To be sure, the wording of those verses DOES NOT tell us that only SOME of the Old Testament saints rose, it tells us that out of those saints that were raised, SOME of them went into the holy city and appeared to many.
lol, we've been posting on this site for a while, KJV, so you know how words can fail to properly convey meaning. So let me just say that when I said "
at least the 24 elders" I wasn't saying "only" the 24 elders are in heaven. I meant, I believe "only" the
firstfruits of a greater resurrection harvest of saints were resurrected to life and are in heaven...but the
specific number of that firstfruit harvest of OT saints is unknown to any of us.
[You may have understood my meaning perfectly but I just wanted to clarify to make sure]
I see what you're saying with regard to wording. But in the same vein, if we rely on the exact wording, it equally doesn't tell us that ALL of the OT saints rose either. "Many" is
definitely more than "some"...but "many" still isn't all.
Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you believe
all OT saints resurrected to life, right? If so how do you reconcile that with the following passages below with regard to the resurrection?
Acts 2:25-36 (Peter speaking about David)
For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
So I read this as Peter saying that not even King David has ascended to heaven yet...and this is after the Messiah resurrected with many saints into heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:16- (Paul regarding the order of being made alive)
16 For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
I read this passage as saying that there are those, who belong to the Messiah, who still haven't been made alive yet because their lot is only at His coming...I would place King David in this lot because of what Peter said about him at Pentecost, and Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit at this point.
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So other can follow what you and I are particularly talking about in this thread I'm going to quickly summarize my position:
1. I believe that when a person dies they are dead (body returns to dust and breath of life returns to Almighty's nostrils). Others have labeled this a form of "soul sleep", either way, I believe the person ceases to be and is only a memory in the mind of Almighty.
2. I believe that unless a believer is resurrected
bodily they are not currently "alive" in heaven right now after their death (because of my first point), even after the Cross,
until the Messiah harvests/resurrects them.
3. I believe the very next event for one who dies is their judgment
when they are resurrected back to life in one of the harvests: firstfruits (already happened), wheat (a future gathering of believers at His 2nd coming) or grape (future judgment of non-believers after 1000 years)