Are you RIGHTEOUS?
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If you have an imaginary salvation then it is true you can never lose it.
The real question is when someone promises something how is it confirmed?
Jesus implies if the storms come and winds blow and you find yourself still standing, you
are standing on the rock and have built your house on Gods principles.
Now you may notice those who knew faith, fell away for whatever reason, their house
collapsed and they had failed to build on the rock but on the sand and the building collapsed.
Now standing in the middle of ones collapsed building and then saying this was self righteousness
that failed, rather than disobedience, is the mistake you guys are making.
But then you are now truly saved, which is shown by the fact you no longer want to build on
the rock, but stay a fallen down building, because from your experience you believe if you build
the building it will just fail.
Well guys, if you had listened to start with, and actually repented and believed and obeyed you
would not have collapsed. I now wonder if there is a way back, or your state by implication is
permanent. I think for many, based on your behaviour it must be permanent, because nothing I
say or Jesus says will change your minds, because your explanation is the only version that makes
sense for you.
The real question is when someone promises something how is it confirmed?
Jesus implies if the storms come and winds blow and you find yourself still standing, you
are standing on the rock and have built your house on Gods principles.
Now you may notice those who knew faith, fell away for whatever reason, their house
collapsed and they had failed to build on the rock but on the sand and the building collapsed.
Now standing in the middle of ones collapsed building and then saying this was self righteousness
that failed, rather than disobedience, is the mistake you guys are making.
But then you are now truly saved, which is shown by the fact you no longer want to build on
the rock, but stay a fallen down building, because from your experience you believe if you build
the building it will just fail.
Well guys, if you had listened to start with, and actually repented and believed and obeyed you
would not have collapsed. I now wonder if there is a way back, or your state by implication is
permanent. I think for many, based on your behaviour it must be permanent, because nothing I
say or Jesus says will change your minds, because your explanation is the only version that makes
sense for you.
For those that like to feed themselves on Christ. I highly recommend this teaching on how Jacob became Israel. Things in the Old Testament speak of the real substance which is Christ Himself.
It speaks of living from the flesh or living from the spirit which what God says is true about us because of Christ being in us. Without Him we can do nothing.
Jacob and his twin brother Isaac are an example of the Christian life - one is of the flesh - the other is of the new creation when it becomes "Israel".
This teaching shows how we are transformed by "beholding Christ in our inner man". It is a work of the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ Himself. It is one of the ways of God in which the kingdom operates from.
The fruit of this will produce good works coming from His life being manifested in and through us as we participate in it with the Lord.
Here is the link
Seeing Grace: Audio Archive
And here is the specific teaching I am referring to. Click on the blue link below.
James Barron
Experiencing Life in a Different Dimension
Sunday, May 9, 2010 9:30am
Duration: 37:02 (35.6MB) mp3
It speaks of living from the flesh or living from the spirit which what God says is true about us because of Christ being in us. Without Him we can do nothing.
Jacob and his twin brother Isaac are an example of the Christian life - one is of the flesh - the other is of the new creation when it becomes "Israel".
This teaching shows how we are transformed by "beholding Christ in our inner man". It is a work of the Holy Spirit as we behold Christ Himself. It is one of the ways of God in which the kingdom operates from.
The fruit of this will produce good works coming from His life being manifested in and through us as we participate in it with the Lord.
Here is the link
Seeing Grace: Audio Archive
And here is the specific teaching I am referring to. Click on the blue link below.
James Barron
Experiencing Life in a Different Dimension
Sunday, May 9, 2010 9:30am
Duration: 37:02 (35.6MB) mp3
"Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
Jesus is the true and living way...end of story....the bible is clear....there is but ONE door, not 2, 3 or 50....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE
He that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life
With the MIND man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.
NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
It is either works or GRACE and if GRACE it is not of works.
The narrow way is FAITH into the finished work of Christ on one's behalf....the follow is the way to OBTAIN eternal life and salvation in Christ (bolded)
Jesus + faith = eternal salvation the NARROW WAY
Jesus + faith + works= false gospel described in Galatians and a DIFFERENT DOOR no power (wide path)
JESUS + ANYTHING = a different door (wide path)
Religion of any sort = a different door and (wide path)
Jesus is the true and living way...end of story....the bible is clear....there is but ONE door, not 2, 3 or 50....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE
He that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life
With the MIND man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.
NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
It is either works or GRACE and if GRACE it is not of works.
The narrow way is FAITH into the finished work of Christ on one's behalf....the follow is the way to OBTAIN eternal life and salvation in Christ (bolded)
Jesus + faith = eternal salvation the NARROW WAY
Jesus + faith + works= false gospel described in Galatians and a DIFFERENT DOOR no power (wide path)
JESUS + ANYTHING = a different door (wide path)
Religion of any sort = a different door and (wide path)
Well,
Here it is. Correctly done.
Would you like to do the same?
Feel up to it?
What I wrote is the truth...
YOU said that verse 14 was referring to those adding works.
Adding works is not a different gospel, it is THE gospel since it's what Jesus asked of us.
END OF STORY.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Matthew 7:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
òòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòò
verse 13
The way is broad. Many look for shortcuts to get to God. But there aren't any. We have to get to God by God's way.
Many seek easy ways to get to God. There are none, as shown by the last statement of jesus when He banishes some who thought they were doing His works.
verse 14
The way to God is narrow. We shouldn't listen to false Teachers who make every attempt to make it seem simple. The way is sometimes difficult and we need to pay attention to keep on the narrow road at all times.
verse 15
It's not important what "preachers" say but what they do. They make believe they are nice, but inside they are not. They are wolves in sheep's clothing and will ruin you if you let them.
Dont' look for charisma... Look for GOOD CHARACTER.
verse 16
And who do we know which are the good preachers? By their fruit. Grapes are not gathered in thorn bushes nor figs from thistles. Those who say to do good works achieve good works, those who say they're not important will NOT achieve good works.
verse 17
Good trees produce good fruit.
Bad trees produce bad fruit.
HOW ARE THE FRUIT OF THE ONE YOU ARE FOLLOWING??
verse 18
a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce GOOD fruit.
verse 19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is CUT DOWN and thrown into the FIRE. Self-explanatory. It IS OF NO USE to the Kingdom of God.
verse 20
You will now Teachers by their fruit.
verse 21
Not everyone who says MASTER, MASTER will get a person into heaven, BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OFTHE FATHER.
That's the one who OBEYS God and obeys Jesus words when He preached on earth. God ALWAYS demanded obedience and He still does !
verse 22
Many will go up to Jesus telling Him they prophesied in His namem, or cast out a Demon, but Jesus will know they were not sincere and did this only to please themselves, and He will declare that he never knew them. Jesus NEVER SAID that it was only our belief in Him that would save us, so we have to exegete this passage with that in mind. This passage does not refer to thsoe who were not saved. Jesus NEVER expressed salvation in this way...
IF you believe He did, please show this biblically...
verse 23
Jesus will not know them, because they did not do good works,
the practiced LAWLESSNESS, as some versions say, or EVIL DOING as the NIV says.
So you see Dcon, Jesus is not speaking about those who are adding their works...
HE IS DEMANDING THAT THEY DO WORKS.
If you don't agree,...
please exegete these verses.
Thanks.
Here it is. Correctly done.
Would you like to do the same?
Feel up to it?
What I wrote is the truth...
YOU said that verse 14 was referring to those adding works.
Adding works is not a different gospel, it is THE gospel since it's what Jesus asked of us.
END OF STORY.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Matthew 7:13-23 New International Version (NIV)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
òòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòòò
verse 13
The way is broad. Many look for shortcuts to get to God. But there aren't any. We have to get to God by God's way.
Many seek easy ways to get to God. There are none, as shown by the last statement of jesus when He banishes some who thought they were doing His works.
verse 14
The way to God is narrow. We shouldn't listen to false Teachers who make every attempt to make it seem simple. The way is sometimes difficult and we need to pay attention to keep on the narrow road at all times.
verse 15
It's not important what "preachers" say but what they do. They make believe they are nice, but inside they are not. They are wolves in sheep's clothing and will ruin you if you let them.
Dont' look for charisma... Look for GOOD CHARACTER.
verse 16
And who do we know which are the good preachers? By their fruit. Grapes are not gathered in thorn bushes nor figs from thistles. Those who say to do good works achieve good works, those who say they're not important will NOT achieve good works.
verse 17
Good trees produce good fruit.
Bad trees produce bad fruit.
HOW ARE THE FRUIT OF THE ONE YOU ARE FOLLOWING??
verse 18
a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce GOOD fruit.
verse 19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is CUT DOWN and thrown into the FIRE. Self-explanatory. It IS OF NO USE to the Kingdom of God.
verse 20
You will now Teachers by their fruit.
verse 21
Not everyone who says MASTER, MASTER will get a person into heaven, BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OFTHE FATHER.
That's the one who OBEYS God and obeys Jesus words when He preached on earth. God ALWAYS demanded obedience and He still does !
verse 22
Many will go up to Jesus telling Him they prophesied in His namem, or cast out a Demon, but Jesus will know they were not sincere and did this only to please themselves, and He will declare that he never knew them. Jesus NEVER SAID that it was only our belief in Him that would save us, so we have to exegete this passage with that in mind. This passage does not refer to thsoe who were not saved. Jesus NEVER expressed salvation in this way...
IF you believe He did, please show this biblically...
verse 23
Jesus will not know them, because they did not do good works,
the practiced LAWLESSNESS, as some versions say, or EVIL DOING as the NIV says.
So you see Dcon, Jesus is not speaking about those who are adding their works...
HE IS DEMANDING THAT THEY DO WORKS.
If you don't agree,...
please exegete these verses.
Thanks.
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Galatians 1 and 3 Faith plus works to get, keep or maintain salvation is false, no power and double cursed.........
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save the that BELIEVE<----this is faith and No works mentioned.....
and how many times do we have to remind you that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT.............WORKS do NOT SAVE or KEEP SAVED.....END of story!
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save the that BELIEVE<----this is faith and No works mentioned.....
and how many times do we have to remind you that Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED the NEW COVENANT.............WORKS do NOT SAVE or KEEP SAVED.....END of story!
You can't do it.
It's unbelievable.
You INSIST that works are not necessary.
Galatians doesn't even work if you exegete it.
If I had the time I'd do the Whole book!
You can't do it because you're not right.
You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
Do something different.
Go over what JESUS said in Mathew and show how works do not KEEP ONE SAVED.
It's unbelievable.
You INSIST that works are not necessary.
Galatians doesn't even work if you exegete it.
If I had the time I'd do the Whole book!
You can't do it because you're not right.
You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
Do something different.
Go over what JESUS said in Mathew and show how works do not KEEP ONE SAVED.
I wonder if people are confusing two ideas.
A gate, which is a beginning of a path.
Now I can say, Jesus is the gate and still miss Him.
There is more than just a name, it is something about what He represents, an approach to
life, reality, what is significant and what is not.
So wealth, status, knowledge, history, birth are all irrelevant.
Love, openness, truth, service, sincerity, purity, faithfulness, humbleness, sorrow, pain,
righteousness, sin, meekness, peacemaking, these are what matters.
So if you know Jesus, what He represents is all these things by who He is and by what
He is doing.
Now this is not what I get as a picture of Jesus people are bringing when they say,
no sorrow for sin, no working it through, no turning from sin, or dedication to not repeat,
no openly admitting what the sin is, and no following and listening intently to what Jesus
is saying. But all these things are inherent in the apostles as reflected in their letters
and the earliest catechism "The Didache" the teaching of the 12 apostles.
So there is one gate, but it seems some have definately not found it, and are striding
on on their imaginary path that is only going their way and not Gods.
A gate, which is a beginning of a path.
Now I can say, Jesus is the gate and still miss Him.
There is more than just a name, it is something about what He represents, an approach to
life, reality, what is significant and what is not.
So wealth, status, knowledge, history, birth are all irrelevant.
Love, openness, truth, service, sincerity, purity, faithfulness, humbleness, sorrow, pain,
righteousness, sin, meekness, peacemaking, these are what matters.
So if you know Jesus, what He represents is all these things by who He is and by what
He is doing.
Now this is not what I get as a picture of Jesus people are bringing when they say,
no sorrow for sin, no working it through, no turning from sin, or dedication to not repeat,
no openly admitting what the sin is, and no following and listening intently to what Jesus
is saying. But all these things are inherent in the apostles as reflected in their letters
and the earliest catechism "The Didache" the teaching of the 12 apostles.
So there is one gate, but it seems some have definately not found it, and are striding
on on their imaginary path that is only going their way and not Gods.
Too funny!!!
I was just about to write the same thing to you ....thinking maybe you fell asleep when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus
and some other places too...
I never fell asleep UG
And neither did you.
We both read it while awake but don't agree.
It's difficult for me to understand why.
Don't you even trust those persons who were living just at the time of Jesus or right after?
It's good to know what they thought of ideas. Some of them knew the Apostles and spoke to them and asked them quetions.
Shouldn't we be trusting them?
It is evident that Jesus is talking about false prophets in Matt. 7:15. These are not born-again believers because "inwardly" they are wolves. Christians are NOT wolves. They have a new heart in Christ.
Matthew 7:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Notice that in Matt 7:19-33..Jesus said in verse 21:
"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...
( Jesus never said " I used to know you once.". He said I NEVER knew you at all...).
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....because He is Lord and will be for eternity.
Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4[/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
John 6:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24[/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being led by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we live our lives dependent on Him. It is His fruit that bears in and through us.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9[/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Matthew 7:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Notice that in Matt 7:19-33..Jesus said in verse 21:
"I never knew you "...these people were not believers...
( Jesus never said " I used to know you once.". He said I NEVER knew you at all...).
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....because He is Lord and will be for eternity.
Jesus said that He "knows" His sheep so those in Matt. 7:19-33 are not true Christians.
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4[/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
John 6:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24[/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being led by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we live our lives dependent on Him. It is His fruit that bears in and through us.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9[/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
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The bible does not contradict itself...Paul is clear and you can accuse all you want....
Faith plus works = a different GOSPEL than PAUL preached is double cursed, false and NO POWER and ALL who believe it are FOOLS and BEWITCHED
WE have argued this to the "enth" degree.....and you still push that which is false....get over it Fran.....
My continued stance......NOTICE line two UNDERLINED and **
"Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
Jesus is the true and living way...end of story....the bible is clear....there is but ONE door, not 2, 3 or 50....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE
He that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life
With the MIND man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.
NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
It is either works or GRACE and if GRACE it is not of works.
The narrow way is FAITH into the finished work of Christ on one's behalf....the follow is the way to OBTAIN eternal life and salvation in Christ (bolded)
Jesus + faith = eternal salvation the NARROW WAY
Jesus + faith + works= false gospel described in Galatians and a DIFFERENT DOOR no power (wide path)**
JESUS + ANYTHING = a different door (wide path)
Religion of any sort = a different door and (wide path)
Faith plus works = a different GOSPEL than PAUL preached is double cursed, false and NO POWER and ALL who believe it are FOOLS and BEWITCHED
WE have argued this to the "enth" degree.....and you still push that which is false....get over it Fran.....
My continued stance......NOTICE line two UNDERLINED and **
"Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
Jesus is the true and living way...end of story....the bible is clear....there is but ONE door, not 2, 3 or 50....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE
He that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life
With the MIND man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.
NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
It is either works or GRACE and if GRACE it is not of works.
The narrow way is FAITH into the finished work of Christ on one's behalf....the follow is the way to OBTAIN eternal life and salvation in Christ (bolded)
Jesus + faith = eternal salvation the NARROW WAY
Jesus + faith + works= false gospel described in Galatians and a DIFFERENT DOOR no power (wide path)**
JESUS + ANYTHING = a different door (wide path)
Religion of any sort = a different door and (wide path)
God expects works because He Always did.
When He created Adam and Eve didn't He tell Adam to be the steward over the garden? Is this not a work?
Didn't God Always demand obedience? All throughout the O.T. AND the N.T.
Jesus abolished the Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law.
He DID NOT abolish the Moral Law.
Which would be impossible since God IS MORALITY. Just as God IS LOVE. He cannot go against Himself.
So if Jesus did not abolish the Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, are we not OBLIGATED to follow them?
So then we hear talk of the Old Covenant (Mosaic) and the New Covenant.
And therein is the difference. I've asked some here many times to explain the difference between the O.C and the N.C. but they never do.
Know why?
They'd have to admit that NOTHING CHANGED except the METHOD by which we could adhere to the moral law.
In the O.C. the Israelites tried to follow the commandments with their own strength. THEY COULD NOT.
With the N.C. we still have to follow the commandments but Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to HELP US, not to DO EVERYTHING FOR US.
Plus, we WANT to follow the moral law because we love Jesus for having died for us. He has saved us from the power of satan and for this we're so grateful. The parable of the two debtors...
People were saved even in the O.T...... by faith. Just like now.
So Jesus did not die just to save us. It has to go Beyond that.
We're stopped in our walk because we DON'T GO BEYOND THAT.
Jesus didn't want only faith. He wants a transformation. He wants us to become New Creatures. But not only in words, in reality. This is a "work" we have to do in conjuntion with God. We MUST cooperate. God is not doing it all for us.
Also, Jesus died and sacrificed Himself to open the doors of heaven. No one could go to heaven before, not even saved persons.
We are truly free if we can understand the above.
Some here make it too complicated.
Are works required as per Jesus Himself?
YES.
Why?
Because God demands obedience.
Are we Always going to obey?
NO.
Are we still under satan's power?
NO.
When He created Adam and Eve didn't He tell Adam to be the steward over the garden? Is this not a work?
Didn't God Always demand obedience? All throughout the O.T. AND the N.T.
Jesus abolished the Civil Law and the Ceremonial Law.
He DID NOT abolish the Moral Law.
Which would be impossible since God IS MORALITY. Just as God IS LOVE. He cannot go against Himself.
So if Jesus did not abolish the Moral Law, The Ten Commandments, are we not OBLIGATED to follow them?
So then we hear talk of the Old Covenant (Mosaic) and the New Covenant.
And therein is the difference. I've asked some here many times to explain the difference between the O.C and the N.C. but they never do.
Know why?
They'd have to admit that NOTHING CHANGED except the METHOD by which we could adhere to the moral law.
In the O.C. the Israelites tried to follow the commandments with their own strength. THEY COULD NOT.
With the N.C. we still have to follow the commandments but Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to HELP US, not to DO EVERYTHING FOR US.
Plus, we WANT to follow the moral law because we love Jesus for having died for us. He has saved us from the power of satan and for this we're so grateful. The parable of the two debtors...
People were saved even in the O.T...... by faith. Just like now.
So Jesus did not die just to save us. It has to go Beyond that.
We're stopped in our walk because we DON'T GO BEYOND THAT.
Jesus didn't want only faith. He wants a transformation. He wants us to become New Creatures. But not only in words, in reality. This is a "work" we have to do in conjuntion with God. We MUST cooperate. God is not doing it all for us.
Also, Jesus died and sacrificed Himself to open the doors of heaven. No one could go to heaven before, not even saved persons.
We are truly free if we can understand the above.
Some here make it too complicated.
Are works required as per Jesus Himself?
YES.
Why?
Because God demands obedience.
Are we Always going to obey?
NO.
Are we still under satan's power?
NO.
Notice that Jesus said to these people that were supposedly "doing good works". - He never knew them. Jesus knows His sheep.
Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.
Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do. ( as post #274 shows )
Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.
When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest His life of righteousness that is already in us outwardly. From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father.
There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.
Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.
Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do. ( as post #274 shows )
Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.
When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest His life of righteousness that is already in us outwardly. From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father.
There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.
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NOTICE that in Mathew 7:23 Jesus states, very plainly, WHO He never knew...
"DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."
That seems pretty clear to me.
And I'm not even getting into the idea that JESUS DID NOT EXPLAIN SALVATION THE WAY WE UNDERSTAND IT TODAY.
This is an unknown concept at that time and immediately after and not untill just a few hundred years ago did this idea come into existance. It was not a part of the original biblical understanding.
Not in the way we understand it today.
Please show me some verses that make it clear that Jesus understood salvation the way we do.
That all we have to do is believe in Him and we'll be saved.
That it's not necessary for us to do anything except believe.
PLEASE DO THIS.
Don't just keep copying and pasting the same ole' stuff.
"DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."
That seems pretty clear to me.
And I'm not even getting into the idea that JESUS DID NOT EXPLAIN SALVATION THE WAY WE UNDERSTAND IT TODAY.
This is an unknown concept at that time and immediately after and not untill just a few hundred years ago did this idea come into existance. It was not a part of the original biblical understanding.
Not in the way we understand it today.
Please show me some verses that make it clear that Jesus understood salvation the way we do.
That all we have to do is believe in Him and we'll be saved.
That it's not necessary for us to do anything except believe.
PLEASE DO THIS.
Don't just keep copying and pasting the same ole' stuff.