ask Word of Faith! WOF

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trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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kaylagrl

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LOL, Kayla.. Just making the point that people who are straightforward, like Lauren, myself, and many others here, get called names for daring to speak truth that not everyone wants to hear..

Really,
never happened to me. Must be because Im such a quiet,subdued type person.:)
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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My only observation is you went to 5 different charismatic churches and obviously were happy
with them enough to leave one and join the other.

What was it about the fellowships you liked? What were there strengths?

I love the worship, seeing people moved and touched by the Holy Spirit.
It is what we do with this that makes the real difference.
​Here's a good example of why observations aren't always accurate. ;)

We were brand new Christians. We didn't know what to look out for or what to look for. And no, we were not happy with them at all. When we would read our bible and see what was being done or said in church, they weren't lining up.

We were saved in a Baptist Church. The 2 couples that were Charismatic that took us under their wings we loved very much. So to us, that's all we knew of church so far. Within a month or two, those two couple left the Baptist church and began going to a different Baptist church that was Charismatic. So we went with them.

We were non denominational in our thinking because we didn't grown up in a traditional church. We were brand new to anything Christian.

I would say that we loved the people in these churches, we loved the worship. We did not like the practices, teachings, preachings that were going on. But we were brand new babes in Christ and were doing the best we could.

Also, as we read God's word, we did believe that the gifts are for today. But in saying that, we can't make these things happen in the flesh and that's what WOFers do. They try to force God's hand.

What is so strange to me when I come across them is that they are such the opposite of what their title claims they are. Word of Faith? When I was in those churches, I didn't even hear that word for a long time. And when I did, I didn't even know what it meant.

But Word of Faith? Really? The Word? Faith? Neither have a thing to do with the Word of God nor with Faith in God.

I would call it the Twisted Word of Me-Faith. That's really how I see it. The word of God is taken out of it's context and twisted to form it into the doctrines of the Word of Faith movement. Faith is twisted into no longer trusting in God, but trusting in your own self to bring about money, healing and etc. The focus is on self and not on God. The person is deceived into thinking they're trusting God, but they are trusting in faith that they can bring about what ever it is they're seeking. They just need to pray more, tithe more, do more.


 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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Back in 1998, when I first got Rheumatoid Arthritis, I was in extreme pain and getting deformities. Two old and close friends, who had been Pentecostal, told me that if I wasn't healed, I didn't have enough faith. So they prayed for me, and when I was not healed, they told me I was somehow blocking the will of God.

That started one of the worst times in my life. I love Jesus with all my heart, soul, body and mind, but instead of the comfort and joy of the Lord, I had a horrible burden I could not bear with RA, and judgement and condemnation by two people thoroughly immersed in this evil heresy. I did not read my Bible or pray for 2 years, I was so depressed from the pain, and feeling totally abandoned by God.

Then, the one woman, who was an evangelist, and ordained by Kenneth Copeland and had a huge church on Vancouver Island, got breast cancer. She refuses chemo and radiation. But her whole church claimed healing according to the tenets of the Word Faith movement. She spent all her time in praying, and "praying" the Word over herself. The doctors begged her to take treatment, but she told them she was healed.

Ten months later, she died, after the cancer metastasized, and drove her insane when it entered her brain. Very sad to lose a friend, who might not have had to die, had she not been in this terrible heretical cult.

The second friend started having prostate problems, which he was prayed for. He was not healed, and he was in such pain he finally got someone to drive him to the ER, where he was immediately taken for surgery. He has not had another problem, probably 15 years later, although he does have to do regular check ups. That sort of turned him away from WF, although he remains a Pentecostal.

So there you have it - Word Faith doctrine, discouraging me, killing one friend, and another realizing how wrong it is.

I have an excellent pamphlet written by one of the top Greek scholars in the world, Gordan Fee, who is a Pentecostal, who remains committed to divine healing, but never on command. He is of course, totally against the prosperity gospel. The pamphlet goes through both Prosperity and Word of Faith healing, and takes them apart. Healing is NOT included in the atonement, a very wrong reading of Isaiah 53. Prosperity is just wrong, although God does provide for our needs.

I will say, that despite the on-going health issues, that God has always provided for my husband and I and our children in marvelous ways. I praise him for that! But, I have never claimed it, just thanked God for his daily provision.

As far as healing, I know people are healed. But I was not, and I grew more from having RA, than in the 20 years of my Christian walk when I was healthy.

"More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out by the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5

That is my life verse, and it has shown me that character, which is eternal, is so much more important than physical healing. I would love to be healed, but if I never am, I will rejoice in the blessings God has given me, the most important of which is knowing Christ.

Sorry to all of you who have heard this story over and over. If you want to actually discuss the false doctrine, and why the Word of Faith is wrong, deceiving, and not Biblical I would be happy to argue Scripture. I don't see that happening at all in this thread, so I won't get into it, unless someone wants to know the truth about what the Bible actually says.
i'm so sorry sister, i ask for forgiveness just for the group i am part of that has hurt you, but we are not all like that.

the healing class im in teaches that there are two streams to healing the supernatural, and the natural. they teach that it is not just about your faith, and it is a battle! that you fight against the enemy. you build scripture and you fight a war. yes some people are blessed and are healed instantly, i have a friend whos mom walked out of her wheel chair. but i went through a war with my mom, we saw the cancer ravage her, but we stood our ground and fought with Gods word, and after 3 long years we won our war.

if you would like to talk about WoF i am open, thought it might be easier to Pm than to do it here lol
 
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Did it last month, year or week? No.

Jesus healed his vision first and then, in one minute, the brain working with visuals. It takes some time for brain to accomodate to vision, for example in children. Jesus made this quickly, another miracle.

So this were not "two phases of healing" but one healing and then one fast change of man´s brain.

But he was healed immediatelly. It would only take time to get used to it, naturaly.
So the previously lame people who got right up and jumped and ran, didn't need time to adjust... for atrophied muscles to strengthen, or anything? No, I think this passage in Mark was specifically given to us for a reason. Jesus didn't just "forget to include this man's brain in the initial healing. And in all the other instances of healing blind people, the brain didn't need to "catch up."
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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Whole heatedly? Interesting telling typo, but I will tell you what I have heard of word of faith so far:
It teaches name it, and claim it doctrine.
not all do, and its taken out of context a lot. what we do is if God(through His word says He will do something we take it as it is, i will confess scripture over my life and He provides. and He has not failed me yet. there have also been times i start to pray for something and i just know i shouldn't so i stop, we have extreme and then there is the middle of the road.

It teaches people to honor lusts of their flesh instead of put it to death.
not at all, trust me whoever or what ever you got that from is way off, i confess that my flesh is dead everyday, because i know living sacrifices tend to want to try and crawl off the alter, the same way i use scripture for necessity i us it for righteousness, holiness, and every aspect of God in my life.

It makes prayer into a magic wand and God into a genie in a bottle of human desires....
again there is an extreme and the middle of the road, and most of us stay on the road. we know we cant ask for anything outside of Gods word.

So what do you really teach and believe?
thank you for the questions Ariel! if you have any more ill answer them
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
Lauren you have been straight cruel to men and others in this thread, but with what i have read i see you, and trust me i have a good 1 Corinthians 3:1 rebuking for you sister, i love you and it is not un-Christian, but trust me its even in your testimony.



you are childish

I have a very good rapport with quite a few men on here as well as women

I speak very straightforward and if a men does that, he is respected...women not so much

however, what you say is a minority as far as opinions go...I was called bitter by someone on here yesterday simply because I called them out on and asked a straight forward question and then they attacked me personally

I will post that later on today to show how it went down cause I am not taking it...I don't have to...I never went off topic but that person got nasty with me just cause he could not answer my question without backing down off his stance

now you need to grow up and quit trying to make it seem I am a monster...I have worked with a good number of pastors and never had a falling out with one single one...I have been looked up to and respected for my honesty and desire to help others ability to help

you are just starting out and you cannot smartmouth people and pick on them...you are picking on me..I am not cruel..

and I am far from bitter...I have been married 16 years to a Christian man and we are not bitter with each other...we have grown in our relationship over the years and are happy with each other and love each other

that is not a bitter woman...the words expressed by yourself and the other person are indicative of a man who wants to hurt

get over yourselves...I have to sit here and read that crap and it is a lie from the pit...not truth at all!!

get some experience under your belt...I am much older than you, have plenty of experience and have seen all kinds of spoiled brats who think they are someone when they are infants

I think nothing of myself in any sense other than what is true before God and that just sets wrong with some folks it seems

and you DO NOT love me...not at all

and since I have never written any testimony, I don't see how you would say anything about it

I am really and trully fed up with the bullying...there are women on here that actually are shrews...I am not one

they just hide out in a different forum

I don't accept your false words...they are not from God and I don't care if you and 20 more come and say they are...you simply oppose the truth

this is a forum...I have never seen the like as this forum with the opinions of others flying around and folks trying to make others submit to them by bullying and name calling and saying God told me to tell you

it's malarkey and soulish manipulation...I'm NOT under your authority in any way shape or form...
 
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wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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What is the WOF doctrine for sanctification?
just like every other WoF doctrine, what ever God says about it, He says be holy for I am holy. living and becoming the new creature is the biggest part of spiritual growth, its the transfer from a flesh governed life to a bible formed beliefs governing the life.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
[video=youtube;U9t-slLl30E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9t-slLl30E[/video]
eyup

:eek:

and if you defend yourself, then it must prove you need a wanna be pastor to rebuke you



they can dish it out but oh my...a woman has no business flinging it back

well, I hung out with boys mostly...so I learned a few things growing up
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
Why is it that whenever someone speaks cold, hard, straight truth, they get called names like mean, bitter and cruel? I'm sorry, but there are MANY here who are mean, bitter and cruel most of the time. But personally I would not use those 3 specific words to describe Lauren. :)



check it out

check it out

it's women who get called that by men

they are insecure...my husband is secure. He knows he is a man.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
just like every other WoF doctrine, what ever God says about it, He says be holy for I am holy. living and becoming the new creature is the biggest part of spiritual growth, its the transfer from a flesh governed life to a bible formed beliefs governing the life.
WOF takes a kernel of truth and takes it way out in left field. A pity.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
When some local WoF church teaches or tries to persuade its members not to go to doctor, to end the treatment etc, I think it is a real criminal act like the instigating to commit suicide is.

I wonder why the police does not act in such cases. I think in Russia it took place and some people were put to prison.
WOF is also quite a bit about controlling...anything that tries to control a person is most absolutely NOT of God

and the Holy Spirit is not cruel and does not take advantage over people nor does He beg for funds

interesting about Russia...have not heard 'bout that
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Then alot of the men here must be wickedly insecure.. because it's usually the men that call me names.. They just don't like taking back the crap that they sling out.. If ya can't take it, don't dish it out. JMO
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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you are childish

I have a very good rapport with quite a few men on here as well as women

I speak very straightforward and if a men does that, he is respected...women not so much

however, what you say is a minority as far as opinions go...I was called bitter by someone on here yesterday simply because I called them out on and asked a straight forward question and then they attacked me personally

I will post that later on today to show how it went down cause I am not taking it...I don't have to...I never went off topic but that person got nasty with me just cause he could not answer my question without backing down off his stance

now you need to grow up and quit trying to make it seem I am a monster...I have worked with a good number of pastors and never had a falling out with one single one...I have been looked up to and respected for my honesty and desire to help others ability to help

you are just starting out and you cannot smartmouth people and pick on them...you are picking on me..I am not cruel..

and I am far from bitter...I have been married 16 years to a Christian man and we are not bitter with each other...we have grown in our relationship over the years and are happy with each other and love each other

that is not a bitter woman...the words expressed by yourself and the other person are indicative of a man who wants to hurt

get over yourselves...I have to sit here and read that crap and it is a lie from the pit...not truth at all!!

get some experience under your belt...I am much older than you, have plenty of experience and have seen all kinds of spoiled brats who think they are someone when they are infants

I think nothing of myself in any sense other than what is true before God and that just sets wrong with some folks it seems

and you DO NOT love me...not at all

and since I have never written any testimony, I don't see how you would say anything about it

I am really and trully fed up with the bullying...there are women on here that actually are shrews...I am not one

they just hide out in a different forum

I don't accept your false words...they are not from God and I don't care if you and 20 more come and say they are...you simply oppose the truth

this is a forum...I have never seen the like as this forum with the opinions of others flying around and folks trying to make others submit to them by bullying and name calling and saying God told me to tell you

it's malarkey and soulish manipulation...I'm NOT under your authority in any way shape or form...
ok lets get started...the original post of the thread.

whats up, i'm part of a WOF church, actully Rhema one of the biggest! and i go to there bible college and plan to minister ast a WOF pastor one day. i thought it would be nice to answer and questions you might have, confirm WOF teaching to you, and clear up any misconceptions might be out there,
post #2 off topic right there, no question, just your wrong nothing but a condescending response...not to mention that you followed me just because i stood up to you being a bully in another thread.

word of faith, or WOF as it is commonly called, is sadly emphasizing one aspect of scripture and in doing so, have hurt many people, misled people and denied the faith of those who are hurting by telling them their faith is not strong enough

you can minister whatever you want, however a balanced interpretation of scripture is what we are told to minister from

it's interesting you come here and make this thread, after telling me I should not have refuted the words of someone in another thread who spoke angry and sinful words...

maybe you don't really believe words count as much as you say?
now on to my theory of you being hurt in WoF!

however, I have literally seen a pastor's wife die because she refused treatment for cancer because she had it in her head that God would be angry at her for not using her faith

her husband was not extreme like that, but he had to watch her die and it makes me ...
I attended one of those conferences where you are supposed to reach your inner hurt self and visualize Jesus coming in and healing you and blah blah blah...only it was not advertised as such
I listened but when the speaker said it was time to practice what we had heard, I just prayed...it was weird and people were acting abnormal...sorry...it was not the Holy Spirit' look around...Christianity is a mess...it ain't working...none of it
theres two, come on let me get another witness, you must have a family member in WoF.

and lets go to you responses...

oh please...I'm the same person you are giving unwanted advice to in another thread

reality check!!!!

WOF is not the gospel!

we are called to make peace but know your scripture...peace sometimes comes with a price

honestly? you are really ticking me off if I have not made that plain enough for you

done with this conversation...you need to learn when to speak and when it's not really your turn
i bet before your conversion your anger was off the charts sister, you are CRUEL, MEAN, ANGRY right Now. and thats just me calling a cat a cat, or a dog a dog, you are what you are, you are angry over this for some personal reason and you are a forum bully. but hey your carnal what can i expect.

1 Corinthians 3King James Version (KJV)

3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

i made a thread you have come in and from the begging only cause chaos and disorder, completely off topic the whole time, and cruel. now if you want to talk like adults, ask me some questions like the topic states, or quite frankly get off of my thread that i started you bully, I'm done with you being childish!
 
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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Wanderer, you might want to keep in mind that YOU are just as carnal as you say Lauren is. In fact, we are ALL carnal. Sinful, carnal humans. Just an observation. :)
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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Wanderer, you might want to keep in mind that YOU are just as carnal as you say Lauren is. In fact, we are ALL carnal. Sinful, carnal humans. Just an observation. :)
amen sister you are right, i have my flaws and my own flesh, but in this moment Lauren is taken this thread and made it a circus from the beginning, i have tried to bring it back but she doesn't want to. she is responding from a place of hostility
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
not really sister, well not most of us. ask me a question though, and i will answer it for you

I have a wonderful pastor friend who believes WOF. I think the world of him though I disagree with him. So I don't need to ask questions,I know the belief.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Well, one thing you're gonna learn real fast is, that most threads get turned into a circus, sooner or later..lol


amen sister you are right, i have my flaws and my own flesh, but in this moment Lauren is taken this thread and made it a circus from the beginning, i have tried to bring it back but she doesn't want to. she is responding from a place of hostility
 
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