Are you really saved or do you just think you are? Exposing the lie of Easy Believism

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Dec 12, 2013
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#81
Now we are just going into semantics. That is the whole point..,some people say they have faith but don't really believe (as in trust) Jesus for their salvation.


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◄ Luke 4:41 ►
New International Version
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.

New Living Translation
Many were possessed by demons; and the demons came out at his command, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But because they knew he was the Messiah, he rebuked them and refused to let them speak.

English Standard Version
And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

Berean Study Bible
Demons also came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God." But He rebuked the demons and would not allow them to speak, because they knew He was the Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
And demons also were going out from many, crying out and saying, "You are the Son of God." And rebuking them, He did not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

New American Standard Bible
Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

King James Bible
And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
You cannot apply what the demons and devils say.....it is not indicative of SAVING FAITH which is what is being discussed.....we are discussing LOST MEN and saving FAITH...either one has it or they do not have it.....there is NO in between and that is the point......
 
V

vl

Guest
#82
If you believe that you can go on living like the devil after putting your faith in Jesus Christ and not worry about Gods wrath, then you obviously do not know the truth.

Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith

Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."



Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
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#83
If you believe that you can go on living like the devil after putting your faith in Jesus Christ and not worry about Gods wrath, then you obviously do not know the truth.

Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith

Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."



Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
Great another worker for.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.........

NO ONE believes what you espouse above and no one has said or implied what you espouse above.......spend some time reading what people believe before you ascribe the above to anyone....it seems to be a characteristic trait of those who believe their works and adherence to the law is what FINISHES off their salvation.....

I suggest Galatians 1 and 3<----FAITH plus WORKS of ANY SORT to finish off or maintain salvation = false gospel, no power, double cursed and those who believe it are called fools and bewitched....

end of story!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#84
You cannot apply what the demons and devils say.....it is not indicative of SAVING FAITH which is what is being discussed.....we are discussing LOST MEN and saving FAITH...either one has it or they do not have it.....there is NO in between and that is the point......
Agreed. The scripture actually says, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." The demons believe that there is one God, nothing about trusting in the cross of Christ for sins.
 
V

vl

Guest
#85
Woah! Calm down, matey. I wasn't pointing to anyone in this forum but giving my biblical opinion on the forum topic.

Has God not called us unto good works? Or are we to go on sinning? Not once did I mention anything about works..

Maybe take your own advice and not jump the gun next time.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#86
Agreed. The scripture actually says, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." The demons believe that there is one God, nothing about trusting in the cross of Christ for sins.
Amen! The demons believe that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#87
Woah! Calm down, matey. I wasn't pointing to anyone in this forum but giving my biblical opinion on the forum topic.

Has God not called us unto good works? Or are we to go on sinning? Not once did I mention anything about works..

Maybe take your own advice and not jump the gun next time.
The basis of your argument is the same thing said and pushed by all workers for on this site MATE.....the BUT seems to indicate <---same words I used in my quote above bro.....and again NO ONE who believes in grace dia faith eternal salvation states we can live like the "DEBIL"

Peace bro!

YOUR quote

Originally Posted by vl
If you believe that you can go on living like the devil after putting your faith in Jesus Christ and not worry about Gods wrath, then you obviously do not know the truth.

Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith

Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."



Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,873
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#88
Woah! Calm down, matey. I wasn't pointing to anyone in this forum but giving my biblical opinion on the forum topic.

Has God not called us unto good works? Or are we to go on sinning? Not once did I mention anything about works..

Maybe take your own advice and not jump the gun next time.
in the same sense, no one here is saying it is o.k. to sin. just because someone does not rail against sin all the time does not mean one thinks it is no big deal. if I am not protesting outside an abortion clinic everyday, that does not mean I am pro abortion.....
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#89
Trying to live by our own self-effort in order to create and maintain our own righteousness - is also living like the devil just the same as any other type of sinning.

The truth is of the gospel is there is no wrath of God for the believer that is in Christ. It is vitally important to get the "gospel" right to begin with.

Romans 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


John 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#90
in the same sense, no one here is saying it is o.k. to sin. just because someone does not rail against sin all the time does not mean one thinks it is no big deal. if I am not protesting outside an abortion clinic everyday, that does not mean I am pro abortion.....
I want so bad for believers to live in the victorious life and do the good works that God has created us to do. I would like one day to go by where I do not sin in thought or deed, but this old flesh that I'm in makes it difficult most of the time. I am such a selfish creature. It's not until the life to come, where I'll finally be able to say, "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,756
3,562
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#91
Trying to live by our own self-effort in order to create and maintain our own righteousness - is also living like the devil just the same as any other type of sinning.

The truth is of the gospel is there is no wrath of God for the believer that is in Christ. It is vitally important to get the "gospel" right to begin with.

Romans 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


John 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

My confidence is knowing that the same Jesus who is the author of my faith, will also be the finisher of my faith. He began it. He will finish it.
 
V

vl

Guest
#92
The basis of your argument is the same thing said and pushed by all workers for on this site MATE.....the BUT seems to indicate <---same words I used in my quote above bro.....and again NO ONE who believes in grace dia faith eternal salvation states we can live like the "DEBIL"

Peace bro!

YOUR quote

Originally Posted by vl
If you believe that you can go on living like the devil after putting your faith in Jesus Christ and not worry about Gods wrath, then you obviously do not know the truth.

Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith

Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."



Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
I hope you will forgive me if I have upset you over my opinion. We don't always have to agree on the same things, so lets jus leave it at that.
God bless you.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,756
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#93
I want so bad for believers to live in the victorious life and do the good works that God has created us to do. I would like one day to go by where I do not sin in thought or deed, but this old flesh that I'm in makes it difficult most of the time. I am such a selfish creature. It's not until the life to come, where I'll finally be able to say, "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
As a matter of fact, there are things for the Lord I should be doing right now with my time rather be here on this board. Just saying...
 
V

vl

Guest
#94
Trying to live by our own self-effort in order to create and maintain our own righteousness - is also living like the devil just the same as any other type of sinning.

The truth is of the gospel is there is no wrath of God for the believer that is in Christ. It is vitally important to get the "gospel" right to begin with.

Romans 5:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


John 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

I never mentioned my own works or efforts. But okay, if thats what you believe, then thats what you believe.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#95
I never mentioned my own works or efforts. But okay, if thats what you believe, then thats what you believe.
I am just speaking in general concerning works and wrath and the believer that is in fact in Christ and Christ is in them. Only God who knows our hearts knows us and what we are truly living by. Bless you...:)
 
V

vl

Guest
#96
I am just speaking in general concerning works and wrath and the believer that is in fact in Christ and Christ is in them. Only God who knows our hearts knows us and what we are truly living by. Bless you...:)
okay, my bad. God bless you too.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#97
WWJD, the word "believe" in that passage needs to be clearly defined in order to understand the biblical author's intended meaning. Often times, our English translation is incapable of truly capturing the meaning of a passage written in either Hebrew or Greek.

I would argue that, for a person to truly believe in Christ, one must also believe Christ. That a believer in Christ would adhere to Christ's teaching, following his instruction.
How long? How often?

If I stray for a day am I unsaved? What about a month? or even a year?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#98
and will add....any change to the HEART is a process of sanctification after salvation (Romans 12:1-2)

It takes a child like faith to be saved and then a process of growth and maturity to change the believer into the image of Christ....
Well said.... many people think that one simply "becomes" Christ-like when they are saved.... forgetting that one does not become a wise adult at birth.

It is the process of growing... of learning and practicing adult behavior, that leads us to being a mature adult.

If a child simply exists, that child will never become an adult. They might grow physically, but they will always be a child, mentally and emotionally.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#99
Hi Ed,

It seems to me that James is sharing a contrast here - on one hand we have a person who said he has faith, but without works following (no proof of salvation) and another person who has faith and lives out his faith producing works.

So within that contrast, James brings in demons as a comparison with the person without works.

James makes a comparison of their faith with the demons faith as an example that it's of no value. Their faith and the demons faith is one in the same that doesn't have works to follow and they will in the end be like the demons who shudder.

The demons belief is an actual knowing that God is One. They've seen God, they've been with Him and enjoyed the blessing of fellowship with Him and were there when He created the heavens and the earth ...... and they know by eyesight that there is a God. Their belief is empty and void, it produces no works of faith because it can't.

James says that those who have faith without works, that it's no better than the demons that believe that God is One. They have nothing to brag about just because they have a belief in God. Their faith is not a faith unto salvation, their faith is shallow and will lead them to shake in their boots like the demons because they will come under God's wrath.
Hi Desertrose. Good point. I think James IS making a contrast, but that doesn't really address the fact that Jesus wasn't a demon, and didn't die for them. They also DO NOT love, which is a Fruit, not a work, of the Holy Spirit.

The classic example of a workless, yet Fruitful, SAVED Christian, is the thief on the Cross. He had NO works, only faith in his declaration of who Jesus is. Yet he continues to produce Fruit. How many prisoners have come to the Lord because of his example?

I don't believe this absolves Christians from doing good works, but those good works must not be blurred with the idea that they are necessary for salvation.

I believe you can be a workless, even sinning, saved Christian, BUT I GUARANTEE, if you have been saved, given a new heart, and are a new creation,YOU WILL BE A MISERABLE person. God will not leave you in that state. Either your'e His child, and He will do what's necessary to draw you back to Him, or you are not, and He will eventually harden your heart. I don't think you can grieve the Holy Spirit without consequence. I unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, am a living testament to that fact.

Love Him. Love each other. Let Him work in you to do the works He made you to do.
 
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Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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Hi Ed, I'll comment in blue within your text. :)

Hi Desertrose. Good point. I think James IS making a contrast, but that doesn't really address the fact that Jesus wasn't a demon, and didn't die for them. They also DO NOT love, which is a Fruit, not a work, of the Holy Spirit.

As I was reading some of the posts, I don't believe that Ariel was inferring that Jesus was a demon, nor that He died for them. If I'm wrong than I apologize ahead of time. Sometimes we all misunderstand what's being said.

It's just that I didn't read any of that in Ariel's posts. :) I didn't see her saying demons love either. She was trying to make the point that James was showing two types of faith and only one is genuine.


The classic example of a workless, yet Fruitful, SAVED Christian, is the thief on the Cross. He had NO works, only faith in his declaration of who Jesus is. Yet he continues to produce Fruit. How many prisoners have come to the Lord because of his example?

I don't believe this absolves Christians from doing good works, but those good works must not be blurred with the idea that they are necessary for salvation.

This is where I get really confused. I almost feel like, because of the way some respond, work or obey becomes a four letter word.

Some seem to want to tiptoe around the word 'works' in fear that they'll be tagged with some type of spiritual disease. Jesus said that works will follow, obedience will follow, fruit will follow.

I'll use a scripture out of 1 Peter since that's what I'm studying at the moment, but there are many scriptures that tell us that genuine faith is NOT PERFECTION, but a new creation in Christ will work, will obey, will produce fruit.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. 1 Peter 1:1-2

Here Peter is telling us that we're chosen TO OBEY. Being saved by grace through faith is righteous. We've been removed from the kingdom of darkness and placed into the kingdom of light. We're a chosen
generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people to show forth the praises of Him who has brought us out of darkness, into His marvelous light.

The old man and the new man have drastic differing characteristics. Even the thief on the cross had a change of heart. Had he lived he would have continued on in the faith....the faith that works.


I believe you can be a workless, even sinning, saved Christian, BUT I GUARANTEE, if you have been saved, given a new heart, and are a new creation,YOU WILL BE A MISERABLE person. God will not leave you in that state. Either your'e His child, and He will do what's necessary to draw you back to Him, or you are not, and He will eventually harden your heart. I don't think you can grieve the Holy Spirit without consequence. I unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, am a living testament to that fact.

I agree that a true believer can get caught up in sin. We have David as a perfect example of that. But the true believer can't stay in a sinful lifestyle. Eventually they'll repent and return to the Lord. And this is how we need to teach.

If we love others, we can't look the other way if they're in fellowship. We must
address sin and remove the one who is living a sinful lifestyle from among us if they refuse to repent for the purpose of repentance and reconciliation. And that goes for the liar, the gossiper, the sexually immoral, the drunkard.......whatever.

Love Him. Love each other. Let Him work in you to do the works He made you to do.

Yes and Amen. Love the brother enough to go to him when you see a brother/sister caught up in sin. Love them back into the truth by being willing to be used as God would have us........speak the truth in love for the purpose of regaining your brother back.
​Do you personally know of someone who says they believe and are saved and are living their life in habitual sin?