Are you a Romans 7 man or a Romans 8 man?

[Micaiah-imla]

this is something that is unclear to me and doesn't make sense when people talk about the old man being dead as if the flesh is a non-issue. It is most certainly still otherwise why would daily crucifixion of the flesh be in scripture?

I appreciate what you posted. It shows humility.

Paul said that he dies daily (1 Corinthians 15:31); every day he dies. If you are dead on a daily basis, how can the sin in a dead body manifest itself?

It cannot.

And those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires (Galatians 5:24).

This is how you come to understand Romans 7 and Romans 8.

 

[Runningman]

Are you really a Romans 7 wretched man?
Are you a prisoner of the law of sin and its slave? Ro 7:23
is the doing of the good not present in you only the wanting?
Are you stuck in that wretched state of man walking according to the flesh?
Does your being stuck in sin cause you fear death and judgement?

Are you really a Romans 8 overwhelmingly conquering man?
Are you freed from the law of sin by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus?
is the requirement of the Law being fulfilled in you?
Do you no longer walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit?
Does your living by the Spirit and putting to death the deeds of the body result in life and peace in the face of death and judgement?

It's honestly a bit of a oversimplification that someone is either or Romans 7 or Romans 8. It's still a good question but doesn't answer enough questions to form a complete thought.

To me this just sounds like spiritual growth and development. A babe and Christ may not be changed from as many degrees of glory to the next as a mature Christian. Both the new Christian and the mature Christian have the Holy Spirit in them and the promise of salvation.

The "walk of the flesh" is a reference to sin nature of people. A "walk of the Spirit" is a reference to our new conscience given to us by the Holy Spirit. We are instructed to consider ourselves dead, on a daily basis, but alive to Christ.

People do occasionally fail, but we can't stop there. We must also make sure people understand God's grace, their guaranteed salvation, and permanent forgiveness of sins through Christ's sin offering.

 

[Lion222]

It's honestly a bit of a oversimplification that someone is either or Romans 7 or Romans 8. It's still a good question but doesn't answer enough questions to form a complete thought.

To me this just sounds like spiritual growth and development. A babe and Christ may not be changed from as many degrees of glory to the next as a mature Christian. Both the new Christian and the mature Christian have the Holy Spirit in them and the promise of salvation.

The "walk of the flesh" is a reference to sin nature of people. A "walk of the Spirit" is a reference to our new conscience given to us by the Holy Spirit. We are instructed to consider ourselves dead, on a daily basis, but alive to Christ.

People do occasionally fail, but we can't stop there. We must also make sure people understand God's grace, their guaranteed salvation, and permanent forgiveness of sins through Christ's sin offering.

OK actually it is a collection of questions.
Each of them a complete thought...
Romans 7 man is a slave, without hope crying out who will deliver from from my slavery? The epitome of man under law.

You have to deny the very words in front of you to take it another way.

Is Paul still a slave to the law of sin? Has the blood of Christ failed to set him free from the law of sin and death?
is the doing of Good not present in the Apostle Paul?
There is a process of maturity of a believer but this is not it.
This is the state of a man under law, confronted with his sin but finding himself unable to do anything about it and crying out to God in his need of a saviour.

 

[Runningman]

OK actually it is a collection of questions.
Each of them a complete thought...
Romans 7 man is a slave, without hope crying out who will deliver from from my slavery? The epitome of man under law.

You have to deny the very words in front of you to take it another way.

Is Paul still a slave to the law of sin? Has the blood of Christ failed to set him free from the law of sin and death?
is the doing of Good not present in the Apostle Paul?
There is a process of maturity of a believer but this is not it.
This is the state of a man under law, confronted with his sin but finding himself unable to do anything about it and crying out to God in his need of a saviour.

Yes you're right. Thank you it's very good.

 

[posthuman]

You have to deny the very words in front of you to take it another way.

words like "it is no longer i who sin" ? written twice?
like "with my mind i serve God" or "in my inner being i delight in the law of God" ?

do you really think this describes the unregenerate enemy of God?

words like "we eagerly wait for the redemption of our bodies" or "who hopes for what they already have?"
or "the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness" ?

 

[posthuman]

Is it even slightly possible you might be wrong?

I could be mistaken; which is why I continue reading the holy scriptures frequently to seek correction on a constant basis (keeping in mind what people on these boards say).

So far my take on Roman 7 and Romans 8 (silly because there really isn't chapter numbers in scripture) has not been proven in error by scripture and prayer so far in 12 years.

Lol except for all the past month as we've talked about it.

Refusing correction does not count as not having been proven wrong.

 

[posthuman]

Because if you don't believe it is possible or that God can do it or that it is expected or necessary to start living for Gods glory

Which part of "it is no longer i who sin" or "with my mind i serve God" or "in my inner being i delight in the law of God" do you read and think, this means the person writing these things isn't living for God's glory?

 

[posthuman]

Is Paul still a slave to the law of sin? Has the blood of Christ failed to set him free from the law of sin and death?

Is Paul simply his flesh or is Paul a spiritual being?

Please revisit chapter 6, the first half of chapter 7 and all of chapter 8.

You talk about 'you'd have to deny the very words in front of you' but you are ironically indicating that you reject the very words in front of you. The latter half of Romans 7 is first person present tense and it is the direct result of all the things he has been writing in chapters 1-6 ——and chapter 8 is exactly the logical conclusion of chapters 6&7.

 

[Chester]

My theology of Romans 7 used to be that it was only representative of the person trying to attain salvation by works (law). The Christian lives according to Romans 8.

But when I became honest about my life, I realized I did not always match up to 100% all the time living by the Spirit. So when I was honest I realized the struggle of Romans 7 is part of what I was dealing with.

Is there victory for the believer and can we walk in Romans 8? Absolutely! But if and when we find ourselves honestly struggling in Romans 7 the answer is very clear: Jesus Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

The True Believer in Christ has no choice but to walk in Romans 8.

Because we know we are the Romans 7 man.


Romans 7 are statements of fact for the Believer. Romans 8 is the ONLY solution for this problem.

 

[Dino246]

I'm just waiting for one of our female contributors to step up and say,

"Neither!"

 

[oldethennew]

Post's building-block explanation is how we both understand the text...
we're baptized into Jesus Christ's death, and yet, there is still
the 'struggle' of over-coming, as Paul has taught us by
his own, personal, example -
ROMANS 8:1.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Thanks Post, for sharing your in-depth-Spiritual-knowledge...

 

[Nehemiah6]

I think I've seen some say that this is pre-conversion in Romans 7 and converted in Romans 8 but contextually that doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts?

The title of this thread falsely pits one chapter against another. But that is not how they should be understood. They are both referring to the same person -- the sinner saved by grace.

In chapter 7 Paul shows us that even though he is an outstanding apostle, his "flesh" (the sin nature) has not been eradicated: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (v 18)

This verse also tells us that the flesh cannot perform that which is good, since there is nothing good in the sin nature (inherited from Adam). And what is true for Paul is true for all believers. The flesh is still there, but needs to be crucified.

But in chapter 8, Paul shows us that the flesh cannot, and must not, dominate the believer, because of the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit to overcome sinful tendencies: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (vv 9-10)

 

[p_rehbein]

I'm a fisherman......sometimes I fish for fishies, sometimes I fish for men............

And, because not all men will accept His Grace, that's WHY it's called "fishing" and not "catching."

 

[oldethennew]

and just maybe that is one of the reasons that Dennis and me, Joannah love you so MUCH!!!

 

[posthuman]

Post's building-block explanation is how we both understand the text...
we're baptized into Jesus Christ's death, and yet, there is still
the 'struggle' of over-coming, as Paul has taught us by
his own, personal, example -
ROMANS 8:1.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Thanks Post, for sharing your in-depth-Spiritual-knowledge...

such insight, lol -- 6 comes before 7 and 8 is after that!
complex mathematics

it's that things are too amazing sometimes, that we have an hard time to accept them.



@Lion222 @Micaiah-imla it is this:

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. ​

(Galatians 5:25) ​

​

we do not have life because of how we walk. see chapters 1-5 again. ((they precede 6))
we walk in the way which we do, because He chose to give us life ((John 5:21)).
that life is distinct from the flesh. see 7. see John 6:63.

 

[Kim82]

Now it was on God to make it happen and me to believe him for it and it changed everything.

OK. So....are you perfect now?

 

[p_rehbein]

and just maybe that is one of the reasons that Dennis and me, Joannah love you so MUCH!!!

When one has good friends, can one doubt the Goodness of God?

 

[Lion222]

OK. So....are you perfect now?

Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude - Phl 3:15

Even if i was perfect I would not count myself as having made it.
But press on to obtain it expectantly from Gods hand.

 

[Lion222]

The title of this thread falsely pits one chapter against another. But that is not how they should be understood. They are both referring to the same person -- the sinner saved by grace.

In chapter 7 Paul shows us that even though he is an outstanding apostle, his "flesh" (the sin nature) has not been eradicated: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (v 18)

This verse also tells us that the flesh cannot perform that which is good, since there is nothing good in the sin nature (inherited from Adam). And what is true for Paul is true for all believers. The flesh is still there, but needs to be crucified.

But in chapter 8, Paul shows us that the flesh cannot, and must not, dominate the believer, because of the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit to overcome sinful tendencies: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (vv 9-10)

The are not.
For sinners saved by grace are no longer slaves to sin but the Romans 7 Wretched man is.
Only those still under law are slaves to sin. Those under grace are slaves to righteousness.

But there is another post for this.
If you want to disagree directly.