Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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The United Church of Canada has had an openly gay person as their "head" for quite some time.
OTTAWA, August 23, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - An openly homosexual United Church minister from Vancouver was elected as the 41st moderator of the United Church of Canada at the Protestant denomination’s General Council meeting held at Ottawa’s Carleton University last week.
Rev. Gary Paterson of St Andrew’s-Wesley United Church in downtown Vancouver was elected from a field of 15 nominees on August 16 to become the first openly homosexual leader of a major Christian denomination in Canada.
OTTAWA, August 23, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - An openly homosexual United Church minister from Vancouver was elected as the 41st moderator of the United Church of Canada at the Protestant denomination’s General Council meeting held at Ottawa’s Carleton University last week.
Rev. Gary Paterson of St Andrew’s-Wesley United Church in downtown Vancouver was elected from a field of 15 nominees on August 16 to become the first openly homosexual leader of a major Christian denomination in Canada.
S
So you are able to allow yourself to discern that Paul was not demanding that one have children but that if he has children to rule them well. And therefore you must allow yourself to discern that Paul may have been saying that if you are married you must only be married to one wife. It is not intellectually honest to be inflexible that Paul is demanding marriage, but flexible that Paul is not demanding children in the same two connecting sentences.
Denominations that embrace homosexual clergy embraced many other sins many years ago, including the liberal theology that got them to that point. Ordaining women was not related. You can see that by observing the Assemblies of God, the most conservative of all the denominations demanding total abstinence of alcohol from their clergy and would not tolerate alcoholic deacons and elders which seem to be common in the SBC who do not ordain women. So comparing the SBC to the AOG there is a much more strict holiness emphasis in the AOG and yet they have ordained women since they began. Therefore using your logic the AOG would be an example of how ordaining women would lead to more holiness in the church. (I don't think that is true, I am just following your logic of observing the moral conditions of a denomination that ordains women)
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A single man brings a number of serious defects into the ministry. It is not advisable to place a single man into the demands and temptations that accompany a pastoral ministry.
There appears to be no limit to the lengths you are willing to go to justify behaviors that are not biblically sound. One sin does not justify another but they together point to a lack of knowledge of what God has determined to be righteous.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
There appears to be no limit to the lengths you are willing to go to justify behaviors that are not biblically sound. One sin does not justify another but they together point to a lack of knowledge of what God has determined to be righteous.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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S
That is not what Paul taught in 1 Cor 7. Therefore you are developing a philosophy of reasoning that is not in line with what Paul said about the benefits of being single as it related to undistracted devotion to the things of God. Paul therefore taught that it enhanced ones ability to give oneself to the Word of God and Prayer which was the emphasis for being a good minister.
Having experience with marriage and kids might help you counsel someone who is married and has kids but will never replace devotion to the Word of God and Prayer as being the chief concern of a good minister of the New Testament. And devoting yourself to the Word of God and Prayer by being free from the responsibilities of wife and family is something to be valued for the minister who has the gift of celibacy. That is what Paul taught and your not allowed to change it.
It is therefore not possible that Paul had in mind that an elder or deacon must be married.
Having experience with marriage and kids might help you counsel someone who is married and has kids but will never replace devotion to the Word of God and Prayer as being the chief concern of a good minister of the New Testament. And devoting yourself to the Word of God and Prayer by being free from the responsibilities of wife and family is something to be valued for the minister who has the gift of celibacy. That is what Paul taught and your not allowed to change it.
It is therefore not possible that Paul had in mind that an elder or deacon must be married.
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that was a foolish statement by a very unlearned person. To say
"A single man brings a number of serious defects into the ministry."
This was a point made as I see, to you from another posting. I have made a recommendation to Admin. I am sorry you would have to be attacked about your status of marriage or not being married.
"A single man brings a number of serious defects into the ministry."
This was a point made as I see, to you from another posting. I have made a recommendation to Admin. I am sorry you would have to be attacked about your status of marriage or not being married.
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S
I did not take it that way. The conversation has been about whether Paul was demanding that an elder be married. I don't think that he was insinuating that I personally would bring a number of serious defect into the ministry. Though I am probably seriously defected and need Jesus to be my ability for ministry. LOL
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Well, I did not see it that way. How can one be "defected" when they're called by God? we are not defective we are to be effective. There are many ministers who are single that were not married and Peter and those who were married spent great times away from the wives to do the work of God. Paul said I wish you were all as I (not Married) so one could do more for the kingdom of God. All young men should invest in the work of God prior to marriage because God expects you to take care of your family first. As Paul said.
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"feminine bias"
I just can't
I fairly asked you is this what you believe, that people in a church with a woman preacher are not saved or mostly not saved and just think they have the Holy Spirit? You said yea such church is dead, so you concurred, allowing for "a few sheep" to have been "caught in the situation" (thus the others in that church aren't sheep). Then call me biased when I reiterate your own belief to you?
I just can't
I fairly asked you is this what you believe, that people in a church with a woman preacher are not saved or mostly not saved and just think they have the Holy Spirit? You said yea such church is dead, so you concurred, allowing for "a few sheep" to have been "caught in the situation" (thus the others in that church aren't sheep). Then call me biased when I reiterate your own belief to you?
Not at all. You know that it is the division of the saved and the lost. Many who claim the name of Christ, claim it in name only. Many in the church today are not saved. They come for various reasons, whether that be for family, music and entertainment or other programs. Their true love for Christ and the things of God would be found wanting.
I concur with what notuptome said here: "Now if one pastors a church without the call of God then all the admonitions from scripture need not apply"
Many so called churches today are being pastored by individuals who have not been called by God. They are individuals who have taken it upon themselves as a "job", and in the near future may weary of this job. They may be products of a seminary but this does not mean they were called to preach. If a church is being led by one who has not been called, then Scripture ordinances would mean little to them. The same could be said for so called believers.
Perhaps we need to be reminded of what happened to Nadab and Abihu, when they tried to alter the proper way to worship and approach God.
Lev 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took each of them his censer, and put fire therein, and laid incense thereon, and offered strange fire before Jehovah, which he had not commanded them. And there came forth fire from before Jehovah, and devoured them, and they died before Jehovah.
Lev 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Let not the hair of your heads go loose, neither rend your clothes; that ye die not, and that he be not wroth with all the congregation: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which Jehovah hath kindled.
Now God is not likely to consume those who keep not His ordinances today. But this is a clear warning to all of us, that if we desire to worship and approach God, it must be done on His terms and keeping to all of His Ordinances and Commandments. Ignoring the prohibition of woman preachers, is a modern equivalent to offering "strange fire". It places the non called person in danger and can endanger the whole congregation. (v.6).
However, I do not agree with him, that women do not evangelize. All believers perform evangelistic works when they witness to another. Whether this be men or women, both are equally qualified.
Many so called churches today are being pastored by individuals who have not been called by God. They are individuals who have taken it upon themselves as a "job", and in the near future may weary of this job. They may be products of a seminary but this does not mean they were called to preach. If a church is being led by one who has not been called, then Scripture ordinances would mean little to them. The same could be said for so called believers.
Perhaps we need to be reminded of what happened to Nadab and Abihu, when they tried to alter the proper way to worship and approach God.
Lev 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took each of them his censer, and put fire therein, and laid incense thereon, and offered strange fire before Jehovah, which he had not commanded them. And there came forth fire from before Jehovah, and devoured them, and they died before Jehovah.
Lev 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Let not the hair of your heads go loose, neither rend your clothes; that ye die not, and that he be not wroth with all the congregation: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which Jehovah hath kindled.
Now God is not likely to consume those who keep not His ordinances today. But this is a clear warning to all of us, that if we desire to worship and approach God, it must be done on His terms and keeping to all of His Ordinances and Commandments. Ignoring the prohibition of woman preachers, is a modern equivalent to offering "strange fire". It places the non called person in danger and can endanger the whole congregation. (v.6).
However, I do not agree with him, that women do not evangelize. All believers perform evangelistic works when they witness to another. Whether this be men or women, both are equally qualified.
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Unless there are physiological reasons for not having children, marriage and children go together according to the Bible. And if a couple cannot have children because of physiology, then they can certain adopt children, since there are hundreds of children who need a good home. So it is not really ridiculous to expect a married couple to also have children.
S
That is a good example of how those who think that Paul banned women from positions of ministry in church are following the spirit of the Pharisees and using OT scripture to support their positions, as they do indeed seem to need a list of rules to pride themselves in keeping howbeit those rules are often extrabiblical traditions based on bad interpretation of scriptures they do not understand.
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