Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

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Jul 23, 2018
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It is clear the postrib rapture belief definately hinges on "one coming"

Postrib,then,is impossible
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Again my challenge to postribs adherents.
Produce a verse or dynamic supporting a postrib rapture.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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There is not one sentence it says God is a Trinity either. And that goes the same for many other accepted doctrines as well. But it is perfectly clear to me that the pre-tribulation rapture is likewise boilerplate Biblical doctrine. There are tons of Scriptures that support it. More than enough to make it beyond disputing.
There's not a single scripture that supports pre-tribulation. I've been trying to tell you for a while.

...and yet just a few verses later the rest of the martyrs are in heaven as an innumerable number that were murdered DURING THE GT.

AND ARE NOW IN HEAVEN

But wait....now they are not under the altar,but in the general population.

Pretrib rapture....100% pretrib rapture.

Pretrib aligns perfectly.

Ironically the innumerable number also testifies against a postrib rapture.

You have to step back and look at 2 things
Purpose,and the bride.

Those 2 things belong solely to pretrib position.

You can listen to all the postrib doctrine teachers.

Those 2 points are totally missing.
Think about it. Postrib rapture has those points missing .

Those 2 points are the starting point.
How can anyone get a clear picture by leaving out the backbone of end times?????

You can't.
I'm 100% sure that you and a few other people who've been involved in this discussion grossly misunderstand the end times to the point of reckless disregard for truth.
 
D

DWR

Guest
Yes
The 10 virgins were waiting for Jesus.
Positioned to meet him.

Postrib rapture adherents have no use for waiting for Jesus.
In fact they look for the other guy to come first on a white horse.
Ironically....even the foolish virgins knew enough that it was wise to wait....but ended up facing the other guy due to unworthiness.

"But pray that you may be counted WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the world...."

Are any worthy?

It ain't ENTIRELY a "saved"issue.
IT IS SAVED AND WORTHY.

The oil was what determined worthy
You misunderstand-------------We are looking and waiting for Jesus return when He will put an end to all wickedness.
 
D

DWR

Guest
Again my challenge to postribs adherents.
Produce a verse or dynamic supporting a postrib rapture.
Rev. 20 speaks of the first resurrection and plainly states that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the first resurrection. Please note the tribulation saints that did not take the mark are in the first resurrection.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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There's not a single scripture that supports pre-tribulation. I've been trying to tell you for a while.



I'm 100% sure that you and a few other people who've been involved in this discussion grossly misunderstand the end times to the point of reckless disregard for truth.
Well, I have to tell you your opinions are unscriptural. And you are making the typical and usual mistakes. When I see evidence that contradicts a pre-TRIB rapture I will let you know!
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Rev. 20 speaks of the first resurrection and plainly states that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the first resurrection. Please note the tribulation saints that did not take the mark are in the first resurrection.
That's correct the tribulation saints who do not take the mark are part of the first resurrection. The pre TRIB rapture Christians are also part of the first resurrection, as are the 144,000 Israelites. The faithful Old Testament saints are also part of the first resurrection. All of these have been gifted with eternal life. Let's not forget about the two witnesses of Revelation.

Not complicated if you're paying attention.
 
D

DWR

Guest
That's correct the tribulation saints who do not take the mark are part of the first resurrection. The pre TRIB rapture Christians are also part of the first resurrection, as are the 144,000 Israelites. The faithful Old Testament saints are also part of the first resurrection. All of these have been gifted with eternal life. Let's not forget about the two witnesses of Revelation.

Not complicated if you're paying attention.
Paul states that the resurrection of the dead and our changing takes place in a twinkling of an eye.
But you are saying it will be at least seven years before all are resurrected and changed.
Don't you see how stupid that sounds?
That is just ignoring what Scripture teaches because it destroys the foundation your belief is built on.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Paul states that the resurrection of the dead and our changing takes place in a twinkling of an eye.
But you are saying it will be at least seven years before all are resurrected and changed.
Don't you see how stupid that sounds?
That is just ignoring what Scripture teaches because it destroys the foundation your belief is built on.
Nope. You are not and were not paying attention.

All Christians, every single one of them (other than the few "fruit firstfruits" Christians who were resurrected shortly after Christ was resurrected) enjoy a pre-tribulation rapture resurrection to glorified bodies. Quite frankly they seem to be the lucky ones.

The orderly sequence of the itemized groups of the "first resurrection" are laid out perfectly and unequivocally. It's not God's fault that it seems a little bit complicated.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Paul states that the resurrection of the dead and our changing takes place in a twinkling of an eye.
But you are saying it will be at least seven years before all are resurrected and changed.
Don't you see how stupid that sounds?
That is just ignoring what Scripture teaches because it destroys the foundation your belief is built on.
Paul said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery..." (this is something that had heretofore not as yet been disclosed, but which he has now been tasked with disclosing... thus, what he is about to say is not exactly the same thing that Martha and ALL of the OT saints already WELL-KNEW [note: they had not been promised "RAPTURE," see, only "RESURRECTION ['to stand again on the earth']")

...then he proceeds to get into the details of just what he has been tasked with disclosing... in particular:

--"THIS corruptible" (speaking of those members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [(also) the "we" of the text] who will have DIED up to that point-in-time being referred to); and

--"THIS mortal (speaking of the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto..." [same...])


... so this is speaking of a very specific group, and at a very specific point-in-time, regarding details that had heretofore not as yet been disclosed (unlike what Martha spoke of ['resurrection'] and WELL-KNEW about, in John 11:24).


[that's just for starters, on this point... this text being about "WE" shall not all sleep, but "WE" shall all be changed... (Paul has been tasked with disclosing "doctrinal truths" pertaining specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)])]
 
D

DWR

Guest
Nope. You are not and were not paying attention.

All Christians, every single one of them (other than the few "fruit firstfruits" Christians who were resurrected shortly after Christ was resurrected) enjoy a pre-tribulation rapture resurrection to glorified bodies. Quite frankly they seem to be the lucky ones.

The orderly sequence of the itemized groups of the "first resurrection" are laid out perfectly and unequivocally. It's not God's fault that it seems a little bit complicated.
As is always the case you people put your own spin on Scripture to support your belief.
Why not just read the Scripture and believe what it very plainly and clearly states.
It ain't complicated.
The first resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye not spread out over hundreds of years.
The blind leading the blind.
 
D

DWR

Guest
Paul said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery..." (this is something that had heretofore not as yet been disclosed, but which he has now been tasked with disclosing... thus, what he is about to say is not exactly the same thing that Martha and ALL of the OT saints already WELL-KNEW [note: they had not been promised "RAPTURE," see, only "RESURRECTION ['to stand again on the earth']")

...then he proceeds to get into the details of just what he has been tasked with disclosing... in particular:

--"THIS corruptible" (speaking of those members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [(also) the "we" of the text] who will have DIED up to that point-in-time being referred to); and

--"THIS mortal (speaking of the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto..." [same...])


... so this is speaking of a very specific group, and at a very specific point-in-time, regarding details that had heretofore not as yet been disclosed (unlike what Martha spoke of ['resurrection'] and WELL-KNEW about, in John 11:24).


[that's just for starters, on this point...]
I knew you would show up with all your rhetoric and explain away what the Scriptures clearly states.
 
D

DWR

Guest
As I have said before,
It is a waste of time to point out the error of your belief.
2 Timothy 3:7 fits you well.
I done.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I knew you would show up with all your rhetoric and explain away what the Scriptures clearly states.
[ *rejoicing!* :D ]


Just popping back in here to let you know that I had added a bit more to my post after you had grabbed it, apparently... Did not want you [or, perhaps the readers] to miss that... Thanks :) Have a great day!



Had added:
[that's just for starters, on this point... this text being about "WE" shall not all sleep, but "WE" shall all be changed... (Paul has been tasked with disclosing "doctrinal truths" pertaining specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)])]
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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As is always the case you people put your own spin on Scripture to support your belief.
Why not just read the Scripture and believe what it very plainly and clearly states.
It ain't complicated.
The first resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye not spread out over hundreds of years.
The blind leading the blind.
Again as I said before, there are specific groups of those who are redeemed, who are part of the first resurrection. These groups are resurrected in a fairly tightly packed span of time in sequence, as Paul says "in their own order".
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Again as I said before, there are specific groups of those who are redeemed, who are part of the first resurrection. These groups are resurrected in a fairly tightly packed span of time in sequence, as Paul says "in their own order".
Yes.

There are some folks who simply "despise" Paul, though, and believe he was NOT tasked with disclosing "doctrinal truths" concerning "the Church WHICH IS HIS [Christ's] BODY," but that he [Paul] has only decided to dispense some "[fairly] good advice" instead...
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[...] are resurrected in a fairly tightly packed span of time in sequence, as Paul says "in their own order".
I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that exactly NO ONE suggested "spread out over hundreds of years" when it comes to "the resurrection OF THE JUST"/"the resurrection OF LIFE," which is what (as you say) takes place "in a fairly tightly packed span of time" and in sequence (NOT "over hundreds of years"). Yes.


I really have no clue why some say "I understand your viewpoint perfectly well [with some adding, 'coz I used to hold to it, myself!']", and then proceed to "explain it" in a completely "OFF-BASE" manner... Puzzles me to no end... :unsure:
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Yes there were giants in those days. And they were the result of the sons of God raping the daughters of men.

Gen_6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
The Sons of God were Human "Men" as Genesis 6:1 shows, they were not "Angels" as Chuck Missler falsely taught and "Angels" dont procreate with humans, they arent given in marriage.

This "False Teaching" is derived from "Greek Mythology"

Your claim that the "Sons of God "RAPED" the daughters of men is 100% false, as they married them as wives.

Your teachings aren't to be taken seriously, at this point they're pure folly, in willful ignorance on display.

Genesis 6:1-2KJV
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Nehemiah6: A very weak case indeed. Since the Tribulation corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist, there will be no one to rapture at the end of the Tribulation, since everyone will be killed. No living saints = no Rapture. I rest my case.
This is one point amongst many that make anything but pretrib impossible.
Other adherents have a tough time ahead with trying to defend an impossibility
I am one [as a 'pre-trib adherent' :D ] who happens to disagree with that ^ particular point.

In past posts I've listed tons of passages showing the "saints" ('still-living') who will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, not "our Rapture" time-slot)... Matt25:31-34 (and context) being one of those passages speaking of their ENTRANCE INTO the MK age, as "still-living" persons ('saints' [only!]) upon His RETURN to the earth (parallel also to the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passage, same... "still-living" persons/saints/'the righteous' at that point in the chronology: His return to the earth Rev19 [not "our Rapture" context, which takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that which is described in this particular text/context, btw])... and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... (,<--the ppl in that scene are "still-living" persons on the earth, upon His "RETURN" there)... and about 8-9 other "BLESSED" passages, like Dan12:12 for example, "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days" ("still-living" saints, same point in the chronology, at His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19).
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Rev 14
Jesus returns and is pictured on a cloud. He gathers a group DURING THE GT.
JESUS also returns AFTER the gt.

The "he only returns once" is thoughouly debunked by rev 14

We know for a fact there are 3 returns.
It is impossible to make it one return.
Jesus Christ returns "Once" in the future, "immediately after the tribulation" in the resurrection, catching up, and final judgement, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by his fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, as the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity.