Are you under the Curse

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,283
292
83
#41
Are we just going to keep going over this stuff? *rubbing forehead*

So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. Hebrews 6
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
9,835
5,181
113
73
#42
If no one is under the law then how does it make sense that some people try to keep them spiritually?

Wouldn't only those who are under the law attempt to keep them spiritually?


See what I mean when I say it just seems like a bunch of word games?
Not if we use the law as a sort of template to direct us to what is sinful and what is not. That is the way I feel God wants me to view it.

When I meditate on God's law, His Spirit directs me through the scriptures.

He is not the Great Speed Cop in the sky that some make Him out.

I don't feel He will swat me for not doing His precepts. They were placed to minister to us. 5thumbsup.gif
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,032
1,431
113
#43
Not if we use the law as a sort of template to direct us to what is sinful and what is not. That is the way I feel God wants me to view it.

When I meditate on God's law, His Spirit directs me through the scriptures.

He is not the Great Speed Cop in the sky that some make Him out.

I don't feel He will swat me for not doing His precepts. They were placed to minister to us. View attachment 202823
The law didn't already direct you to what is sinful?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why does scripture say that once we have come to Christ and have faith in Him we are no longer under the law??

Shouldn't scripture say that once faith is come we are to use the law as a sort of template to direct us to what is sin and what is not?

Do you feel God is directing you to go back to the law against what Paul tells you here about His Son Christ?


That last sentence is pretty good, I have to at least give you that. I wonder if you understand more than you are letting on... Sometimes it seems like you get it.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
9,835
5,181
113
73
#44
The law didn't already direct you to what is sinful?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why does scripture say that once we have come to Christ and have faith in Him we are no longer under the law??

Shouldn't scripture say that once faith is come we are to use the law as a sort of template to direct us to what is sin and what is not?

Do you feel God is directing you to go back to the law against what Paul tells you here about His Son Christ?


That last sentence is pretty good, I have to at least give you that. I wonder if you understand more than you are letting on... Sometimes it seems like you get it.
Well Grandpa, by the way I am a great-grandpa; if you don't find the law helpful to direct your walk with our Lord, fine. I am just saying I do. Oh, I get it. The Lord and I, we have got this! 2cool.gif
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
9,941
4,687
113
#45
The truth you must understand is that because Jesus Christ was a law keeper, the Christian is a law keeper.
A few different wordings should be sufficient to demonstrate the utter folly of this reasoning.

- because Jesus was born of a virgin, the Christian is born of a virgin
- because Jesus walked on water, the Christian walks on water
- because Jesus was baptized in the Jorden, the Christian is baptized in the Jorden
- because Jesus had twelve disciples, the Christian has twelve disciples
- because Jesus was whipped before His death, the Christian is whipped before his death
- because Jesus is God incarnate, the Christian is God incarnate
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,032
1,431
113
#46
Well Grandpa, by the way I am a great-grandpa; if you don't find the law helpful to direct your walk with our Lord, fine. I am just saying I do. Oh, I get it. The Lord and I, we have got this! View attachment 202824
I figured you were older than me... I was kind of young when I was first a Grandpa. Only 38. But that was 10yrs ago... So not so young anymore...

The Lord works in mysterious ways. I wish I could say I understood it 100% of the time but I really don't.

The Lord and I are pretty awesome too... :ROFL:
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,540
257
83
#47
WE are not under the curse of the law Why would anyone want to be. Our Savior took away the curse of the law and we are under his grace and love.
In my time here I've often notice through the way many discuss this topic that many interpret the phrase "the curse of the law", to mean "the curse, that is the law". And interpret "works of the law" to mean "everything written to be followed in the law".

I think it would help if we fleshed out these phrases.

-----

There is The Law.


Written in The Law are:

A) Instructions (to walk in)
B) Blessings (for obeying)
C) Curses (for disobedience/sins)
D) Works (for cleansing of sins); performed by levitical priesthood

When the Israelites broke The Law - by not walking in its (A) instructions - they were subject to the (C) curses detailed in The Law. They were placed "under" those curses and were required to perform the (D) "works" found in The Law to cleanse themselves of their sin.

...but the "works" (for cleansing of sins) were just examples that taught what Christ would later do to *truly* cleanse sins...like a "schoolmaster" for students, teaching a class on the subject of "cleansing sins". To be performed over and over as a rehearsal, never really doing anything to take away the sins.


After Christ, those "works" (for cleansing of sin) are no longer needed. Simply having faith that Christ is doing the real work in heaven is sufficient (faith because we can not see the priestly work being performed like the Israelites could witness daily in the temple).


Still existing in The Law are:

A) Instructions (to walk in)
B) Blessings (for obeying)
C) Curses (for disobedience/sins)

But with a change to The Law:

D) Faith in Christ (for cleansing of sins); just confess sins at the heavenly throne. Levitical priesthood no longer needed. Nothing else needed to die.


After this change, any Israelite who would go back to performing the old (D) "works" (for cleansing of sin) - After Christ - was effectively denying the true work of cleansing...and if they're denying the true cleansing they're still "under" the (C) curses and still in their sins.

Meanwhile, those who have faith in Christ were cleansed and no longer under the curses...but were still expected to follow the (A) instructions to "sin no more" so as to not make the blood of Christ worthless, receiving (B) blessings for their obedience.

They are free from the (C) curse of the law.

-----

So "the curse of the law" = the law's curses (for committing sins)

And "the works of the law" = the law's works (for cleansing sins)

And "under the law" = under the law's punishment (the curses)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,032
1,431
113
#48
In my time here I've often notice through the way many discuss this topic that many interpret the phrase "the curse of the law", to mean "the curse, that is the law". And interpret "works of the law" to mean "everything written to be followed in the law".

I think it would help if we fleshed out these phrases.

-----

There is The Law.


Written in The Law are:

A) Instructions (to walk in)
B) Blessings (for obeying)
C) Curses (for disobedience/sins)
D) Works (for cleansing of sins); performed by levitical priesthood

When the Israelites broke The Law - by not walking in its (A) instructions - they were subject to the (C) curses detailed in The Law. They were placed "under" those curses and were required to perform the (D) "works" found in The Law to cleanse themselves of their sin.

...but the "works" (for cleansing of sins) were just examples that taught what Christ would later do to *truly* cleanse sins...like a "schoolmaster" for students, teaching a class on the subject of "cleansing sins". To be performed over and over as a rehearsal, never really doing anything to take away the sins.


After Christ, those "works" (for cleansing of sin) are no longer needed. Simply having faith that Christ is doing the real work in heaven is sufficient (faith because we can not see the priestly work being performed like the Israelites could witness daily in the temple).


Still existing in The Law are:

A) Instructions (to walk in)
B) Blessings (for obeying)
C) Curses (for disobedience/sins)

But with a change to The Law:

D) Faith in Christ (for cleansing of sins); just confess sins at the heavenly throne. Levitical priesthood no longer needed. Nothing else needed to die.


After this change, any Israelite who would go back to performing the old (D) "works" (for cleansing of sin) - After Christ - was effectively denying the true work of cleansing...and if they're denying the true cleansing they're still "under" the (C) curses and still in their sins.

Meanwhile, those who have faith in Christ were cleansed and no longer under the curses...but were still expected to follow the (A) instructions to "sin no more" so as to not make the blood of Christ worthless, receiving (B) blessings for their obedience.

They are free from the (C) curse of the law.

-----

So "the curse of the law" = the law's curses (for committing sins)

And "the works of the law" = the law's works (for cleansing sins)

And "under the law" = under the law's punishment (the curses)
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

If you are still looking to the law for instruction in righteousness and blessing then you are not dead to it.

Since you are not dead to it then you are subject to its curse, which is;

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


You aren't going to "sin no more" by looking to the law and trying to obey your understanding of what you think it says.

The only way you can "sin no more" is by abiding in Christ, trusting in Christ.

Romans 8:2-7
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,623
769
113
#49
[QUOTE="Josefnospam, post: 3994841, member: 197544" Notice I added no comments to the scriptures [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Josefnospam, post: 3994841, member: 197544" After the scripture I added my personal comments.[/QUOTE]

You do understand the oxymoron in these statements, right?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,540
257
83
#50
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

If you are still looking to the law for instruction in righteousness and blessing then you are not dead to it.

Since you are not dead to it then you are subject to its curse, which is;
That's not what that means. It means to crucify the flesh with all of its lusts through the Spirit of Christ.

When the flesh is dead, only the Spirit remains to walk as Christ walked, in obedience.


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Works of the law = works to cleanse one's sins = all the works of purification that are in the Law (including levitical priesthood works).

It doesn't include the instructions for performing "good works" or walking godly.


You aren't going to "sin no more" by looking to the law and trying to obey your understanding of what you think it says.

The only way you can "sin no more" is by abiding in Christ, trusting in Christ.
The Holy Spirt teaches and provides the understanding for one to walk in obedience to The Law.

Grace teaches us this. Titus 2:12

Abiding in Christ = following the teacher. We have to walk it out.

Greatest commandment is this: to love God will ALL of YOUR heart, ALL of YOUR soul, ALL of YOUR mind, and ALL of YOUR STRENGTH


Romans 8:2-7
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The law of sin & death = "if you sin something must die, either you or a substitute"

The law of Spirit & life = "if you sin go to throne to confess and be cleansed and learn from the Spirit to obey the Law and sin no more"


Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Justification = cleansing of sins

Afterwards, follow instructions to sin no more. Sanctification.



Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Justification = cleansing of sins

After justified, follow instructions to sin no more. Sanctification.


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Works required to cleanse sins, which could never cleanse sins; which could never justify, is bondage.

Justification = cleansing of sins

After justified by faith in Christ, we're expected to follow instructions to sin no more. We are given the Holy Spirit to help us, but we must do it.


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Grace teaches us. Grace empowers us. But we must walk the walk of obedience with ALL of our heart, soul, mind, and STRENGTH. And we can because we no longer live by our flesh (which is dead) but by the Spirit. Sanctification.