Ask away.. I am willing to answer any question any about my biblical beliefs
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Acts 2
4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
agree. the miracle of Pentecost.
uh...huh?
1 Corinthians 14:2
For the person who speaks in another language is not actually speaking to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is talking about secrets by the Spirit.
Speaketh not unto men - Does not speak so that people can understand him. His address is really not made to people, that is, to the church. He might have this faculty without being able to speak to the edification of the church. It is possible that the power of speaking foreign languages and of prophesying were sometimes united in the same person; but it is evident that the apostle speaks of them as different endowments, and they probably were found usually in different individuals
But unto God - It is as if he spoke to God. No one could understand him but God. This must evidently refer to the addresses "in the church," when Christians only were present, or when those only were present who spoke the same language, and who were unacquainted with foreign tongues. Paul says that "there" that faculty would be valueless compared with the power of speaking in a manner that should edify the church. He did not undervalue the power of speaking foreign languages when foreigners were present, or when they went to preach to foreigners; see 1 Corinthians 14:22. It was only when it was needless, when all present spoke one language, that he speaks of it as of comparatively little value.
For no man understandeth him - That is, no man in the church, since they all spoke the same language, and that language was different from what was spoken by him who was endowed with the gift of tongues. As God only could know the import of what he said, it would be lost upon the church, and would be useless.
Barnes' <<<< CHOOSE ANY HISTORIC COMMENTATOR....known languages.
anybody who really wanted to know the truth that the Pentecostal languages were the known languages of the world can do so. it's right in the text. but, oddly...many don't want to know.
this very same foreign language gift for the kick-start of the church and the Great Commission is the one discussed by Paul in 1 Corinthians. they were showing off and speaking in the languages they were supernaturally endowed with, the languages of:
Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians
and likely others.
what?
huh?
just 10 minutes study would show the interpreter was for the unknown language - same PENTECOST GIFT!
another miraculous gift, complementary to the gift of languages....ceased...like the rest: CANON.
nothing to do with glossolalia
1 Corinthians 14:28
But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God
~
Cessationism Defended
by Dave Stevens
There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God.
I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer......
http://www.realgospel.org/articles/Cessationism-Defended
4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
agree. the miracle of Pentecost.
uh...huh?
1 Corinthians 14:2
For the person who speaks in another language is not actually speaking to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is talking about secrets by the Spirit.
Speaketh not unto men - Does not speak so that people can understand him. His address is really not made to people, that is, to the church. He might have this faculty without being able to speak to the edification of the church. It is possible that the power of speaking foreign languages and of prophesying were sometimes united in the same person; but it is evident that the apostle speaks of them as different endowments, and they probably were found usually in different individuals
But unto God - It is as if he spoke to God. No one could understand him but God. This must evidently refer to the addresses "in the church," when Christians only were present, or when those only were present who spoke the same language, and who were unacquainted with foreign tongues. Paul says that "there" that faculty would be valueless compared with the power of speaking in a manner that should edify the church. He did not undervalue the power of speaking foreign languages when foreigners were present, or when they went to preach to foreigners; see 1 Corinthians 14:22. It was only when it was needless, when all present spoke one language, that he speaks of it as of comparatively little value.
For no man understandeth him - That is, no man in the church, since they all spoke the same language, and that language was different from what was spoken by him who was endowed with the gift of tongues. As God only could know the import of what he said, it would be lost upon the church, and would be useless.
Barnes' <<<< CHOOSE ANY HISTORIC COMMENTATOR....known languages.
anybody who really wanted to know the truth that the Pentecostal languages were the known languages of the world can do so. it's right in the text. but, oddly...many don't want to know.
this very same foreign language gift for the kick-start of the church and the Great Commission is the one discussed by Paul in 1 Corinthians. they were showing off and speaking in the languages they were supernaturally endowed with, the languages of:
Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians
and likely others.
what?
huh?
just 10 minutes study would show the interpreter was for the unknown language - same PENTECOST GIFT!
another miraculous gift, complementary to the gift of languages....ceased...like the rest: CANON.
nothing to do with glossolalia
1 Corinthians 14:28
But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God
~
Cessationism Defended
by Dave Stevens
There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God.
I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer......
http://www.realgospel.org/articles/Cessationism-Defended
i know your theology.
very well.
by all means please lay out what you believe.
do you have a doctrinal statement?
just in the last few posts we have:
you affirm some Pentecostal theology and practise some Charismatic activity.
you believe and teach in restored offices of prophet and apostles.
here's me:
Reformed (5 Solas)
Covenant (one people of God, one Israel, jew and gentile)
Cessationist
Amillennial
(anti-dispensational)
how about you?
very well.
by all means please lay out what you believe.
do you have a doctrinal statement?
just in the last few posts we have:
you affirm some Pentecostal theology and practise some Charismatic activity.
you believe and teach in restored offices of prophet and apostles.
here's me:
Reformed (5 Solas)
Covenant (one people of God, one Israel, jew and gentile)
Cessationist
Amillennial
(anti-dispensational)
how about you?
I believe every word of the Bible and am a New covenant/ New Testament believer. I am a follower of Christ, and not committed to any of mans teachings. I affirm the ones that agree with scripture and deny those that oppose it.
I agree with 2 of the 5 belief systems you listed. Covenant, and anti dispensational because God's word agrees with them. I oppose the other 3 because God's word opposes them.
I agree with 2 of the 5 belief systems you listed. Covenant, and anti dispensational because God's word agrees with them. I oppose the other 3 because God's word opposes them.
Originally Posted by 4runner
Paul spoke in a heavenly language...''the tongues of angels''.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Paul spoke in a heavenly language...''the tongues of angels''.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Paul is saying:
you guys...i know you got this miraculous gift of speaking in the gentile languages and stuff (see above in Acts).
i know its cool. and that God is revealing new things (the languages were also revelatory gifts).
but, if you don't have an interpreter there (i'm writing a letter because i am an Apostle [and a prophet] and i have the ultimate authority under Christ to instruct and correct you), don't speak.
nobody will understand you if you're speaking the language of the Elamites and you got no Elamites or interpreter there.
you're just showing off. this isn't LOVE for the church, it's CHAOS.
you guys know that i speak more languages than all of you (the person gifted with one perhaps 2 languages)...i'm an hebrew, a roman citizen, i speak greek, etc.
but i'd rather speak one word in a language that you guys know than 10,000 words in a language you don't know.
in fact, even if i spoke the languages of angels or hummingbirds, i'd just be making noise because it's not out of LOVE for the church when i don't use the miraculous Pentecost language gifts PROPERLY.
goodnight 4runner.
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Paul is saying:
you guys...i know you got this miraculous gift of speaking in the gentile languages and stuff (see above in Acts).
i know its cool. and that God is revealing new things (the languages were also revelatory gifts).
but, if you don't have an interpreter there (i'm writing a letter because i am an Apostle [and a prophet] and i have the ultimate authority under Christ to instruct and correct you), don't speak.
nobody will understand you if you're speaking the language of the Elamites and you got no Elamites or interpreter there.
you're just showing off. this isn't LOVE for the church, it's CHAOS.
you guys know that i speak more languages than all of you (the person gifted with one perhaps 2 languages)...i'm an hebrew, a roman citizen, i speak greek, etc.
but i'd rather speak one word in a language that you guys know than 10,000 words in a language you don't know.
in fact, even if i spoke the languages of angels or hummingbirds, i'd just be making noise because it's not out of LOVE for the church when i don't use the miraculous Pentecost language gifts PROPERLY.
goodnight 4runner.
GROW UP. stop corrupting my Lord's Plan and Will and Words.
What is an Unknown Tongue?
The Greek word for Tongue is glossa. This word is defined by Thayer's Greek Lexicon as: a tongue, i.e. the language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations: Acts 2:11. Throughout the New Testament the word tongue is clearly a language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations. The concept that a tongue is a language unknown to mankind may come in part because of the way the King James Version translates certain passages. The King James Version added the word unknown before the word tongue in their translation. The word unknown is never found before the word tongue in any of the original manuscripts. Understand that the translators of King James Version never intended to show or imply that it was a part of the original writing of Paul. They KJV translators often inserted a word that they felt would help the reader understand what the original text was saying. Because of the great task of translating one language to another (as here they were translating Greek into English) sometimes it is necessary to do this. But when they did it, they put the inserted word in italics. So it says in the text of the KJV, “…unknown tongues…” This lets the reader know that the word unknown is not part of the original manuscripts. And in this case, this probably causes a lot of confusion. If the word “unknown” was used to say that a tongue was a real human language unknown to the person speaking the tongue, then this is a valid insertion of the word. But if we take the word “unknown” to mean a language unknown to mankind, such as an angelic langauge, then this word is wrong. The best thing to do here is read the Bible as written in the original manuscripts and interpreted properly by most modern versions, which did not insert the word 'unknown'.
One of the best examples of the definition of a toungue is found in Acts 2 where the apostles began to speak in languages that they were not able to speak before. We see here that the apostles spoke specific languages that already existed. Speaking in tongues was nothing more than the supernatural ability to speak in a real human language.
Acts 2:6-12 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" NIV
Notice here that these apostles were speaking in known languages and those that heard them speak in tongues heard them speaking in their own language. So we can read clearly that this gift of tongues was not some unknown language. In fact the Bible lists the specific native languages that were spoken.
Tongues in the Bible were real human languages that were known to man (They were never Angelic Tongues. See that page for further details). The gift of tongues was the ability to speak in a foreign language without having to study and learn that specific language. The tongue was known to someone, just not the speaker. This gift is no longer given today.
Unknown Tongues
What is an Unknown Tongue?
The Greek word for Tongue is glossa. This word is defined by Thayer's Greek Lexicon as: a tongue, i.e. the language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations: Acts 2:11. Throughout the New Testament the word tongue is clearly a language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations. The concept that a tongue is a language unknown to mankind may come in part because of the way the King James Version translates certain passages. The King James Version added the word unknown before the word tongue in their translation. The word unknown is never found before the word tongue in any of the original manuscripts. Understand that the translators of King James Version never intended to show or imply that it was a part of the original writing of Paul. They KJV translators often inserted a word that they felt would help the reader understand what the original text was saying. Because of the great task of translating one language to another (as here they were translating Greek into English) sometimes it is necessary to do this. But when they did it, they put the inserted word in italics. So it says in the text of the KJV, “…unknown tongues…” This lets the reader know that the word unknown is not part of the original manuscripts. And in this case, this probably causes a lot of confusion. If the word “unknown” was used to say that a tongue was a real human language unknown to the person speaking the tongue, then this is a valid insertion of the word. But if we take the word “unknown” to mean a language unknown to mankind, such as an angelic langauge, then this word is wrong. The best thing to do here is read the Bible as written in the original manuscripts and interpreted properly by most modern versions, which did not insert the word 'unknown'.
One of the best examples of the definition of a toungue is found in Acts 2 where the apostles began to speak in languages that they were not able to speak before. We see here that the apostles spoke specific languages that already existed. Speaking in tongues was nothing more than the supernatural ability to speak in a real human language.
Acts 2:6-12 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" NIV
Notice here that these apostles were speaking in known languages and those that heard them speak in tongues heard them speaking in their own language. So we can read clearly that this gift of tongues was not some unknown language. In fact the Bible lists the specific native languages that were spoken.
Tongues in the Bible were real human languages that were known to man (They were never Angelic Tongues. See that page for further details). The gift of tongues was the ability to speak in a foreign language without having to study and learn that specific language. The tongue was known to someone, just not the speaker. This gift is no longer given today.
Unknown Tongues
Here is the best way to understand scripture.
1) Forget everything you thought you knew, and read it with a blank slate.
2) Believe the literal plain sense meaning of the scriptures.
3) Reject any belief that you were taught growing up or in church or in seminary, that does not line up with what the Bible actually teaches.
4) Most importantly ask the Holy Spirit to open you eyes to see, open your ears to hear, open you mind to understand, and open you heart to accept His truth
If you do these 4 simple things and you truly want to learn the truth, God will reveal His pure truth to you.
This is my hermeneutics, and I learned it from God.
1) Forget everything you thought you knew, and read it with a blank slate.
2) Believe the literal plain sense meaning of the scriptures.
3) Reject any belief that you were taught growing up or in church or in seminary, that does not line up with what the Bible actually teaches.
4) Most importantly ask the Holy Spirit to open you eyes to see, open your ears to hear, open you mind to understand, and open you heart to accept His truth
If you do these 4 simple things and you truly want to learn the truth, God will reveal His pure truth to you.
This is my hermeneutics, and I learned it from God.
i do not respect people who set themselves up as teachers, and are false through and through, are shown TRUTH and continue in their error.
i repsect people who LEARN.
i gave you TRUTH and you make it about me so you don't have to address the THOUSANDS of refutations of Montanism.
what about the above study PROVING the KJV translators added UNKNOWN?
EVERYBODY knows that.
you plan to address it?
cuz i've got HUNDREDS MORE.
i repsect people who LEARN.
i gave you TRUTH and you make it about me so you don't have to address the THOUSANDS of refutations of Montanism.
what about the above study PROVING the KJV translators added UNKNOWN?
EVERYBODY knows that.
you plan to address it?
cuz i've got HUNDREDS MORE.