I agree, Jesus CAN NOT come until the man of sin is revealed.
Well, besides the point that that is NOT what point I was making...
Coz I've said repeatedly that Paul is telling them the trib cannot be present (with its "man of sin") until we're OUTTA HERE
*first* (same sequence as he supplied in 1Th4-thru-5, by the way!)
But we are also told that Paul had already explained this to the Thessalonians.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Below is ONLY PART of what he told them, the rest is spread out over 1 Thessalonians.
1Th 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
The text states, "For who our hope or joy or crown of rejoicing/boasting, other than you [/if it is not you] yourselves in the presence of our Lord Jesus
at His coming" and verse 20 goes on to say, "For you are our glory and joy."
So, he is talking to real human Christians at the time
, who really existed on the earth at the time he wrote his letter, and talks about "you"...[who will be] "in the presence of our Lord Jesus
AT HIS COMING" (Paul is not saying,
you are now up there in His presence physically... but
you will be,
AT HIS COMING... that is, at the time of our Rapture [IN THE AIR] which is what 2Th2:1's Subject is [not 2Th2:2's])
Did you catch what Paul said there?
Yes, but I think you have not.
He said that the Thessalonians were ALREADY IN THE PRESENCE of our Lord Jesus Christ AT HIS COMING! So Christ has ALREADY come and they are IN HIS PRESENCE.
Well, perhaps you are trying to equate this passage with the "positional truths [/legal position]" of other passages elsewhere (it's doubtful, coz you haven't thus far, lol), but Paul is not speaking of that here.
I have much much more to say about the man of sin, but if you want believe 1 Thessalonians 2:19, you darn sure wont believe what I have to say about the man of sin.... even though what I will say is the pure gospel truth.
I fully expect you to hit the commentaries and come back with 10 different greek words that
twist those English words into the false anitchrist Jewish futurist heresy.
About that, I will just say that a number of passages speak of
that specific point in time (of his arrival--yet future):
--at "the Day of the Lord's ARRIVAL"
1Th5:2-3, Paul says it's like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon a woman in labor (and that the Thessalonians "know perfectly" this fact);
--that is, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3] that Jesus ALSO spoke of when He referred to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" in His Olivet Discourse (so the FIRST one OF THOSE being specifically Matt24:
4/Mk13:
5 "G5100 -
tis -
'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one'
bringing deception]");
--and "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are PARALLEL (are the EQUIVALENT of) the "SEALS" of Revelation 6... so the FIRST SEAL = the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" at the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" TIME PERIOD (1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5), but MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" follow on from that point; it is not "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth PANGS";
--so in 2Th2:2-3,7b-8a,9a, Paul is also talking about what happens at the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" TIME PERIOD, and that is (just like the other passages above ^ ) the "
whose COMING [ARRIVAL/advent/presence/parousia]" of the "man of sin" IN HIS TIME (that is, in the
"IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" time period,
yet future--see Amos 5:18,20 for just one small example); But Paul here in 2Th2:3-9a is not merely covering a "singular point in time" [as tho "the man of sin" is DESTROYED upon the man of sin's ARRIVAL] nor merely a "3.5 yr" period of time [as tho the man of sin ARRIVES at the point in time when "he SITTETH"... NO!], but he is covering [in this text] the ENTIRE "7-yr period of time" [not only his ARRIVAL point in time, but his SITTETH point in time, as well as his 'BE DESTROYED' point in time--ALL of which, all told, SPANS a DURATION of 7-yrs, just like other passages show, which are covering
the same Subject]
--IT'S NOT SO MUCH ABOUT *the Greek* as it is about the CHRONOLOGY (of events) [seein' if you'll read this sentence, since it's in the "midst" of my text, LOL] ;
--that's all I'm going to put for now, coz it is very doubtful you will even read and EXAMINE
even this much (which is miniscule compared to what all I could put! LOL)... your mind is already made up about your thinking "the man of sin" is the "flesh" part of you as an individual [and same for
every individual]. ; ] I get it. You do not want to consider anything else as being worth examining... so, you won't.
Have a great day! I'm off to get some stuff done... hopefully! LOL[/QUOTE]