Are you under the Curse

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
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#21
Thank you for the compliment.
Beliefs are not necessarily what people say they believe, but rather the behaviour and the meaning
of the concepts. I could claim I can walk on hot coals. It can be shown this is possible with or without
faith. One can therefore build a case of behaviour and belief and how they work together.

A for instance I can say, "I am immortal and it is a free gift once accepted God never rejects"
I can say "I have free will to accept Christ once, but reject Him thousands of times unless I have accepted
Him once."
Or deeper still, "I can accept Jesus and an upgrade to immortality takes place, except if at some later point
I believe something not liked, which means the previous upgrade never took place."
Another way of saying this is "I can choose what I believe, I believe only this group of ideas, unless I do
not, at which point I never believed at all. But this is eternal security sealed by the Holy Spirit except if I
discover I never believed at all." So in truth there is never eternal security, just the delusion it exists.

God is the judge, and in Him we rest. Now as a very empathetic, feeling kind of person, I know the trauma
and lack of it some feel. Jesus was so empathetic he wept at Lazaruses wake. I used to wonder at this, now
I do not. Jesus was a lover of our souls, He died for them. He has the heart of hearts. Even those who claim
I talk rubbish, to save sinners, Jesus must love beyond the boundaries of Holiness and His own righteousness.
That is self destruction, if you know what adopting dysfunctional children is like, in the end they will always
get chucked out. Now I will always share, because until I met this level of dysfunctional behaviour I never
believed it could exist or express itself like this. Some really hate the light and Christs freedom, love at
work to cleanse the heart. God bless you.
So you don't believe in Christ? You think He is just a delusion?

Why are you even here? To try and draw Christians away from their steadfastness?

Kind of a weird screen name for someone who professes to not believe in Christ. Wouldn't you say?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,150
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#22
PLEASE NOTE:
All i ask is you read the few scriptures carefully Notice I added no comments to the scriptures and I will not respond to
any one who wants to argue or cause trouble. Form you own opinion and keep it to yourself. After the scripture I added my personal comments ......Thank you

Gal. 3;10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse
Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God.
Gal. 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law
Romans 6:15 We are not under the law but under grace
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified
Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the spirit you are not under the law

WE are not under the curse of the law Why would anyone want to be. Our Savior took away the curse of the law and we are under his grace and love. WE are to keep his commandments
And this is his commandment That we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another
I thank God I am not under the curse of the law and I truely hope so are you Trust and believe in Christ Jesus
who gives eternal life.
You start a thread quoting Galatians 3 when Paul is speaking to them concerning some false teachings a few brought in. Here is the verse Gal. 2:4 "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:"

None of the law keepers in this forum think they are saved by keeping such laws. We are all saved by grace. Why do we constantly fight about where our salvation lies. We are free from the curse of the law. No amount of words is going to change that. So, what is the purpose of this thread? Tell me? :cool:
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
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#23
You start a thread quoting Galatians 3 when Paul is speaking to them concerning some false teachings a few brought in. Here is the verse Gal. 2:4 "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:"

None of the law keepers in this forum think they are saved by keeping such laws. We are all saved by grace. Why do we constantly fight about where our salvation lies. We are free from the curse of the law. No amount of words is going to change that. So, what is the purpose of this thread? Tell me? :cool:
I sure wish we could get to the bottom of this. All it seems like to me is a bunch of word games that are played.

Why is it when someone says they aren't under the law some legalist comes in and says they aren't saved by keeping laws?

Whoever said you were saved by keeping laws?

Who was even talking about Salvation?

Just seems like a silly bait and switch trying to argue an argument that no one even brings up.

Except legalists. Guilty conscience maybe? I'm grasping at straws here...
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,150
5,812
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#24
I sure wish we could get to the bottom of this. All it seems like to me is a bunch of word games that are played.

Why is it when someone says they aren't under the law some legalist comes in and says they aren't saved by keeping laws?

Whoever said you were saved by keeping laws?

Who was even talking about Salvation?

Just seems like a silly bait and switch trying to argue an argument that no one even brings up.

Except legalists. Guilty conscience maybe? I'm grasping at straws here...
Just using the term legalist, you are applying the strawman argument. Nobody is under the law but some of us know how to keep them spiritually, or at least we try. Thank God for grace. 5thumbsup.gif
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#25
Why in the world would I want to do that? Regarding spiritual matters, pastors don't always know everything about anything. If the law kills, as Paul has stated, then he must have been referring to the 10 Commandments. Really, what other law is spiritually pertinent besides those? Paul certainly was not talking about the 600+ laws and ordinances in effect at Moses time.
The truth you must understand is that because Jesus Christ was a law keeper, the Christian is a law keeper. Faith placed exclusively in the Cross will never bring shame; faith placed elsewhere will, without fail, bring shame.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
113
#26
Just using the term legalist, you are applying the strawman argument. Nobody is under the law but some of us know how to keep them spiritually, or at least we try. Thank God for grace. View attachment 202547
If no one is under the law then how does it make sense that some people try to keep them spiritually?

Wouldn't only those who are under the law attempt to keep them spiritually?


See what I mean when I say it just seems like a bunch of word games?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,938
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Florida
#27
The truth you must understand is that because Jesus Christ was a law keeper, the Christian is a law keeper. Faith placed exclusively in the Cross will never bring shame; faith placed elsewhere will, without fail, bring shame.
I place my faith on Jesus dying on the cross for my sins but not on the cross itself which was only just a means of execution. By keeping the law I thought I made it clear in a previous post that I believe the 10 Commandments to be the law and if you break one then you commit a sin. There does not remain a curse though because Jesus died for the remission of sin. There would be a curse however if you didn't not believe in the saving grace of Jesus dying on the cross for your sins and inviting the Holy Spirit to live inside your heart to comfort and guide you in the life-long repentance process.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#29
I place my faith on Jesus dying on the cross for my sins but not on the cross itself which was only just a means of execution.
“3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“5 For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the Means by which all of this is done):” Romans 6

JSM

Please accept this truth.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,031
5,462
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#30
“3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His Death?

“4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

“5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His Death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection:” Romans 6
Fixed it for you... again. You really need to stop using a commentary and get yourself a proper Bible.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
#31
So you don't believe in Christ? You think He is just a delusion?
Why are you even here? To try and draw Christians away from their steadfastness?
Kind of a weird screen name for someone who professes to not believe in Christ. Wouldn't you say?
I am not sure your point as I believe in Jesus and follow Him.
I suppose you feel I am justifying myself and excluding the cross.
Anyone who projects this is just not listening and wants to polarize discussions.

I have noticed when an impossible choice is put in front of people, suddenly the irrational
solution is presented, so extreme it is laughable.

But this is what happens when truth cannot be faced, one has to invent an alternative reality.
I cannot share more that what I share. It is the believers responsibility if they are prepared to
listen or not. Jesus says simply if we listen He will light the way. God bless you
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,506
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#32
“3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“5 For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the Means by which all of this is done):” Romans 6

JSM

Please accept this truth.
“I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST

“I am Crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the Faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me” (Gal. 2:20).

The verb “crucified” is in the perfect tense, which speaks of a past, completed action having present results. Paul uses it to show that his identification with Christ at the Cross was a past fact, and that the Spiritual Benefits that have come to him through his identification are present realities with Him. By this statement he also shows how he died to the Law, namely by dying with Christ, Who died under its penalty (Rom. 6:3-5). The Law’s demands were satisfied and, therefore, have no more hold on Paul, or any Believer, at least one whose Faith is exclusively in Christ and what Christ did at the Cross.

“DEATH TO SELF

To Paul, being thus crucified with Christ also meant death to self. When Paul died with Christ, it was the Pharisee Saul who died. As far as he was concerned, what he was and did up to that time had passed away. Saul was buried and the old life with him. The dominating control of the Adamic nature (the sin nature) had its power over him broken.

THE CHRIST-CENTERED LIFE

Consequently, it is no longer a self-centered life that he lives but a Christ-centered one. His new life is a Person, the Lord Jesus, through the Person of the Holy Spirit, living in Paul, and through the Ministry of the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus is manifest in his life. The new life is no longer like the former one, dependent upon the ineffectual efforts of a man attempting to draw near to God by his own works. The new life is a Person, namely Christ, within a person, living out His Life in that person. Instead of attempting to live his life in obedience to a set of rules in the form of the legal enactments of the Mosaic Law, Paul now yields to the indwelling Holy Spirit and cooperates with Him in the production of a life pleasing to God, which is energized by the Divine Life resident in him through the regenerating Work of the Spirit, all made possible by the Cross.

THE RELIGION OF MAN

However, man, even believing man, somewhat balks at this position given here by the Holy Spirit through Paul. Man likes to have some credit and some position. He likes that which he can see and handle. He refuses to be treated as vile and incapable of good and is angered that he and his religious efforts should be condemned to annihilation.

SELF TRYING TO SANCTIFY SELF

Oh, yes! Man will willingly practice efforts to annihilate himself, for that ministers to his own importance. However, to accept the absolute judgment of death upon his nature, his religious energies, and his moral virtues, and to be commanded to be silent and as a dead sinner, to trust the Life-giving Saviour, finding in Christ all that is needful for Righteousness and worship, is distasteful and repelling, hence, the offense of the Cross. But this is the Doctrine of Galatians 2:20.

THE CROSS

When Paul mentioned, “living by the Faith of the Son of God,” he was once again taking the Believer to the Cross. With the first phrase, “I am Crucified with Christ,” he takes the Believer to Romans 6:3-5. There the Believer was baptized into the Death of Christ, buried with Him by baptism into death, and raised with Him in Newness of Life. No! This is not speaking of Water Baptism but the Crucifixion of Christ. The Believer gains this place and position in Christ by simply having Faith in Christ and what Christ did at the Cross.

In fact, Paul opens this great statement of Galatians 2:20 by taking the Believer to the Cross. He said, “I am Crucified with Christ.” He closed this great Scripture also with the Cross by saying, “I live by the Faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me.” So, he opens with the Cross, and he closes with the Cross. Only the Holy Spirit in such brief terminology could give the actual meaning of the New Covenant in this one Passage. And, He most definitely did!

Going back to the statement we previously made, “Believing man will willingly practice efforts to annihilate himself, for that ministers to his own importance,” presents itself as the bane of Believers. In other words, this is where the rubber meets the road. So, what am I telling you?

I am telling you that within our own ability, our own personal strength, and our own personal efforts, we cannot hope to gain victory over the sin nature. It’s simply not possible. It can only be done by the Power of the Holy Spirit, and He carries out such by our Faith being placed supremely in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross. The Holy Spirit will work in no other way and, in fact, can work in no other way. It is the Cross of Christ that has given Him the legal Means to do all that He does within our hearts and lives.”

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#33
“FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH

There is only one fight in which we are to be engaged, and that is, “the good fight of Faith.” Paul also said:

“Fight the good fight of Faith (in essence, the only fight we’re called upon to engage; every attack by Satan against the Believer, irrespective of its form, is to destroy or seriously weaken our Faith; he wants to keep our Faith in things other than the Cross, and if it’s in the Cross, to push it from the Cross to other things), lay hold on Eternal Life (we do such by understanding that all Life comes from Christ, and the Means is the Cross), whereunto you are also Called (Called to follow Christ), and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. (This does not refer to a particular occasion, but to the entirety of his life for Christ)” (I Tim. 6:12).”

SIN?

In a sense, if we’re fighting a battle with sin of any nature, then we’re fighting the wrong battle. That battle was fought and won at Calvary nearly two thousand years ago. The struggle is with Faith, as it always is with Faith.

What do we mean by that?

Paul said, “. . . I live by the Faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me” (Gal. 2:20).

The phrase, “The Faith of the Son of God,” refers to the Faith that’s made possible by what Christ did for us at the Cross. We are to have Faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, understanding that He is always the Source while the Cross is always the Means.

JSM
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
113
#34
I am not sure your point as I believe in Jesus and follow Him.
I suppose you feel I am justifying myself and excluding the cross.
Anyone who projects this is just not listening and wants to polarize discussions.

I have noticed when an impossible choice is put in front of people, suddenly the irrational
solution is presented, so extreme it is laughable.

But this is what happens when truth cannot be faced, one has to invent an alternative reality.
I cannot share more that what I share. It is the believers responsibility if they are prepared to
listen or not. Jesus says simply if we listen He will light the way. God bless you
Ah. So that's what you're doing.

See if you're really listening;

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I thought in your last post you were mocking the Eternal Life that the Lord gives to those who hear his voice and follow Him. And if you were doing that then you certainly don't believe in what He says. And if you don't believe in what He says then you can't believe in Him.

Is that what you were doing? Mocking the Eternal Life that the Lord gives to His Sheep? I believe the term you used was 'delusion'. Do you think these aren't Christs Words?

I'm kind of confused on the exact position that you are trying to express.
 

Josefnospam

Senior Member
May 29, 2014
302
46
28
#35
Im somewhat confused about some of the posts. Jesus Christ is the Savior. Once he gives you his spirit you have eternal life and are no longer under the curse of having to keep ever bit of the law. Christ sets you free
we are sinners and what a wonderful blessing it is to know the Lord who has the power and authority to forgive us of our many sins and submit us to the father blameless and without fault

Behold GOD is my salvation.....therefore with joy shall you draw water out of the wells of salvation
Trust in the Lord draw from the wells of salvation and always give God all the credit for his salvation plan.

If you dont know Christ you dont know God and there are many who do not know him.
Ever wonder who Paul was talking about when he said God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie

Thank God for his mercy and grace and love for his people and we shold love others as he loves us.
Stay away from vain arguments and simply tell others about our wonderful Savior Jesus Christ
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
#36
Ah. So that's what you're doing.

See if you're really listening;

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I thought in your last post you were mocking the Eternal Life that the Lord gives to those who hear his voice and follow Him. And if you were doing that then you certainly don't believe in what He says. And if you don't believe in what He says then you can't believe in Him.

Is that what you were doing? Mocking the Eternal Life that the Lord gives to His Sheep? I believe the term you used was 'delusion'. Do you think these aren't Christs Words?

I'm kind of confused on the exact position that you are trying to express.
Hi Grandpa,

Are you immortal? Nothing you could do would betray the faith or your Lord?
The belief system proposes satan can enter heaven. It has separated a spiritual encounter with
Jesus, as being the deciding factor in eternal life. But scripture says the deciding factor is our
walk, its consistency and endurance. The idea is claims are easy, delivery is proof.

12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God,
because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
Gen 22

The belief is beliefs define spiritual reality not beliefs demonstrated in action.
I have a thought, I will go to the shops today. I do not go.
I have a thought, I will go to the shops today. I go.
Which thought was true and which false? The one that was acted out.

It is easy to say we are religious yet do nothing. Discovering what doing things in Christ is, is our
walk. Paul described this as sowing.

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one
who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6

I have an elderly mother. She takes time over the weeks and years, but I love her and desire the best
that can be given within constraints. But all this could be undone if in frustration I abandon this walk
and desire to love. Then the love was pretend, and it was for selfish ends. Only at the end of such stories
is the truth revealed. So in Christ, we pass from death to life to walk with Him, if finally we fulfil the goal
and do not give up. God bless you.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
1,978
113
#37
Hi Grandpa,

Are you immortal? Nothing you could do would betray the faith or your Lord?
The belief system proposes satan can enter heaven. It has separated a spiritual encounter with
Jesus, as being the deciding factor in eternal life. But scripture says the deciding factor is our
walk, its consistency and endurance. The idea is claims are easy, delivery is proof.

12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God,
because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
Gen 22

The belief is beliefs define spiritual reality not beliefs demonstrated in action.
I have a thought, I will go to the shops today. I do not go.
I have a thought, I will go to the shops today. I go.
Which thought was true and which false? The one that was acted out.

It is easy to say we are religious yet do nothing. Discovering what doing things in Christ is, is our
walk. Paul described this as sowing.

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one
who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6

I have an elderly mother. She takes time over the weeks and years, but I love her and desire the best
that can be given within constraints. But all this could be undone if in frustration I abandon this walk
and desire to love. Then the love was pretend, and it was for selfish ends. Only at the end of such stories
is the truth revealed. So in Christ, we pass from death to life to walk with Him, if finally we fulfil the goal
and do not give up. God bless you.
Just ask yourself what Faith says.

Does faith cause doubt in the Words of Christ, like you are trying to do?

Or does Faith say it is as good as done Right Now because the Lord has said so?

Here's another one for you;

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

With such a works-based mindset is it possible for you to understand Faith? What do these scriptures say to you? What are the implications?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
113
#38
Just ask yourself what Faith says.

Does faith cause doubt in the Words of Christ, like you are trying to do?

Or does Faith say it is as good as done Right Now because the Lord has said so?

Here's another one for you;

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

With such a works-based mindset is it possible for you to understand Faith? What do these scriptures say to you? What are the implications?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Hi Grandpa,

I am beginning to see your point of view. I am causing doubt in the Words of Christ.
I want to say something very difficult to take on board if one is scared and fearful.
Our first understanding of Christs words is not necessarily what He meant.

Jesus is not doubted because of the cross. The cross states for all eternity He loves His people.
It also states He judges and condemns sinners, with a ferocity that cannot be truly understood,
but is absolute. The covenant with Israel is a story of compromise, of failure and reconciliation,
time and time again. But still at the end, people desired the worlds glory and ways over Gods
ways.

When we are secure in Christ, and I mean rooted and grounded in His love, to the depths of our
souls and hearts, we can begin to ask, what did Jesus mean?

He meant if you make it through, the promises are true, when you look back you will see what
seemed like a phrase we desperately cling to, is a small part of the wealth of life we have in Him.

Jesus asks us to learn about love, learn about vulnerability and pain, learn about living with an
open heart. This is the way of the cross, of accepting the cost and pain to share love and be
miss understood, trampled on, ignored, but through it all blaze like a light sent from heaven.