Are we sinners?

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Are christians still sinners?


  • Total voters
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Nov 22, 2015
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LOL..you are a trip..I just love you!..you come up with the strangest things....read the bold red in Spurgeon and it was all about trusting in Him..None but Jesus..I'm pretty sure grace is all about Him and him alone.

Ok....here is a simplified form of the gospel of grace of Christ which is what Spurgeon was getting across to us...


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You hit the nail on the head. I love this process because it teaches me so much about the true faith.

What you have revealed is that New Grace faith is simply an identity faith in which a person is only as pure as he believes himself to be. Gnostic mysticism at its finest.

What Spurgeon said is that once a believer no longer believes he needs grace for his sin, he has outgrown the need for grace and has become ruined. This is exactly what New Grace teaches, and what the gnostics taught.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Hyper-grace failure

There is no condemnation is following Jesus because we are sons of God who are slaves to righteousness.

The reason why hyper-grace is heresy because love is no longer the focus, but grace in Christ.
This grace is now eternal life and only after the cross can it be found, and before the cross all was legalism and failure, but after freedom and success.

Legalism has always been failure because love of God and love of others has always been Gods way. Those who by faith in God received this walked in His grace, from the time of Adam to now.
Walking in righteousness has always been about a relationship with God.
Enoch knew God and he was not.

What we have after seeing Jesus is sight of how this love is ultimately expressed in the cross, where God humbled himself and said the sin done against him was forgiven if we walk in Jesus way.

Hyper-grace can change the gospel by putting all the restraining and doing ideas into legalism, and all the wealth, health, domination ideas into the grace doctrine.

The problem is this concept is flawed as the apostles called us to follow in Jesus commands, to the extent if we do not we are not filled with the Holy Spirit.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The reason why hyper-grace is heresy because love is no longer the focus, but grace in Christ.
This grace is now eternal life and only after the cross can it be found, and before the cross all was legalism and failure, but after freedom and success.
You nailed it. Exactly as the gnostics used to think. Grace to New Grace believers is freedom from any constraints, i.e., lawlessness.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Good morning Peter my brother!..

Again...it is obvious you have not heard what we have said about the grace of Christ and how His love in us flows through us to Him and to others.....and how He has changed us as we completely rely on His life in us and what He has accomplished for us in His finished work.

We always tell about how our relationship with Him has been made real by believing in hat He has done for us.

The acceptance grace is where the stumbling block is for many of us.


We love the cross where we died with Him and now we look to the things above where we are with Him now.

Paul talks about this life in Him .....

Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above,( your new life in Christ ) where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above ( on what Christ has done for us and who we are as a new creation in Him), not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.


Merry Christmas to you and your family! Have a blessed time! You are deeply loved, highly favored and great blessed in Him


Hyper-grace failure

There is no condemnation is following Jesus because we are sons of God who are slaves to righteousness.

The reason why hyper-grace is heresy because love is no longer the focus, but grace in Christ.
This grace is now eternal life and only after the cross can it be found, and before the cross all was legalism and failure, but after freedom and success.

Legalism has always been failure because love of God and love of others has always been Gods way. Those who by faith in God received this walked in His grace, from the time of Adam to now.
Walking in righteousness has always been about a relationship with God.
Enoch knew God and he was not.

What we have after seeing Jesus is sight of how this love is ultimately expressed in the cross, where God humbled himself and said the sin done against him was forgiven if we walk in Jesus way.

Hyper-grace can change the gospel by putting all the restraining and doing ideas into legalism, and all the wealth, health, domination ideas into the grace doctrine.

The problem is this concept is flawed as the apostles called us to follow in Jesus commands, to the extent if we do not we are not filled with the Holy Spirit.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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LOL..now..there is the lie....I don't know how many times people here have said that grace is not lawlessness and it will not matter how many times we keep telling you the truth...you will not "hear" what we are saying...

keep making "straw-men".....keep making the false accusations...:cool:

This foolishness is getting hilarious!...

God love ya'....we do too!

You nailed it. Exactly as the gnostics used to think. Grace to New Grace believers is freedom from any constraints, i.e., lawlessness.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hyper-grace failure

There is no condemnation is following Jesus because we are sons of God who are slaves to righteousness.

The reason why hyper-grace is heresy because love is no longer the focus, but grace in Christ.
This grace is now eternal life and only after the cross can it be found, and before the cross all was legalism and failure, but after freedom and success.
You have this wrong.

Grace is the basis for love, without grace, there will never be love, You may think you love, But you love mans way, not Gods way, Thus it is a pseudo love which looks like it is from God, when in reality is is born in the flesh, Which can do no good. It is useless.


The pharisee proved a man can live with an outward appearance of moral values and Godlike character (The jews considered them so Godly, they did not dare go against them, because to do so would be to go against God, Even Mary was so afraid when Jesus went against them, She claimed he had an evil spirit to get him out..
 
Mar 20, 2015
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Eternally no. As for our 'ticket to heaven' that's a once in a lifetime event and in that realm no we are no longer sinners.
Before satan was cast out of God's spirit realm and thrown to this earth where did satan the devil reside? also, if there is a 'ticket to heaven' what was the actual point of the God of the Bible creating planet earth in the first place? why bother creating matter or living tissue if the ultimate residence is the spirit realm called heaven where God Himself resides?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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You have this wrong.

Grace is the basis for love, without grace, there will never be love, You may think you love, But you love mans way, not Gods way, Thus it is a pseudo love which looks like it is from God, when in reality is is born in the flesh, Which can do no good. It is useless. [/B]


The pharisee proved a man can live with an outward appearance of moral values and Godlike character (The jews considered them so Godly, they did not dare go against them, because to do so would be to go against God, Even Mary was so afraid when Jesus went against them, She claimed he had an evil spirit to get him out..[/B][/COLOR]
Grace is the expression of love. What you said here is that grace is greater than love, ie, it's foundation. Completely unbiblical.

And now these three [things] remain: faith, hope, [and] love. But the greatest of these [is] love. 1 Corinthians 13:13
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Grace is the expression of love. What you said here is that grace is greater than love, ie, it's foundation. Completely unbiblical.
And now these three [things] remain: faith, hope, [and] love. But the greatest of these [is] love. 1 Corinthians 13:13

The verse you showed compaired faith hope and love. Grace was not even mentioned

All three of those are based on Grace Grace is the love of God in action. If you have no comprehension or understanding of grace. You will have neither of those three

No hope. only fear (you may not get to heaven)
No faith, because there is no hope
No love, Because you have yet to taste the love of God (we love because he loved us)

Grace is the foundation, of my Love.. it is the outpouring of Gods love.. to me, yes, But without grace, I can not love or trust. period.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You have this wrong.

Grace is the basis for love, without grace, there will never be love, You may think you love, But you love mans way, not Gods way, Thus it is a pseudo love which looks like it is from God, when in reality is is born in the flesh, Which can do no good. It is useless.
There is no such thing as pseudo love. God is love, it is the very nature of who he is.
Humans are born in love, with love imprinted on their souls. Sin derives its power from hurt and betrayal of that love, because love separated from God dies.

Love exists outside of religion or definitions, it is eternal, the very foundation of the Universe. I used to think love was just part of my life and expression, until Jesus called me to pursue love above anything else. The reason for the cross was a statement of love, absolute, eternal all conquering love. If you put grace above love you have replaced God with universalism, where righteousness no longer matters and order has disappeared.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
There is no such thing as pseudo love. God is love, it is the very nature of who he is.
Humans are born in love, with love imprinted on their souls. Sin derives its power from hurt and betrayal of that love, because love separated from God dies.

Yeah Actually there is, Not from God, God is perfect Love, But from fleshly mankind? Yes there are all kinds of psuedo loves..


Love exists outside of religion or definitions, it is eternal, the very foundation of the Universe. I used to think love was just part of my life and expression, until Jesus called me to pursue love above anything else. The reason for the cross was a statement of love, absolute, eternal all conquering love. If you put grace above love you have replaced God with universalism, where righteousness no longer matters and order has disappeared.
Man kinds idea of love is self love, I will love you as long as I can benefit from doing so, it is selfish, and self serving, even if it doe snot look that way or the person does not see it.

Gods love is perfect. self sacrificial. Nothing can be compared to it

We love because God loved us first, If we have not experienced Gods love, Then we have no capacity to love.

Sin is serving self. and not serving God or others.

A non believer can only serve self. thats why he can not be righteous. He ust be born again first. That is accomplished by Grace, and the love of God only..

Out of that power. comes our faith hope and love.

without that, we can have no faith hope and love.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
So you're not sinless, you sin. If you sin are you too proud to be called a sinner/saint?
We are simultaneously saint and sinner.

I am who God says I am, and God says I am a saint. A totally forgiven, loved and accepted child of His. My sins do not define me, nor do they somehow change my identity. They do not change who I am in Christ.

There is no humbleness in seeing yourself as a sinner. If you are a sinner, then of course go sin, it's what a sinner does. It's their nature. But if you are a saint, it is your nature to not sin. When a saint sins they are acting contrary to who they are. Which is why all through the NT we are exhorted to be who we now are, and not the sinners we used to be.

It is not by seeing ourselves as sinners that we sin-less, it is by seeing ourselves as the new creations we now are in Christ. If we are saints then what are we doing wallowing around in the mud like the sinners we used to be?

Why indeed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am who God says I am, and God says I am a saint. A totally forgiven, loved and accepted child of His. My sins do not define me, nor do they somehow change my identity. They do not change who I am in Christ.

There is no humbleness in seeing yourself as a sinner. If you are a sinner, then of course go sin, it's what a sinner does. It's their nature. But if you are a saint, it is your nature to not sin. When a saint sins they are acting contrary to who they are. Which is why all through the NT we are exhorted to be who we now are, and not the sinners we used to be.

It is not by seeing ourselves as sinners that we sin-less, it is by seeing ourselves as the new creations we now are in Christ. If we are saints then what are we doing wallowing around in the mud like the sinners we used to be?

Why indeed.
They both need to go hand in hand, (in my view)

I am a sinner because I can not fulfill the law.

I am a saint, Because God made me a new creature.

If we do not see both, as I said earlier, we will risk falling into self righteousness, legalism, or licentiousness. Niether of which as a child of God is worth falling under. Because it takes us out of the spiritual war going around us, and makes us useless to God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen!..well said!

Such WERE some of you....we have new identities now in Christ...just like Paul talked about...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Know ye not that the unrighteous ( unbeliever..AKA sinner )shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, ( believer..AKA - saint ) but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I am who God says I am, and God says I am a saint. A totally forgiven, loved and accepted child of His. My sins do not define me, nor do they somehow change my identity. They do not change who I am in Christ.

There is no humbleness in seeing yourself as a sinner. If you are a sinner, then of course go sin, it's what a sinner does. It's their nature. But if you are a saint, it is your nature to not sin. When a saint sins they are acting contrary to who they are. Which is why all through the NT we are exhorted to be who we now are, and not the sinners we used to be.

It is not by seeing ourselves as sinners that we sin-less, it is by seeing ourselves as the new creations we now are in Christ. If we are saints then what are we doing wallowing around in the mud like the sinners we used to be?

Why indeed.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Yes the old and the new, the flesh and the Spirit. However He also said that those who walk in the spirit do not fulfill the dead's of the flesh.

Why, cause in Christ the flesh the old is crucified and we are made alive by the life of Jesus through the Spirit.
Well unfortunately no. The flesh is not eradicated at conversion.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Emotional logic

As humans if we have two similar concepts to balance, we will always side on the one that causes least internal conflict.
This means in christian history, those who hold prophecy, instant inspiration by the Spirit of God is the way to go, have tended away from structure or order into more fluid loose definitions of faith. They then regard the structure of others as the barrier why the others are not like them, and so the battle ensues on legalism or structure verses inspiration and leading.

It is pointless as both are true. Now for some this is not good enough, so they must invent theology to show they are right and the others are wrong.

To show how far out this heresy has progressed words like repentance, servant, slave have been removed and rejected.
Being humble before the Lord in trembling fear out of respect is replaced with arrogance and no restraint.

The problem is the ways of this world, the coveting of wealth and position, security in what we have and not what we are, presses very keenly, and those without restraint easily fall victim or never leave the world to enter this world of grace.

So bad is the idea of conviction of sin is now the work of the devil, and humbling oneself part of legalism.

Jesus humbled himself to the cross to show His love, through sacrifice and loss to gain for us the prize of eternal life, so like him we must sacrifice and walk the road of humbleness.

I do not hear this walk from them or victory over sin, which they are repenting of continuously. So rather than righteousness and grace, they have obtain fleshly exaltation and arrogance. In their confused immoral world, it is hard to wish anything for them, because everything is not working. The grace I speak of is not the grace they are speaking of, so our language never meets.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Amen!..well said!

Such WERE some of you....we have new identities now in Christ...just like Paul talked about...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Know ye not that the unrighteous ( unbeliever..AKA sinner )shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, ( believer..AKA - saint ) but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Thats right, such WERE we, BUT. Thank God for that holy but. ;)