifts of apostle and prophet, so Peter could write about himself that he had "a more sure word of prophecy" and he could also write by Divine inspiration that all of Paul's epistles were equivalent to Scripture.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation [origin].

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet 1:19-21).

 

[Johnny_B]

Okay, I misspelled prophets and you misspelled whether and a few other words, so I guess we're even. (I did spell it right in the previous post, though. ;-)

As for the apostles being foundational, that's referring to the original twelve. There were other apostles listed in the NT. Barnabas and James were called apostles, along with Epaphroditus. The word "apostle" in the Greek is apostolos, which means "sent one". In effect, an apostle is just somebody who is sent to a particular place to establish a work for the spreading of the gospel. Agabus was a prophet, but he wasn't revealing anything about the hearts of sinners. He foretold a famine and Paul's fate in Jerusalem. The didache mentions how to treat prophets, so apparently the church still had prophets well into the 2nd century. Besides that, in Revelation we see the false prophet. If there are no more true prophets, then why would there be a false prophet?

You did not spell profit wrong and I was not trying to clown you, I thought maybe you used it because of the title. Here are the requirements to be an apostle, Acts 1:20-22 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

I understand that it means "sent out one or one sent forth" those that are the original were apostles had to meet the requirements of Acts 1:21-22, after that the apostles were or are "sent out ones or missionaries, except for Paul who was

Paul was I Corinthians 15:8-11 “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”

Help me understand your reasoning for false prophets, there has to be true prophets alive for there to be false prophets that are alive, right? With that reasoning, does that mean we need a true chirst on earth for there to be false chirst's today? So is that your reasoning for there being apostles today, right?

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes, Peter said that the Prophecy of Joel, was filled RIGHT THERE AND THEN, THAT DAY, and also in the next 40 yrs or so with Paul.

We tend to have a myopic view of the "last days".
I believe the last days is in view of God's timeframe, not ours.

Do you think it was possible that Paul and others thought Jesus would return in their lifetime, PennEd? They said, in these last days in their writings didn't they?

 

[stonesoffire]

You did not spell profit wrong and I was not trying to clown you, I thought maybe you used it because of the title. Here are the requirements to be an apostle, Acts 1:20-22 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

I understand that it means "sent out one or one sent forth" those that are the original were apostles had to meet the requirements of Acts 1:21-22, after that the apostles were or are "sent out ones or missionaries, except for Paul who was

Paul was I Corinthians 15:8-11 “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”

Help me understand your reasoning for false prophets, there has to be true prophets alive for there to be false prophets that are alive, right? With that reasoning, does that mean we need a true chirst on earth for there to be false chirst's today? So is that your reasoning for there being apostles today, right?

Apostles are sent into regions to start churches. Prophets are given revelation of events to come for the body. The rest have no need of explanation for most have evangelists, teachers and pastors. It was never meant to be a one man show though.

Here is where men make church a business, or ones own kingdom. And profits have much to do with it.