Are we in the end times ?

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Sep 16, 2021
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JBF, you said: "I do not believe that the doctrine of the rapture is heresy. It is actually taught by some of the largest mainline Protestant denominations (including the one that I now attend, Calvary Chapel)."

"When you find yourself in the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."--"Mark Twain

It's not always good to be in the majority--millions died in the flood. only eight were saved. thousands died in the destruction of sodom and gomorrah--only three were saved.:unsure:
You are implying that the majority of churchgoers do not have the Holy Ghost.

I suppose that we can continue on with that assumption.

There may be a cult that will soon be developed here...and because the minority will believe in the doctrine of that cult, they must be right!
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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You are implying that the majority of churchgoers do not have the Holy Ghost.

I suppose that we can continue on with that assumption.

There may be a cult that will soon be developed here...and because the minority will believe in the doctrine of that cult, they must be right!

Where did I say that? My point is you say 'one of the largest churches' --well Joel Osteen church is THE largest along with Craig Groeschel and Steve Furtick's churches. If these aren't false teachers, then I don't know what is--my point is being in majority does not make something right.

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."--Matthew 7:15

No true teacher of God's word will ever make a profit off the gospel--ever. No true teacher will use tricks or gimmicks--ever.
No true teacher makes a politician into some kind of Messiah like Jack Hibbs did, crying because Trump lost. Can you imagine Jesus or the apostles doing such a thing? Jesus is our saviour not some man here on the earth--and certainly not an unbeliever!
 
Sep 16, 2021
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There are some good songs that Steve Furtick was a co-author of...

I have not looked into his teaching well enough to know whether his doctrine is false or not.

I would just encourage people to stick to the Bible and be Bereans (Acts 17:10-11) as concerning what they might hear from any teacher. Even if that teacher has earned a reputation for being solid.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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There are some good songs that Steve Furtick was a co-author of...

I have not looked into his teaching well enough to know whether his doctrine is false or not.

I would just encourage people to stick to the Bible and be Bereans (Acts 17:10-11) as concerning what they might hear from any teacher. Even if that teacher has earned a reputation for being solid.

Satan comes as an 'angel of light' and one of his best methods is to mix truth with lies. No one gives the poison straight--they always mix it with something sweet.
 
Sep 16, 2021
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Satan comes as an 'angel of light' and one of his best methods is to mix truth with lies. No one gives the poison straight--they always mix it with something sweet.
Maybe you should identify here some of Furtick's false teachings so that we can know whether or not to avoid him.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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1Co 9:14, Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Again--a poor argument. There are ethical CEO's of companies and unethical--some who rob from their employees and customers and those who don't. A 'worker is worthy of his wages.' Even Paul who worked full time for the gospel said he continued to work [making tents] so that he wouldn't be a burden to the believers. He most certainly did not have a monthly salary to rely on.

"23 Are they servants of Christ? I know I sound like a madman, but I have served him far more! I have worked harder, been put in prison more often, been whipped times without number, and faced death again and again. 24 Five different times the Jewish leaders gave me thirty-nine lashes. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked. Once I spent a whole night and a day adrift at sea. 26 I have traveled on many long journeys. I have faced danger from rivers and from robbers. I have faced danger from my own people, the Jews, as well as from the Gentiles. I have faced danger in the cities, in the deserts, and on the seas. And I have faced danger from men who claim to be believers but are not.[a] 27 I have worked hard and long, enduring many sleepless nights. I have been hungry and thirsty and have often gone without food. I have shivered in the cold, without enough clothing to keep me warm."--2 Corinthians 11:23-27
 
Sep 16, 2021
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Again--a poor argument. There are ethical CEO's of companies and unethical--some who rob from their employees and customers and those who don't. A 'worker is worthy of his wages.' Even Paul who worked full time for the gospel said he continued to work [making tents] so that he wouldn't be a burden to the believers. He most certainly did not have a monthly salary to rely on.

"23 Are they servants of Christ? I know I sound like a madman, but I have served him far more! I have worked harder, been put in prison more often, been whipped times without number, and faced death again and again. 24 Five different times the Jewish leaders gave me thirty-nine lashes. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked. Once I spent a whole night and a day adrift at sea. 26 I have traveled on many long journeys. I have faced danger from rivers and from robbers. I have faced danger from my own people, the Jews, as well as from the Gentiles. I have faced danger in the cities, in the deserts, and on the seas. And I have faced danger from men who claim to be believers but are not.[a] 27 I have worked hard and long, enduring many sleepless nights. I have been hungry and thirsty and have often gone without food. I have shivered in the cold, without enough clothing to keep me warm."--2 Corinthians 11:23-27
Paul contended for the reality that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel but did not apply that to himself...

He wanted to make sure that people knew he was not contending for that doctrine selfishly.
 
Sep 16, 2021
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Anyone who questions this can research this easily for themselves. There are countless articles and youtube videos.
How can we know what he is teaching without watching or reading what he is teaching? And if we do that, and he is also a deceiver, how can we be certain that we ourselves will not be deceived by what we watch or read?

This is why I encourage the reader to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and read their Bibles.

1Th 5:21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I think that you are irresponsible to identify someone as a false teacher when you cannot identify what in their teachings is truly false.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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Paul contended for the reality that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel but did not apply that to himself...

He wanted to make sure that people knew he was not contending for that doctrine selfishly.
Seriously? Of course it applied to him as well!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Hi Evmur,

I wanted to add that the wrath of God is not the Tribulation, but is God's final Judgment--the tribulation is a wake up call--"behold, I am coming soon." Those who believe they will be whisked away to safety are in for a sad awakening and more likely to be fooled by a false Messiah. God warned us to prepare us, j ust as he did the Christians regarding the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Many were able to escape because they knew prophecy.
Gods judgment is part of the cause of the great tribulation period.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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How can we know what he is teaching without watching or reading what he is teaching? And if we do that, and he is also a deceiver, how can we be certain that we ourselves will not be deceived by what we watch or read?

This is why I encourage the reader to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and read their Bibles.

1Th 5:21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I think that you are irresponsible to identify someone as a false teacher when you cannot identify what in their teachings is truly false.
I agree--the Bereans studied the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true--I suggest you do likewise. If you don't agree with what I say about Furtick and the rest of them, you need to study it for yourself. If a teacher teaches something and I don't agree, I don't expect them to tell me why they are right, I need to investigate the thing for myself.

All fanaticism and false doctrine comes from the isolation of verses. We must always test scripture against scripture. Yes we must "prove all things and hold fast to what is good"--it sound like you're telling others they need to do that--but it is for the reader to apply to THEMSELVES. I find the majority of Christians hold fast to the doctrine they have been indoctrinated with instead holding fast to God's Word.

Even Satan used scripture to try to tempt Jesus--I caution you to use it rightly.

Satan Tempts Jesus
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”


4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,


‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not [a]tempt the Lord your God.’ ”--Matthew 4:1-7
 
Oct 31, 2021
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Maybe you should identify here some of Furtick's false teachings so that we can know whether or not to avoid him.
Steve Furtick has a mansion in Waxhaw, NC, on almost 20 acres. He lives less than 8 miles from where I live now.

I have never been to his nearby church in Charlotte, but I have talked to many locals about him.

He associates himself with the prosperity Gospel and brother does he have some doctrinal issues with scripture.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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How can we know what he is teaching without watching or reading what he is teaching? And if we do that, and he is also a deceiver, how can we be certain that we ourselves will not be deceived by what we watch or read?

This is why I encourage the reader to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and read their Bibles.

1Th 5:21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I think that you are irresponsible to identify someone as a false teacher when you cannot identify what in their teachings is truly false.
Here. I will share brief excerpts along with their links. Again we all need to study these matters four ourselves.

His net worth is approximately 55 Million--that ought to tell you something right there

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God."--2nd Corinthians 2:17


Steven Furtick is the Most Dangerous Kind of False Teacher

In a recent sermon by Steven Furtick, he proclaims:

“The power of God was in Jesus, the healing power of God, the restoring power of God, the same power that made demons flee was in Nazareth, but Jesus could not release it. Because it was trapped in their unbelief. And there’s one thing that even Jesus can’t do. One thing that even the son of God can’t do. Even Jesus cannot override your unbelief. I see y’all looking at me like, ‘Is that true? I thought He could do anything.’ It said, ‘He could not.’ He wanted to. He was prepared to. He was able to. The power of God was in Nazareth, but it was trapped in their perspective.”​

So why do I find this so particularly dangerous? Why write an entire blog post for 111 little words? He’s a winsome speaker. He has a means of captivating the undiscerning through his inflection, repetition, and word-choice, meaning he’s a good orator. This wouldn’t be an issue in the slightest if the content of what he preached was adequate, but given the fact that heresy has escaped his lips without him batting an eye, it makes him particularly dangerous. Yet the other manner in which he is particularly dangerous is due to his inability to draw out the basic meaning of a text.....

...Secondly, another concern is simply that his interpretation is not in concord with other passages of Scripture. There are several notable examples within the Scriptures that demonstrate faith had no bearing upon the recipient of Christ’s miracles. It should obviously be stated that a corpse cannot retain faith (Luke 7:1-16). Pretend the aforementioned objection of a corpse’s faith is a strawman and that Christ must simply have the faith of someone in order to perform the miraculous.

John 11 utterly refutes this notion as well, for both Mary and Martha conceived of His ability in proximity (vv. 21, 32). Martha confuses Christ’s promise to raise Lazarus as an eschatological promise (v. 24) and still objected to Him rolling the stone away after He corrects her (v. 39). Combine this with other instances of healing the multitudes and demoniacs who were restored without even the prior ability to ask, and we see faith is not a prerequisite for Christ’s miracles.

Furthermore, we know that the Lord does as He pleases – and people throughout the span of the Scripture acknowledge this without hesitancy (Psalm 115:3, 135:6; Daniel 4:35; Jonah 1:14). It is God who will specifically violate one’s unbelief; if this were not so, why would any individual cry out to the Lord, “Help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:24). Furthermore, there would be no hope for any sinner if Christ could not override unbelief, for we know that Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they cannot see the glorious gospel (2 Cor. 4:4). Are we so foolish to assume a puny God, bested by Satan and humanity? As a general, hermeneutical rule of thumb, if your interpretation of a passage contradicts other passages in Scripture, and basic lines of philosophical reasoning, you’ve yet to reach the proper conclusion.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/chorusinthechaos/steven-furtick-false-teacher/


Fake Baptisms

But a new report from NBC Charlotte suggests that Elevation’s supposedly spontaneous baptisms are carefully planned ahead of time, with people planted in the congregation to start the walk down the aisle.....“This is one of the byproducts of an evangelical movement that favors emotionalism and personal experience over doctrine, theology and biblical teaching,” Smith said.

https://religionnews.com/2014/02/24...en-furticks-spontaneous-baptisms-spontaneous/


It's Time to walk away from Steven Furtick

..."I’ve often tried to give Furtick charitable interpretations, but I think it’s finally time for me advocate and truly encourage those who like him and are regular listeners that it’s time to move on. The clip that is circulating on social media right now is pretty hard to ignore. In the clip, Furtick seems to be teaching a heresy known as modalism. Modalism essentially denies the Trinity and claims that there is one God who takes on three different forms—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

Modalism: the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature.

https://camlhyde.com/blog/2020/3/5/its-time-to-walk-away-from-steven-furtick
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Steve Furtick has a mansion in Waxhaw, NC, on almost 20 acres. He lives less than 8 miles from where I live now.

I have never been to his nearby church in Charlotte, but I have talked to many locals about him.

He associates himself with the prosperity Gospel and brother does he have some doctrinal issues with scripture.
Hi Charlie,

I just posted a few excerpts about him with the links. His current net worth is 55 million--and that of course doesn't include his other perks.
 
Oct 31, 2021
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Hi Charlie,

I just posted a few excerpts about him with the links. His current net worth is 55 million--and that of course doesn't include his other perks.
I can tell you that the Christian circle where I am, he is not respected as a true Gospel preacher.

But there are thousands in this area falling for this prosperity Gospel and Furtick is the only one prospering in reality!
 
Oct 31, 2021
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I can tell you that the Christian circle where I am, he is not respected as a true Gospel preacher.

But there are thousands in this area falling for this prosperity Gospel and Furtick is the only one prospering in reality!
He's another Joel Osteen! Preach what the people want to hear, don't preach sin, don't step on toes with the truth of scripture that brings repentance.

Gain a following, establish a name through that accomplishment, and write books that bring in the millions, write songs that bring in the millions, while the whole time pretending to be a great man of God!
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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I can tell you that the Christian circle where I am, he is not respected as a true Gospel preacher.

But there are thousands in this area falling for this prosperity Gospel and Furtick is the only one prospering in reality!

And the thing that baffles me, who are ALL these people? Doesn't the Holy Spirit convict people, even if they are new believers, that something isn't right?

So maybe someone new to the faith needs to learn to discern the spirits 'whether they are of God'? :unsure:

When I first came to California and I was invited to a couple of charismatic churches (also Crystal Cathedral--more the prosperity gospel) --e.g. Vineyard and another one--can't recall the name. I had never heard of speaking in tongues or slaying in the spirit-- I was 20 and had been going to church since I was six.

(Now, I am not against speaking in tongues if you are speaking in a KNOWN language and somebody is there to interpret----so far I haven't seen that at any church I've ever attended--it's always been people babbling all at once--precisely what scripture says NOT to do.)

In any case--my heart was pounding inside of my chest--I felt angry and agitated--the whole thing was unsettling/fake and to me devilish. My aunt had taken me to one--she was educated--her husband had been at one time a Presbyterian minister, but no longer believed. The other was a friend--sort of a hippie, but smart, 'seemingly' down to earth; however, neither was the kind of person I would expect to be hoodwinked by this nonsense. Sorry, but I would think you'd have to have a pretty low IQ--apparently not....