Are you RIGHTEOUS?
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And we love him because he?
Yes God died for all, even those he knew would not accept the olive branch.
Lets be honest if Jesus only died for those he knew would accept him then Jesus didn't have to die.
Jesus wouldn't have to have been so anguished on the cross when he said "My God my God why have you forsaken me?
For a period in history the Father and Son were separated.
God could have said "Ok x,y and z will believe in me if I send Jesus so let's leave it at that and call time"
He is patient and wishes that no one will perish.
Jesus was righteous and God allowed his heel to be bruised.
Yes God died for all, even those he knew would not accept the olive branch.
Lets be honest if Jesus only died for those he knew would accept him then Jesus didn't have to die.
Jesus wouldn't have to have been so anguished on the cross when he said "My God my God why have you forsaken me?
For a period in history the Father and Son were separated.
God could have said "Ok x,y and z will believe in me if I send Jesus so let's leave it at that and call time"
He is patient and wishes that no one will perish.
Jesus was righteous and God allowed his heel to be bruised.
I think this is not a question we can answer, and to put it mildly, I am not
going to put myself into the position of finding out.
In Korahs rebellion, did he go to destruction along with the others who rebelled?
I think the answer is in their hearts when they died. The were not in repentance
and pleading for forgiveness.
For some reason people have this idea it is a simple thing, once passed the door,
you will not be discarded, that is just not possible.
Many are called, few are chosen.
going to put myself into the position of finding out.
In Korahs rebellion, did he go to destruction along with the others who rebelled?
I think the answer is in their hearts when they died. The were not in repentance
and pleading for forgiveness.
For some reason people have this idea it is a simple thing, once passed the door,
you will not be discarded, that is just not possible.
Many are called, few are chosen.
These are things that are part and parcel of the new man of Spirit. Given to us in Holy Spirit infused? within our spirit. Not sure how to accurately describe what has happened to us in the inner man.
When we know what we have within, we draw upon this power of Holy Spirit to be...and is all out of abiding in Christ Jesus. without Him...we can do nothing. Or at least nothing of worth in His Kingdom.
Peter is making us aware of what we have in Him.
When we know what we have within, we draw upon this power of Holy Spirit to be...and is all out of abiding in Christ Jesus. without Him...we can do nothing. Or at least nothing of worth in His Kingdom.
Peter is making us aware of what we have in Him.
Your works aren't to try and grow fruit.
That is the work of the Lord.
Your work is to present yourself a living sacrifice. To abide in the Vine. IOW, Rest in Christ.
That is how the fruit is grown. Not by your work.
Any work that the Lord requires He Provides for.
John 15:4-5
[FONT="]4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[/FONT]
That is the work of the Lord.
Your work is to present yourself a living sacrifice. To abide in the Vine. IOW, Rest in Christ.
That is how the fruit is grown. Not by your work.
Any work that the Lord requires He Provides for.
John 15:4-5
[FONT="]4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[/FONT]
Salvation is a gift.
Heaven is a reward.
Jesus and Paul have said it, not me...
Philippians 3:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 1:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Jesus said:
THEREFORE everyone who hears these words of mine, and ACTS UPON THEM, may be compared to a wise man who built his house upon the rock...
Mathew 7:24NASB
We indeed must keep our faith to keep our salvation.
We indeed must do what Jesus commanded if we are to be His disciples.
Heaven is a reward.
Jesus and Paul have said it, not me...
Philippians 3:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 1:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Jesus said:
THEREFORE everyone who hears these words of mine, and ACTS UPON THEM, may be compared to a wise man who built his house upon the rock...
Mathew 7:24NASB
We indeed must keep our faith to keep our salvation.
We indeed must do what Jesus commanded if we are to be His disciples.
Really?
What did you ever do?
Did YOU do it or was Jesus right there doing it for you.
He said the Holy Spirit would be a HELPER...
Jesus DID NOT say the Holy Spirit would DO YOUR WORK for you.
Jesus is the vine.
We are the branches.
If the branches DO NOT PRODUCE fruit, they will be cut down and burned.
John 15:1-6
Mathew 7:13-23
Which, BTW, Dcon was supposed to exeget for us but he never did.
I, OTOH, did do this because I'm CERTAIN of what the verses mean.
Maybe he'd care to do this now???
(Mathew 7:13-23)
What did you ever do?
Did YOU do it or was Jesus right there doing it for you.
He said the Holy Spirit would be a HELPER...
Jesus DID NOT say the Holy Spirit would DO YOUR WORK for you.
Jesus is the vine.
We are the branches.
If the branches DO NOT PRODUCE fruit, they will be cut down and burned.
John 15:1-6
Mathew 7:13-23
Which, BTW, Dcon was supposed to exeget for us but he never did.
I, OTOH, did do this because I'm CERTAIN of what the verses mean.
Maybe he'd care to do this now???
(Mathew 7:13-23)
works of the Kingdom are like these:
~Rom 12:4 For we have many parts in one body, but these parts do not all have the same function.
Rom 12:5 In the same way, even though we are many people, we are one body in the Messiah and individual parts connected to each other.
Rom 12:6 We have different gifts based on the grace that was given to us. So if your gift is prophecy, use your gift in proportion to your faith.
~Rom 12:4 For we have many parts in one body, but these parts do not all have the same function.
Rom 12:5 In the same way, even though we are many people, we are one body in the Messiah and individual parts connected to each other.
Rom 12:6 We have different gifts based on the grace that was given to us. So if your gift is prophecy, use your gift in proportion to your faith.
So you think that by trying really hard you can produce the fruit of the Spirit?
By your will and your strength you can cause the Vine to produce its fruit in you?
And if you stop trying, if your will or your strength fades, the Vine is powerless to produce this fruit in you?
I think you need to settle Who, exactly, it is that Produces the Fruit. Who Provides. Who Blesses. Who Works.
I already know who it is. That is why I posted those scriptures. They are clear.
By your will and your strength you can cause the Vine to produce its fruit in you?
And if you stop trying, if your will or your strength fades, the Vine is powerless to produce this fruit in you?
I think you need to settle Who, exactly, it is that Produces the Fruit. Who Provides. Who Blesses. Who Works.
I already know who it is. That is why I posted those scriptures. They are clear.
Spot on Grandpa.
Christ alone is the Vine and He alone supplies the life that is in Him to produce the fruit which manifest as good works in various forms and ways.
Branches bear the fruit of the Vine - they don't produce them on their own by their own will-power and self-effort. Without Him = we can do nothing.
All works-based belief systems always get the gospel and the things of Christ backwards by trying to achieve and "maintain" salvation through what "they do" - what Christ has already done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Christ alone is the Vine and He alone supplies the life that is in Him to produce the fruit which manifest as good works in various forms and ways.
Branches bear the fruit of the Vine - they don't produce them on their own by their own will-power and self-effort. Without Him = we can do nothing.
All works-based belief systems always get the gospel and the things of Christ backwards by trying to achieve and "maintain" salvation through what "they do" - what Christ has already done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.
U
So I can be saved, given this gift. but not be given the reward of heaven.
So then because I did not earn heaven I forfeit the gift I was given as well.
Hmm...
How about scriptures are read correctly that we are saved and salvation is a gift, the actual gift is eternal life which is heaven and eternal life is eternal... starting when we are saved/born again.
We continue in the faith because that is what all men are created for, to have fellowship with their creator, even though in our fallen state as born again believers, we can sometimes struggle to live in that communion/grace.
So of course we are exhorted to remain in the faith, because in this faith we are living in the victory that Jesus won for us. It is where we belong even though the enemy tries very hard to convince us otherwise.
Again it is not about maintaining our salvation.
This is what you posted:
John 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
You picked, most probably, the number one scripture for proving that one must continue in faith to keep saved....
By mistake, I'm sure.
John 15:1-6
Jesus is the vine.
Father is the vinedresser.
Every branch is Jesus THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, the Father takes away.
If a branch DOES bear fruit, the Father will prune it so it COULD PRODUCE MORE FRUIT.
(prune means to teach, not that the FAther is going to do everything for you, or Jesus for that matter)
Jesus says to ABIDE IN HIM as He ABIDES IN US.
The branch cannot bear fruit of itself. We need help. The Holy Spirit is our help. Just like Jesus said He would be.
IF we do not ABIDE IN CHIRST (keep on believing and having faith in Him) we WILL NOT bear fruit.
SO, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT WE ABIDE IN CHRIST AND PRODUCE FRUIT. WITH HIS HELP.
IF we do not ABIDE in Christ, we are THROWN AWAY as a branch, the branch DRIES UP, the branches are gathered and cast into the fire and are burned.
Great scripture to prove that we MUST ABIDE in Christ
Which means that IF jESUS IS SAYING we must ABIDE in HIM, it means it's POSSIBLE that we could NOT abide in Him and just walk away from Him and our faith.
Thanks for choosing such a great scripture.
John 15:4-5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
You picked, most probably, the number one scripture for proving that one must continue in faith to keep saved....
By mistake, I'm sure.
John 15:1-6
Jesus is the vine.
Father is the vinedresser.
Every branch is Jesus THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, the Father takes away.
If a branch DOES bear fruit, the Father will prune it so it COULD PRODUCE MORE FRUIT.
(prune means to teach, not that the FAther is going to do everything for you, or Jesus for that matter)
Jesus says to ABIDE IN HIM as He ABIDES IN US.
The branch cannot bear fruit of itself. We need help. The Holy Spirit is our help. Just like Jesus said He would be.
IF we do not ABIDE IN CHIRST (keep on believing and having faith in Him) we WILL NOT bear fruit.
SO, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT WE ABIDE IN CHRIST AND PRODUCE FRUIT. WITH HIS HELP.
IF we do not ABIDE in Christ, we are THROWN AWAY as a branch, the branch DRIES UP, the branches are gathered and cast into the fire and are burned.
Great scripture to prove that we MUST ABIDE in Christ
Which means that IF jESUS IS SAYING we must ABIDE in HIM, it means it's POSSIBLE that we could NOT abide in Him and just walk away from Him and our faith.
Thanks for choosing such a great scripture.