Are you really saved or do you just think you are? Exposing the lie of Easy Believism

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Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#61
So for you there is no difference between your mind and your heart?

What is the difference between a demons faith in Jesus and a believers?

Demons called Jesus the Son of God too.
Go study the word....it is the seat of intellect...not the organ that pumps blood!

and it does not say the demons had FAITH in JESUS and or the ability to be redeemed........talk about a stretch.....wow
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#62
James 2:19 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

New Living Translation
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

English Standard Version
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Berean Study Bible
You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!

Berean Literal Bible
You believe that God is one. You are doing well! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!

New American Standard Bible
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

King James Bible
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#63
James 2:19 Greek Text Analysis

πιστεύεις ►
Englishman's Concordance
πιστεύεις (pisteueis) — 8 Occurrences
John 1:50 V-PIA-2S
GRK: τῆς συκῆς πιστεύεις μείζω τούτων
NAS: the fig tree, do you believe? You will see
KJV: the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see
INT: the fig tree believe you Greater things than these

John 9:35 V-PIA-2S
GRK: εἶπεν Σὺ πιστεύεις εἰς τὸν
NAS: him, He said, Do you believe in the Son
KJV: Dost thou believe on the Son
INT: said You believe on the

John 11:26 V-PIA-2S
GRK: τὸν αἰῶνα πιστεύεις τοῦτο
NAS: die. Do you believe this?
KJV: never die. Believest thou this?
INT: the age Believe you this

John 14:10 V-PIA-2S
GRK: οὐ πιστεύεις ὅτι ἐγὼ
NAS: Do you not believe that I am in the Father,
KJV: Believest thou not that
INT: not Believe you that I [am]

Acts 8:37 V-PIA-2S
GRK: Φίλιππος Εἰ πιστεύεις ἐξ ὅλης
KJV: If thou believest with
INT: Philip If you believe from all

Acts 26:27 V-PIA-2S
GRK: πιστεύεις βασιλεῦ Ἀγρίππα
NAS: Agrippa, do you believe the Prophets?
KJV: Agrippa, believest thou the prophets?
INT: Believe you King Agrippa

Acts 26:27 V-PIA-2S
GRK: οἶδα ὅτι πιστεύεις
NAS: the Prophets? I know that you do.
KJV: I know that thou believest.
INT: I know that you believe

James 2:19 V-PIA-2S
GRK: σὺ πιστεύεις ὅτι εἷς
NAS: You believe that God is one.
KJV: Thou believest that there is
INT: You believe that one

Greek Concordance: πιστεύεις (pisteueis) -- 8 Occurrences
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#64
The Bible lists different types of faith and people believe in different things but I see that this has reached the limits of your patience.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#65
Mental assent without heart change is easy believism.

I know you don't believe it but some people have been fooled.

The word of Faith movement would be an example.
Yeah I'm not buying the "mental assent" argument either. That phrase has become the buzzwords for distorting the Gospel. The WHOLE purpose of the Gospel is for people to Believe WHO Jesus is, and WHAT Jesus has done. THEN God puts a new heart in them.

How are THEY suppose to give THEMSELVES a new heart?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#66
Yeah I'm not buying the "mental assent" argument either. That phrase has become the buzzwords for distorting the Gospel. The WHOLE purpose of the Gospel is for people to Believe WHO Jesus is, and WHAT Jesus has done. THEN God puts a new heart in them.

How are THEY suppose to give THEMSELVES a new heart?
Some people argue that God gives them a new heart first and then the person can understand and accept Jesus.

Does the order matter as much as the fact that God does give true believers new hearts to believe in the Gospel?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
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#67
So for you there is no difference between your mind and your heart?

What is the difference between a demons faith in Jesus and a believers?

Demons called Jesus the Son of God too.
This has also become a "go to" strawman argument. Yes I'm well aware of James admonition regarding demons and believing.

BUT, God did not become a demon in the flesh, they are not eligible for salvation. They also DO NOT LOVE. Jesus says we are to love Him and our neighbor. Does a demon love Jesus, OR HUMANS? THAT is the difference. God became a human being in the form of Jesus Christ. That is why WE can be saved by solely believing in Him.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,049
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#68
Some people argue that God gives them a new heart first and then the person can understand and accept Jesus.

Does the order matter as much as the fact that God does give true believers new hearts to believe in the Gospel?
I DO think believing and receiving are 2 different things, if that is what you are asking. That is why CONFESSING WITH YOUR MOUTH is so important.

There are those that know who Jesus is, but haven't confessed Him as Lord, asking Him to save them because of their sin.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#69
I DO think believing and receiving are 2 different things, if that is what you are asking. That is why CONFESSING WITH YOUR MOUTH is so important.

There are those that know who Jesus is, but haven't confessed Him as Lord, asking Him to save them because of their sin.
What about those who have heard a false gospel or believe in a false Jesus?

For example the false gospel of works salvation?

Or the false Jesus taught in Muslim or Mormon circles that deny that He is God?

What if easy believism refers to a belief system that teaches a false Jesus that doesn't lead people to overcome sin and shine God's light into the world,
 
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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#70
What about those who have heard a false gospel or believe in a false Jesus?

For example the false gospel of works salvation?

Or the false Jesus taught in Muslim or Mormon circles that deny that He is God?

What if easy believism refers to a belief system that teaches a false Jesus that is doesn't lead people to overcome sin and shine God's light into the world,
Well, unlike some of my other Christian brothers and sisters, I'm not sure those who believe, and have confessed, Jesus is Lord, God in the Flesh, and that He rose from the dead, after 3 days, yet think they need to do works, are disqualified from the resurrection to eternal life. I just don't know. Maybe they will be least in the Kingdom.

The muslims and mormons are a much easier question. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus is God in the Flesh, which is a vital, indispensable element of the Gospel. Therefore I believe they ARE disqualified.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#71
You are gracious to reply PennEd, but the questions are really non-starters.

Well, unlike some of my other Christian brothers and sisters, I'm not sure those who believe, and have confessed, Jesus is Lord, God in the Flesh, and that He rose from the dead, after 3 days, yet think they need to do works, are disqualified from the resurrection to eternal life. I just don't know. Maybe they will be least in the Kingdom.

The muslims and mormons are a much easier question. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus is God in the Flesh, which is a vital, indispensable element of the Gospel. Therefore I believe they ARE disqualified.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#72
Well, unlike some of my other Christian brothers and sisters, I'm not sure those who believe, and have confessed, Jesus is Lord, God in the Flesh, and that He rose from the dead, after 3 days, yet think they need to do works, are disqualified from the resurrection to eternal life. I just don't know. Maybe they will be least in the Kingdom.

The muslims and mormons are a much easier question. They CERTAINLY do not believe Jesus is God in the Flesh, which is a vital, indispensable element of the Gospel. Therefore I believe they ARE disqualified.
is that mean you believe AS long AS you believe in Jesus No matter what you do, you save?

Say I am Christian and my job is rob the bank and killing. I go to heaven though i am Miller, but believe in Jesus
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#73
Better to ask the right questions. Nicodemus had the rights questions and Jesus answered.




is that mean you believe AS long AS you believe in Jesus No matter what you do, you save?

Say I am Christian and my job is rob the bank and killing. I go to heaven though i am Miller, but believe in Jesus
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
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#75
This has also become a "go to" strawman argument. Yes I'm well aware of James admonition regarding demons and believing.

BUT, God did not become a demon in the flesh, they are not eligible for salvation. They also DO NOT LOVE. Jesus says we are to love Him and our neighbor. Does a demon love Jesus, OR HUMANS? THAT is the difference. God became a human being in the form of Jesus Christ. That is why WE can be saved by solely believing in Him.
Hi Ed,

It seems to me that James is sharing a contrast here - on one hand we have a person who said he has faith, but without works following (no proof of salvation) and another person who has faith and lives out his faith producing works.

So within that contrast, James brings in demons as a comparison with the person without works.

James makes a comparison of their faith with the demons faith as an example that it's of no value. Their faith and the demons faith is one in the same that doesn't have works to follow and they will in the end be like the demons who shudder.

The demons belief is an actual knowing that God is One. They've seen God, they've been with Him and enjoyed the blessing of fellowship with Him and were there when He created the heavens and the earth ...... and they know by eyesight that there is a God. Their belief is empty and void, it produces no works of faith because it can't.

James says that those who have faith without works, that it's no better than the demons that believe that God is One. They have nothing to brag about just because they have a belief in God. Their faith is not a faith unto salvation, their faith is shallow and will lead them to shake in their boots like the demons because they will come under God's wrath.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#76
Hi Ed,

It seems to me that James is sharing a contrast here - on one hand we have a person who said he has faith, but without works following (no proof of salvation) and another person who has faith and lives out his faith producing works.

So within that contrast, James brings in demons as a comparison with the person without works.

James makes a comparison of their faith with the demons faith as an example that it's of no value. Their faith and the demons faith is one in the same that doesn't have works to follow and they will in the end be like the demons who shudder.

The demons belief is an actual knowing that God is One. They've seen God, they've been with Him and enjoyed the blessing of fellowship with Him and were there when He created the heavens and the earth ...... and they know by eyesight that there is a God. Their belief is empty and void, it produces no works of faith because it can't.

James says that those who have faith without works, that it's no better than the demons that believe that God is One. They have nothing to brag about just because they have a belief in God. Their faith is not a faith unto salvation, their faith is shallow and will lead them to shake in their boots like the demons because they will come under God's wrath.
yep there are 2 kind of faith. True faith is the faith that besar fruit.

fruir not produce salvation, but faith Will produce fruit If the time allow.

say one accept Jesus and die instantly he is save because salvation is by faith. He do not have a time to produce fruit

but If he Lives l 4years after that, he Will besar fruit. If he was killer, now he do not kill anymore.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#77
Hi Ed,

It seems to me that James is sharing a contrast here - on one hand we have a person who said he has faith, but without works following (no proof of salvation) and another person who has faith and lives out his faith producing works.

So within that contrast, James brings in demons as a comparison with the person without works.

James makes a comparison of their faith with the demons faith as an example that it's of no value. Their faith and the demons faith is one in the same that doesn't have works to follow and they will in the end be like the demons who shudder.

The demons belief is an actual knowing that God is One. They've seen God, they've been with Him and enjoyed the blessing of fellowship with Him and were there when He created the heavens and the earth ...... and they know by eyesight that there is a God. Their belief is empty and void, it produces no works of faith because it can't.

James says that those who have faith without works, that it's no better than the demons that believe that God is One. They have nothing to brag about just because they have a belief in God. Their faith is not a faith unto salvation, their faith is shallow and will lead them to shake in their boots like the demons because they will come under God's wrath.

Darkness versus Light

john 3:18-21 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

but he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

psalm 119:130 "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]psalms 80:16-17 " [/FONT]Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou

madest strong for thyself.
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] So will not we go back from thee:[/FONT] quicken us, and we will call upon thy name."


[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]john 6:63 "[/FONT]It is the spirit that quickeneth[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]; the flesh profiteth nothing: [/FONT]the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

john 8:31-32 "
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

john 8:51 "
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]isaiah 59:20-21 "And [/FONT]the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]in Jacob, saith the LORD.As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall n[/FONT]ot depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus was always promised to come with the Light of Gods Judgements in the fullness of His Word, with His spirit to offer in His power and authority. the messiah and His message of light the gospel. its mostly what the old testament is about. even the Law holds promises for Jesus. [/FONT]

Deuteroinmy 18:17-19 " And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ( see acts 3, and 7)[/FONT]I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], like unto thee, and [/FONT]will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]( John 8:26-28)[/FONT]19[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And it shall come to pass, [/FONT]that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, (john 12:48-50) I will require it of him.




john 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."









 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#78
James 2:19 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

New Living Translation
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

English Standard Version
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Berean Study Bible
You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!

Berean Literal Bible
You believe that God is one. You are doing well! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!

New American Standard Bible
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

King James Bible
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Yep....does not say they have faith IN JESUS as the SAVIOR OF MANKIND<--KEY WORD and or can be redeemed.........
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#80
Yep....does not say they have faith IN JESUS as the SAVIOR OF MANKIND<--KEY WORD and or can be redeemed.........
Now we are just going into semantics. That is the whole point..,some people say they have faith but don't really believe (as in trust) Jesus for their salvation.


******
◄ Luke 4:41 ►
New International Version
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.

New Living Translation
Many were possessed by demons; and the demons came out at his command, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But because they knew he was the Messiah, he rebuked them and refused to let them speak.

English Standard Version
And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

Berean Study Bible
Demons also came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God." But He rebuked the demons and would not allow them to speak, because they knew He was the Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
And demons also were going out from many, crying out and saying, "You are the Son of God." And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

New American Standard Bible
Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

King James Bible
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.