Attack of the Judaizers

[BradC]

Jesus neither took away nor removed any of the law, but fulfilled all and every aspect of the law (Mt 5:17:18) through his death, burial and resurrection (Jn 19:30, it is finished or it has been fufilled) so that we could be dead to the law and alive unto Christ for righteousness by faith, but you won't understand that (Rom 7:4-6, Gal 2:19-21, Rom 8:2-4, Lk 24:44). We are crucified with Christ who fulfilled the law, so why would we put ourselves under the law when Christ has put us under grace, the grace and truth that fulfilled the law that was crucified in the person of Christ. Why would we put ourselves under the law of righteousness when we have the righteousness of Christ by grace through faith? The law can do nothing to make me righteous or give me eternal life, it is obsolete and ineffective in providing these things that come by faith in Christ.

 

[john832]

Assertions without demonstration are without merit.

Same stuff, different day. If you have no answer, dodge 'em.

 

[danschance]

Now which one of those Laws did Jesus take away?

Jesus came to fulfill the law not do away with it. That is why circumcision of the foreskin is now circumcision of the heart. If the Mosaic law is still valid than why did Paul state:

But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit. Romans 7:6

 

[danschance]

How about explaining why Christ lied here?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

John, at the time this was still in the OT. They were under the Mosaic law at the time. Now we are in the NT times.

But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit. Romans 7:6

 

[Elin]

Previously asked and answered.

Please take care of your unfinished business before bringing other business to the table.

There are previously asked on the table which you have not yet answered, here, here and here.

I answered your questions, but the problem is, the answers are not what you wanted to here.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

 

[john832]

John, at the time this was still in the OT. They were under the Mosaic law at the time. Now we are in the NT times.

At the end of the Book it says this...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The message is consistent.

 

[RickyZ]

You have to ask what's the purpose? The purpose of the law was to give us guidelines to keep us from sinning. The purpose of sacrifice was to cover us when we sinned anyway. Christ combined the two in His perfect acts. So now instead of a written law on paper, we have the Holy Spirit re-writing that law in our hearts, giving us guidance from within instead of without.

And Christ in His sacrifice gave us the ultimate covering for when we sin anyway.

The law is not to be ignored, but it also not to be sought after as a means of guidance. We are to seek the Holy Spirit's translation of it into our hearts, and find guidance from that.

 

[danschance]

At the end of the Book it says this...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The message is consistent.

Yes we must keep the commandments of Christ, not the law of Moses. I have stated that many times.

 

[Angela53510]

"and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—" Phil. 3:9

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Yes we must keep the commandments of Christ, not the law of Moses. I have stated that many times.

309. To heed the call of every prophet in each generation, provided that he neither adds to, nor takes away from the Torah (Deut.18:15)

Jesus would have been called a false prophet if he added or took away from the Torah. You need to take a closer look at what Jesus is telling you about Himself and His relation with God and the Torah.

Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Deu 18:14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And who is that Prophet from among their brethren, and He speaks unto them all that I shall command Him?

And Jesus said (more than once) Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

(Deuteronomy 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

(Deuteronomy 12:32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

[danschance]

309. To heed the call of every prophet in each generation, provided that he neither adds to, nor takes away from the Torah (Deut.18:15)

Jesus would have been called a false prophet if he added or took away from the Torah. You need to take a closer look at what Jesus is telling you about Himself and His relation with God and the Torah.

Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Deu 18:14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And who is that Prophet from among their brethren, and He speaks unto them all that I shall command Him?

And Jesus said (more than once) Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

(Deuteronomy 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

(Deuteronomy 12:32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

You are guilty of twisting scripture into your own idol. Yes, Jesus said this above because He was a Jew and until His death He was under the Mosaic laws. This is no longer the case for Christians once the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles. Here is all the proof you need if you can discern them:

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
Context proves this is specifically referring to the Mosaic laws. It clearly states that the Mosaic laws are not on the believer.

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Gal. 3:23-25
Note how this verse states we were held captive or imprisoned to the Mosaic law. Christ set us free from it. Yet you seek to prove the contrary.

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

Conclusion
I have listed four verses that clearly state in no uncertain terms That we are:
1) The Mosaic law is brought to an end.
2) The Mosaic law No longer keeps us captive as Christ thru faith has set us free.
3) The Mosaic law is abolished.
4) We are released from the Mosaic law.

This proves your statements above are false. I will not accuse you of blatant deception as I believe you have been deceived into thinking that the Mosaic laws are current and we are under them by the enemy. Satan uses this to bring believers to hell as the bible says: "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." Gal 5:4

 

[WomanLovesTX]

You are guilty of twisting scripture into your own idol. Yes, Jesus said this above because He was a Jew and until His death He was under the Mosaic laws. This is no longer the case for Christians once the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles. Here is all the proof you need if you can discern them:

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
Context proves this is specifically referring to the Mosaic laws. It clearly states that the Mosaic laws are not on the believer.

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Gal. 3:23-25
Note how this verse states we were held captive or imprisoned to the Mosaic law. Christ set us free from it. Yet you seek to prove the contrary.

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

Conclusion
I have listed four verses that clearly state in no uncertain terms That we are:
1) The Mosaic law is brought to an end.
2) The Mosaic law No longer keeps us captive as Christ thru faith has set us free.
3) The Mosaic law is abolished.
4) We are released from the Mosaic law.

This proves your statements above are false. I will not accuse you of blatant deception as I believe you have been deceived into thinking that the Mosaic laws are current and we are under them by the enemy. Satan uses this to bring believers to hell as the bible says: "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." Gal 5:4

2 Corinthians 3:13-16 2Cor. 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2Cor. 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 2Cor. 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[Elin]

2 Corinthians 3:13-16 2Cor. 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2Cor. 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 2Cor. 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Yes, only in Christ is the veil of dullness, which prevents Israel from seeing Christ in the writings of Moses, taken away.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Originally Posted by WomanLovesTX

2 Corinthians 3:13-16 2Cor. 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 2Cor. 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 2Cor. 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Yes, only in Christ is the veil of dullness, which prevents Israel from seeing Christ in the writings of Moses, taken away.

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Co 3:15 Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart.
2Co 3:16 "But," says the Torah, "whenever someone turns to Adonai, the veil is taken away."
2Co 3:17 Now, "Adonai" in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of Adonai is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by Adonai the Spirit.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'They will all be taught by Adonai.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — he has seen the Father.

Have you been taught by the Lord/Adonai? Are you listening to the Father and learning from Him? If not, how can you come to Jesus?

 

[Elin]

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Co 3:15 Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart.
2Co 3:16 "But," says the Torah, "whenever someone turns to Adonai, the veil is taken away."
2Co 3:17 Now, "Adonai" in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of Adonai is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by Adonai the Spirit.

Who authorized you to Judaize the original language of the NT writer from kurios (Lord) to Adonai?

Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'They will all be taught by Adonai.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

Who authorized you to Judaize the original language of the NT from theos (God) to Adonai?

Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — he has seen the Father.

Have you been taught by the Lord/Adonai? Are you listening to the Father and learning from Him? If not, how can you come to Jesus?

I have been taught according to the NT by the Holy Spirit of God who is the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

You are guilty of twisting scripture into your own idol. Yes, Jesus said this above because He was a Jew and until His death He was under the Mosaic laws. This is no longer the case for Christians once the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles. Here is all the proof you need if you can discern them:

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4
Context proves this is specifically referring to the Mosaic laws. It clearly states that the Mosaic laws are not on the believer.

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Gal. 3:23-25
Note how this verse states we were held captive or imprisoned to the Mosaic law. Christ set us free from it. Yet you seek to prove the contrary.

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

Conclusion
I have listed four verses that clearly state in no uncertain terms That we are:
1) The Mosaic law is brought to an end.
2) The Mosaic law No longer keeps us captive as Christ thru faith has set us free.
3) The Mosaic law is abolished.
4) We are released from the Mosaic law.

This proves your statements above are false. I will not accuse you of blatant deception as I believe you have been deceived into thinking that the Mosaic laws are current and we are under them by the enemy. Satan uses this to bring believers to hell as the bible says: "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." Gal 5:4

How offensive you can be! You are trying to be some kind of winner over a debate and are stooping to tactics of a short man to build himself up. No doubt, our understanding of the scriptures is different, but I do believe that from the Bible we see there is two sides to every coin. Perhaps, dear brother in Christ, our spiritual understanding is different. If you will, remember the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the one who stayed home (House of Judah) was jealous at the Father's love for the brother who went out into the world, lived unrighteously, came to his senses and returned back to his Father's house and a party was given in his honor for having coming to his senses and returning to his Father.

Or remember the parable of the Lost Sheep. Jesus said if one sheep is missing, He would leave the 99 to find the one. And when that one is found, throw a party and rejoice.

Or remember the parable of the Ten Virgins. Half are ready and half are not ready. Half are called foolish and half are called wise.

In all of Jesus parables, the Bible defines the parables. You just have to search the scriptures to find it.

So, please just take your judgmental view somewhere else who accepts your bullying tactics.

 

[danschance]

How offensive you can be! You are trying to be some kind of winner over a debate and are stooping to tactics of a short man to build himself up. No doubt, our understanding of the scriptures is different, but I do believe that from the Bible we see there is two sides to every coin. Perhaps, dear brother in Christ, our spiritual understanding is different. If you will, remember the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the one who stayed home (House of Judah) was jealous at the Father's love for the brother who went out into the world, lived unrighteously, came to his senses and returned back to his Father's house and a party was given in his honor for having coming to his senses and returning to his Father.

Or remember the parable of the Lost Sheep. Jesus said if one sheep is missing, He would leave the 99 to find the one. And when that one is found, throw a party and rejoice.

Or remember the parable of the Ten Virgins. Half are ready and half are not ready. Half are called foolish and half are called wise.

In all of Jesus parables, the Bible defines the parables. You just have to search the scriptures to find it.

So, please just take your judgmental view somewhere else who accepts your bullying tactics.

I have listed four verses which clearly state the Mosaic laws are not to be followed by Christians. It is complete undeniable proof that we are not under any Mosaic law or laws.

Most of your posts are about "torah". You even state Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, was "torah observant" even when I showed you explicit evidence to the contrary. You accuse me of wrong doing, yet with your own posts you prove my words.

 

[ServantStrike]

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

2Co 3:15 Yes, till today, whenever Moshe is read, a veil lies over their heart.
2Co 3:16 "But," says the Torah, "whenever someone turns to Adonai, the veil is taken away."
2Co 3:17 Now, "Adonai" in this text means the Spirit. And where the Spirit of Adonai is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 So all of us, with faces unveiled, see as in a mirror the glory of the Lord; and we are being changed into his very image, from one degree of glory to the next, by Adonai the Spirit.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'They will all be taught by Adonai.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God — he has seen the Father.

Have you been taught by the Lord/Adonai? Are you listening to the Father and learning from Him? If not, how can you come to Jesus?

This is yet a new form of man made tradition.

The Calvinists call it irresistable grace, the Arminians call it conditional election. I guess the Hebrew Roots types call it following the commandments so that God will lift the veil from their hearts.

Wow. The entire New Testament kind of flies in the face of that logic. The law does not save.

 

[john832]

You have to ask what's the purpose? The purpose of the law was to give us guidelines to keep us from sinning. The purpose of sacrifice was to cover us when we sinned anyway. Christ combined the two in His perfect acts. So now instead of a written law on paper, we have the Holy Spirit re-writing that law in our hearts, giving us guidance from within instead of without.

And Christ in His sacrifice gave us the ultimate covering for when we sin anyway.

The law is not to be ignored, but it also not to be sought after as a means of guidance. We are to seek the Holy Spirit's translation of it into our hearts, and find guidance from that.

Yet Paul says this...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Paul says it is a means of guidance.

 

[john832]

I have listed four verses which clearly state the Mosaic laws are not to be followed by Christians. It is complete undeniable proof that we are not under any Mosaic law or laws.

Most of your posts are about "torah". You even state Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, was "torah observant" even when I showed you explicit evidence to the contrary. You accuse me of wrong doing, yet with your own posts you prove my words.

Let me list some verses...

Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Here are three verses that tell us to hang ourselves quickly. See what happens when one ignores context and other plain scriptural passages?