Attack of the Judaizers

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BradC

Guest
Just out of curiosity, which laws did Jesus take away?
Which laws did Jesus put us under and what are the consequences for us when we violate or transgress those laws? Are we under the law or under grace since we have been placed and hid with Christ in God. You need to provide a sound and concrete answer, even if it appears to be legalistic.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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Which laws did Jesus put us under and what are the consequences for us when we violate or transgress those laws? Are we under the law or under grace since we have been placed and hid with Christ in God. You need to provide a sound and concrete answer, even if it appears to be legalistic.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now which one of those Laws did Jesus take away?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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Elin ,you have the right "picture"+ But start with GOD, #1 now, hang on God^^ 2 commands, now, on the 2 hang ^^^^^^^^^^10, now, on the 10 ,hang all the commands^^^^^^^^^^^++++ and the prophets,^^^^^^++++ now hang JESUS on all the pictures of all the laws and all the prophets,^JESUS, NOW see which commands does Jesus takes away?_____--------__-----ok, gone, NOW the ones left,^^^^^^^^^^+^^^^^^ The ones left by Jesus, are the ones we must obey to be a Christian. "Oh, how love I thy law" Hoffco
Which laws did Jesus put us under and what are the consequences for us when we violate or transgress those laws? Are we under the law or under grace since we have been placed and hid with Christ in God. You need to provide a sound and concrete answer, even if it appears to be legalistic.
Now, as I stated in the previous post, which Laws did Jesus take away?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Paganism????

This is a history lesson of the church that was founded, and finally established in completion in, or around 325AD, for the purpose of separating Jews from the Christian denomination, rather than unite them as God intended, and Paul had ministered.

Romans 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9-10 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Unlike the Apostle Paul, who was uniquely qualified to teach the Jewish people exactly how Yeshua/Jesus fit perfectly into their religion just as the prophecies foretold, the new converts who were Jews like Jesus and like Paul, were forced to abandon everything that had anything to do with the Jewish faith, starting less than a century after Christ’s crucifixion.

From: “Restoring The Jewishness Of The Gospel: A Message For Christians by David Stern

"Now That you're Christian, Have a Ham Sandwich!"
As far as Jewish evangelism is concerned, it became standard practice by the fourth century not to follow Paul's pattern of presenting the Gospel in the way most congenial to those for whom it was intended. On the contrary, it was not enough that a Jew should accept Jesus as his Messiah, Savior and Lord; he had to "convert to Christianity” which usually meant adopting an alien culture and sometimes required him to give up everything Jewish! The latter can be seen in this profession from the Church of Constantinople which Jews had to affirm if they wanted to join the holy Community of the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua [Jesus]:
"I renounce all customs, rites, legalisms, unleavened breads and sacrifices of lambs of the Hebrews, and all the other feasts of the Hebrews, sacrifices, prayers, aspersions, purifications, sanctifications and propitiations, and fasts, and new moons, and Sabbaths, and superstitions, and hymns and chants and observances and synagogues, and the food and drink of the Hebrews; in one word, I renounce absolutely everything Jewish, every law, rite and custom. . . . and if afterwards I shall wish to deny and return to Jewish superstition, or shall be found eating with Jews, or feasting with them, or secretly conversing and
condemning the Christian religion instead of openly confuting them and condemning their vain faith, then let the trembling of Cain and the leprosy of Gehazi cleave to me, as well as the legal punishments to which I acknowledge myself liable. And may I be anathema in the world to come, and may my soul be set down with Satan and the devils.”

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine “legalized” Christianity with the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313. Later, in A.D. 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Read more:What is the origin of the Catholic Church?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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Now, as I stated in the previous post, which Laws did Jesus take away?
The Lord Jesus didn't take away any Laws.

The Lord Jesus came to give us a New Way to God. A better Way.

When a person pursues this New Way they are no longer under the old way, the Law.

Galatians 3:24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Those who haven't come to Christ are still under the old way. A person can't be told by another person that they aren't under the old way anymore. Only Christ can show them the difference.

If you haven't come to Christ then all you have is a bunch of intellectual theology and "interpretation". You need to be righteous in your works plus an intellectual nod to the Lord Jesus for insurance.

If you have come to Christ you know that none of your works caused your salvation. You know none of your works caused Him to Love you. If you have come to Christ you know that in Him is all your blessing and there is nowhere else to go for additional blessing, not even to the Jewish way of laws and statutes. Because the Jewish way of laws and statutes is designed to bring you to your Saviour, Jesus Christ.

John 15:4-5

[SUP]4 [/SUP]
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
 
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BradC

Guest
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now which one of those Laws did Jesus take away?
Paul, by his own confession, was blameless as touching the righteousness of the law. The law said thou shalt not kill. Are you going to tell me that Paul was not responsible for having many Christians persecuted and did he not also breath out threatenings and slaughters that lead to their death (Acts 9:1)? Of course he did and he did it with much zeal going to the high priest, yet he violated the law of Moses and killed Christians when the law specifically said 'thou shalt not kill'. The Christians did nothing criminal nor did they take up arms against any, yet he had them slaughtered because they believed that Christ was the Son of God and professed his name as such. Paul believed he was obeying the law and doing what the law prescribed as righteousness. Why did God spare his life and not have him killed for violating the law, one of the 10 commandments? If you take a life your life shall be taken (Num 35:30,31).

Did Paul do these things ignorantly or was he decieved and blinded by the law in his ignorance that he so zealously kept and considered himself blameless from violating its righteousness? Why did Jesus spare the adulterous woman who was caught in the very act and not have her stoned according to the law (Lev 20:10)? If she was caught in the very act, where was the married man she committed the act with? There was two or more witness that caught her in the very act. Why do we never see Jesus having anyone judged according to the law? If he fulfilled the law in the way you believe he did, why was there never an occasion to pronounce judgment or punishment when the law was violated by many? My answer is simple, 'Mercy rejoices against judgment' (James 2:13). If any want to live by the law to keep it, then they should be as zealous for the retribution and punishment of the law who violate it. Are you of this persuasion or do you believe in keeping the law out of convenience?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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Paul, by his own confession, was blameless as touching the righteousness of the law. The law said thou shalt not kill. Are you going to tell me that Paul was not responsible for having many Christians persecuted and did he not also breath out threatenings and slaughters that lead to their death (Acts 9:1)? Of course he did and he did it with much zeal going to the high priest, yet he violated the law of Moses and killed Christians when the law specifically said 'thou shalt not kill'. The Christians did nothing criminal nor did they take up arms against any, yet he had them slaughtered because they believed that Christ was the Son of God and professed his name as such. Paul believed he was obeying the law and doing what the law prescribed as righteousness. Why did God spare his life and not have him killed for violating the law, one of the 10 commandments? If you take a life your life shall be taken (Num 35:30,31).

Did Paul do these things ignorantly or was he decieved and blinded by the law in his ignorance that he so zealously kept and considered himself blameless from violating its righteousness? Why did Jesus spare the adulterous woman who was caught in the very act and not have her stoned according to the law (Lev 20:10)? If she was caught in the very act, where was the married man she committed the act with? There was two or more witness that caught her in the very act. Why do we never see Jesus having anyone judged according to the law? If he fulfilled the law in the way you believe he did, why was there never an occasion to pronounce judgment or punishment when the law was violated by many? My answer is simple, 'Mercy rejoices against judgment' (James 2:13). If any want to live by the law to keep it, then they should be as zealous for the retribution and punishment of the law who violate it. Are you of this persuasion or do you believe in keeping the law out of convenience?
Now which one of those Laws did Jesus take away?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin ,you have the right "picture"+ But start with GOD, #1 now, hang on God^^ 2 commands, now, on the 2 hang ^^^^^^^^^^10, now, on the 10 ,hang all the commands^^^^^^^^^^^++++ and the prophets,^^^^^^++++ now hang JESUS on all the pictures of all the laws and all the prophets,^JESUS, NOW see which commands does Jesus takes away?_____--------__-----ok, gone, NOW the ones left,^^^^^^^^^^+^^^^^^ The ones left by Jesus, are the ones we must obey to be a Christian. "Oh, how love I thy law" Hoffco
"What part of "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Mt 22:40)
do you not understand?

What part of "I myself am not under the law." (1Co 9:20). . . "I am under Christ's law."
(1Co 9:21) do you not understand?

What part of "The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Gal 5:6)
do you not understand.

What part of "Love is the fulfillment (performance) of the law." (Ro 13:8, 9, 10)
do you not understand?

This is not a problem of interpretation, this is a problem of belief.

Take it up with the Son, whose revelation he spoke in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Please remember."believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is a command.!! Repent is a command" put off the old man and put on the new man ,is a command of Jesus walk in the light" is a command sanctify the Lord in your heart,is a command,, do all to the glory of God, is a command.
Yes, they are some of the NT commands we are to obey.

You left out Mt 22:37-40.

HOW mand more do I need to spell out for you hard head people??
I'm thinkin' the hard head and stiff neck of unbelief is in the post immediately above this one.
 
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Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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Just out of curiosity, which laws did Jesus take away?
Deuteronomy 4:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.


plainly it address the old covenant as the ten commandments it's right there



2 Corinthians 3:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.



[h=3]1 Timothy 1:5-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;




[h=3]Romans 7:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.



[h=3]Galatians 2:19[/h]King James Version (KJV)

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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Yes, they are some of the NT commands we are to obey.

You left out Mt 22:37-40.


I'm thinkin' the hard head and stiff neck of unbelief is in the post immediately above this one.
How about explaining why Christ lied here?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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How about explaining why Christ lied here?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Previously asked and answered.

Please take care of your unfinished business before bringing other business to the table.

There are previously asked on the table which you have not yet answered, here, here and here.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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Previously asked and answered.

Please take care of your unfinished business before bringing other business to the table.

There are previously asked on the table which you have not yet answered, here, here and here.
And another dodge. Apparently you have no answers. I answered your questions, but the problem is, the answers are not what you wanted to here.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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elin said:
Previously asked and answered.

Please take care of your unfinished business before bringing other business to the table.

There are previously asked on the table which you have not yet answered, here, here and here.
I answered your questions, but the problem is, the answers are not what you wanted to here.
Assertions without demonstration are without merit.
 
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phil112

Guest
oysters and footballs, Elin, oysters and footballs.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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oysters and footballs, Elin, oysters and footballs.
You're doin' it again! :)

Help, LT!

Footballs and unbelief?

The ruts formed in my mind by Biblical thinking are so deep I can't get out of them.
 
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phil112

Guest
oysters=pearls
footballs made of pigskins
:p