Baptise

[Cobus]

Kerry salvation is not then... that is only the CALLING. God said those that endure to the end, they shall be saved... That is the beginning not the end...

Many are called few are chosen. Just look how many goes with this a bit and return to their old ways... They are the ones with the rocky soil. Where the SEED the WORD OF GOD falls on the rocky shallow ground.... They grow quick, but the roots are weak, and the sun quickly burn them again... Dead, bearing no fruit. The parable of the sower.

The ones that are saved bears GOOD FRUIT... 30 60 and 100 fold... Where the WORD OF GOD grew in them and becomes a strong healthy plant that bears ONLY GOOD FRUIT FOR GOD'S SHED!

 

[Kerry]

So your saying that if a person accepts Christ and His work on the cross, they are not really saved?

 

[enoch1nine]

Baptism is a form of submission; can you really fully submit yourself to yourself? Trusting that the guy holding you under the water will raise you out of it is akin to trusting Jesus to raise you out of the grave. You need to be free of performing the ceremony to fully submit to the ceremony.

There seems to me to also be an element of getting over the fear of "going under water", holding the "breath", etc. Thinking like a 3 year old that has never done it before, but wants to.
I might be willing to entertain the thought that most commoners in that area were not swimmers, and just waded in the water for recreation.
They were probably not too keen on going under water at the hands of another, and I can picture some bystander saying "you gotta go under water? uh, not me man, I'm outta here!"
One of the disciples couldn't swim, and he was even a fisherman.

 

[notuptome]

I knew that this question would raise some interesting replies. This is the unintended consequence of placing too much emphasis on water baptism. Some innocent soul is going to be burdened with the idea of self water baptism feeling it is necessary to be saved. We should be ashamed of our collective failure to disciple new believers. This cannot be done over the internet or the TV set.
Salvation is a gift of God. It is Gods grace that make it possible for us to be saved. When we come to Christ He saves us. Christ baptizes us in the Holy Spirit and we are saved. Only Christ can baptize us in the Holy Spirit. We receive this baptism by faith by believing Gods word and trusting God will do what He says He will do.
If you desire water baptism then ask the Lord to lead you to a good local church. Ask the pastor to teach you what water baptism is and what it means. Water baptism is to be done before witnesses. It is a statement that you have received the Lord and you want all the world to know. God will lead you to a church and a pastor who can help you. Church membership should not be a requirement to receive water baptism and I would seek a church that does not make water baptism contingent on anything but your testimony of salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cobus]

So your saying that if a person accepts Christ and His work on the cross, they are not really saved?

Kerry it is not what I say that matters it is what the Bible says.

Kerry can you show me in the Scripture where any person ACCEPTED Christ? It sounds as if the person chose to accept Christ and not God choosing the person....

It can only be one of the two... Who has to accept whom, Who choose who? God says clearly.... I chose you, you did not chose me.

I say that salvation STARTS with the cross.... To get clean.... and that takes quite a bit of time, and as long as God see fit. God says... one plants, the other adds water, but God let GROW! And the ones that does not grow to maturity, CANNOT bear fruit and was NEVER Saved.

I know we have to have faith, and that the Truth shall make us free, but the Truth is.... GOD SELECTS who shall be saved, not us! Gd calls many but He choose FEW! Wonder why?

 

[Cobus]

I knew that this question would raise some interesting replies. This is the unintended consequence of placing too much emphasis on water baptism. Some innocent soul is going to be burdened with the idea of self water baptism feeling it is necessary to be saved. We should be ashamed of our collective failure to disciple new believers. This cannot be done over the internet or the TV set.
Salvation is a gift of God. It is Gods grace that make it possible for us to be saved. When we come to Christ He saves us. Christ baptizes us in the Holy Spirit and we are saved. Only Christ can baptize us in the Holy Spirit. We receive this baptism by faith by believing Gods word and trusting God will do what He says He will do.
If you desire water baptism then ask the Lord to lead you to a good local church. Ask the pastor to teach you what water baptism is and what it means. Water baptism is to be done before witnesses. It is a statement that you have received the Lord and you want all the world to know. God will lead you to a church and a pastor who can help you. Church membership should not be a requirement to receive water baptism and I would seek a church that does not make water baptism contingent on anything but your testimony of salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger WHEN does Christ baptize us with the Holy Spirit... He says nobody comes to the Father but by HIM, and nobody comes to Him if the Father does not draw him... So how is the drawing and the coming to Father through Him happen? When do we recieve the POWER when the Spirit is come upon us? And what is that power?

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

List a few things Jesus makes us free from.... PLEASE!

 

[notuptome]

Kerry it is not what I say that matters it is what the Bible says.

Kerry can you show me in the Scripture where any person ACCEPTED Christ? It sounds as if the person chose to accept Christ and not God choosing the person....

It can only be one of the two... Who has to accept whom, Who choose who? God says clearly.... I chose you, you did not chose me.

I say that salvation STARTS with the cross.... To get clean.... and that takes quite a bit of time, and as long as God see fit. God says... one plants, the other adds water, but God let GROW! And the ones that does not grow to maturity, CANNOT bear fruit and was NEVER Saved.

I know we have to have faith, and that the Truth shall make us free, but the Truth is.... GOD SELECTS who shall be saved, not us! Gd calls many but He choose FEW! Wonder why?

John 3:15-21 esp vs 21
Salvation is an event the Holy Spirit quickens. Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:1
God does not select who is saved. Christ dies for all men. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Many will not come but that is against Gods desire. John 3:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Roger WHEN does Christ baptize us with the Holy Spirit... He says nobody comes to the Father but by HIM, and nobody comes to Him if the Father does not draw him... So how is the drawing and the coming to Father through Him happen? When do we recieve the POWER when the Spirit is come upon us? And what is that power?

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

List a few things Jesus makes us free from.... PLEASE!

Titus 3:5
We are free from the power of sin, the penalty of sin and one day we will be free from the presence of sin.
The Holy Spirit draws men to Christ. This through the proclamation of Gods word. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me. John 12:32

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Elizabeth619]

A BIG YES!!!!
Oh if you cannot God cannot!
Did god not say.... Draw near to me and I will draw near to you....
Look at this.... God said... Baptize them in THE NAME... One Name.... of the Father (YHVH) the Son (Yeshuah Ha Meshiach) and the Holy Spirit (Christ Jesus).... What is that Name?
And His NAME IS : THE WORD OF GOD.
There is A BAPTISM, by the WORD OF GOD, IN THE WORD OF GOD. Jesus said Father SANCTIFY them in your TRUTH, YOUR WORD IS TRUTH... ALL WHO Gather IN MY NAME, IN HIS WORD....
Do you see how all comes together in the Truth.... Here is the BAPTISM, THE SANCTIFICATION, THE SET FREE, THE SABBATH, THE GLORIFICATION AND THE REBIRTH..... TO HAVE GOD’S WORD IN YOU, AND YOU IN GOD’S WORD.
The TRUTH IS HIS WORD.... JOHN 17:17.

To baptize yourself with God's Truth.... Read the Bible, and ask God to realize HIS WORDS for you... god said not thehearers but the DOERS are His children.... Read and DO, and BAPTIZE YOURSELF WITH GOD!

Not trying to be rude but the fact that you openly admit you're unsure about your spiritual status and you say you're not a Christian do you think it's appropriate to be telling anyone the correct/incorrect ways of baptism, salvation, Holy Spirit etc?

 

[Kerry]

Titus 3:5
We are free from the power of sin, the penalty of sin and one day we will be free from the presence of sin.
The Holy Spirit draws men to Christ. This through the proclamation of Gods word. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me. John 12:32

For the cause of Christ
Roger

True, we are free from the power of sin, but not the temptation and if we take our faith of the work of Christ the power of sin is revived. Such as well I go to church every Sunday. I go to prayer meeting every Wednesday. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't curse. I am a good person. I give my tithe. I cut the church grass. I am worthy. That's where we fall. It has nothing to do with us, But Him and what He did at the cross. The above mentioned are good things, but we cannot rely on those good things. We must rely on Christ redemptive work.

 

[Graybeard]

The Word of God (The Bible) is plain and clear about water baptism, why oh why do people distort it is beyond me!

 

[Kerry]

Graybeard, lets get this open and out front. If baptism is the means of salvation, would not Johns preaching and baptism been sufficient? Why then would God have to become a man and die. There would have been no need, we could simply, stick are head in water and confess our sin to be saved. That is not the theme of the bible. The shed blood of a innocent man was required by God. Since there was know innocent man, God became man and gave his life for us. Water Baptism is the same as Communion, we do it because we want to. Sinners don't do that and the act of doing so does nothing for us unless we have accepted Jesus work on the cross.

 

[Graybeard]

Graybeard, lets get this open and out front. If baptism is the means of salvation, would not Johns preaching and baptism been sufficient? Why then would God have to become a man and die. There would have been no need, we could simply, stick are head in water and confess our sin to be saved. That is not the theme of the bible. The shed blood of a innocent man was required by God. Since there was know innocent man, God became man and gave his life for us. Water Baptism is the same as Communion, we do it because we want to. Sinners don't do that and the act of doing so does nothing for us unless we have accepted Jesus work on the cross.

Then please tell why Jesus commanded:

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Cobus]

Greybeard, read Acts 4 where Philip baptized even Simon, but was Simon now saved? Nope he still believed he could buy God's gifts.
And greybeard if you can show me WATER in the verse you qouted I will get baptized TODAY in this cold ocean at Heroldsbay... But if you CAN baptize in THE NAME, of THE FATHER (1st name YHWH) the SON (2nd name YESHUAH HA MESHIAH) and the HOLY GHOST (3rd Name CHRIST JESUS) I will rush to you today! I am also in South Africa.

When Jesus said they should baptize the people, and they lay hands on Samaria and the SPIRIT OF GOD FELL ON ALL THEY LAY HANDS ON... was this not the BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF FATHER, SON, AND HOLY GHOST?

When Jesus was with them they baptized with water to reoentance, when the people repented AFTER Jesus was IN THEM, they baotized in THE NAME of FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.... NOT WATER... H2O is WATER, Spirit is LIVING WATER... Not dead h2O....

Read acts 4 and see that even the HOLY SPIRIT FILLED Philip did not baptize in the NAME, but in water. NOT LIVING WATER.
Not one person is going to heaven because he was baptized in water, but not one person that was baortized with LIVING WATER will not enter into God's Kingdom. Only the water that will FLOW from your belly can save, and is a result of salvation. LIVING WATERS is the WATER BAPTISM Jesus talks about. The same WATER Jesus mentioned to the woman at the well.

To be baptized in THE NAME, is to be BAPTIZED IN THE LIVING WATERS OF THE WORD OF GOD... that is THE NAME... Revelation says... AND HIS NAME IS: THE WORD OF GOD!
I just baptized you with a little LIVING WATER, imagine Jesus does it for you TOTALLY... then LIVING WATERS SHALL FLOW FORM YOUR BELLY.... And then you shall baptize people in THE NAME....

 

[Cobus]

Not trying to be rude but the fact that you openly admit you're unsure about your spiritual status and you say you're not a Christian do you think it's appropriate to be telling anyone the correct/incorrect ways of baptism, salvation, Holy Spirit etc?

Bethy, I would rather say I am from satan and sinneth not and talk NOT FALSE DOCTRINE, that I say I am from God and be reproofed by Satan in God's Word.

This is what I understand not. There is NO USE for me to have a lot of ZEAL and DRIVE to be a child of God, but then do it with my OWN righteousness....

Elizabeth I find this to be true for CC as well..... And this Elizabeth comes STRAIGHT FROM GOD, NOT ME. Bethy, I did NOT write the Bible, I only believe the Bible... 100%. And I do have A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE and I share IN KNOWLEDGE. This knowledge is NOT MY OWN, it comes from the Word of God.....For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

I feel like Paul on this one... I bear witness that Zonie, and Bethy, and greybeard and notuptome, ann and and... have a zeal of God (they have a lot of drive to serve God) but not according to KNOWLEDGE... And that knowledge is the TRTUH... That knowledge will make them free, but they spit in the face of the knowledge.... And here on CC they set up their own righteousness... Jesus died for my sins.... That is their righteousness, yet they sin! Does the TRUTH NOT MAKE THEM FREE...

If Jesus did die for your sins, why do you LIVE IN THEM? Are you not ALSO DEAD to sin? And sin to you? Jesus, and ONLY JESUS is the righteousness and the end of the LAW. Not you, and not you sinning! If God gives you JESUS to REMAIN IN YOU, SIN IS DEAD!!!!! Sin died when YOU DIED WITH JESUS. And righteousness came alive WHEN GOD MADE JESUS ALIVE IN YOU...

Nobody can be BORN OF GOD, if HE DIE NOT FIRST! That is what it means to DIE OFF THE OLD MAN! If I DIE NOT OFF ALL MY SIN, I CANNOT GET JESUS MADE ALIVE IN ME....

That is why God says... LITTLE CHILDREN (that is not young ones in years it is young ones iun faith, like me and you Elizabeth.... LITLLE COBUS, ELIZABETH AND GREAYBEARD AND AND AND... Let no man deceive you, he that do righteousness, is as righteous as I AM RIGHTEOUS.... PERFECT!!!!! If a man sin ONCE, he is not as righteous as God, and Christ IS NOT IN HIM!!!! 1 John 3. Read it!

 

[Graybeard]

Cobus..why did Philip baptize with water if it was no longer required?:

Act 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"
Act 8:37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Act 8:38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

and look what Peter said about water and this was AFTER they had received the Holy Spirit:

Act 10:47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

 

[Cobus]

Philip was SENT to baptize with water, there were no Bibles then..... HE WAS THE BIBLE THAT MADE THE PEOPLE REPENT AND RECEIVE THE WORD.....

 

[Cobus]

The LIVING WATER did come from these men they were FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST.... TRUTH AND WORD...

 

[Cobus]

Greybeard did you EVER see a person filled with the Holy Spirit, that can heal a whole town and chase out ALL evil spirits?
Let me ask you this... the person that baptized you whose EXAMPLE did he follow? Show scripture...

 

[Cobus]

Now if the WATERBAPTISM prepares for the Holy Spirit TRUTH AND WORD BAPTISM, and the people recieve the TRUTH AND MAKE FREE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, why would you still prepare.... Peter went beyond what God told him too... He did it again when PAUL was sent to the Gentiles and Paul told him that he should leave his hyprocracy... As a lesson for us. That WATER does not save, Spirit does. And keeping the LAW does not save Righteousness does... Righteousness is Jesus keeping the LAW IN ME, not me doing anything...

There is a big differance to have Jesus in me doing what HE WANTS than me trying to do what Jesus did. All I have to do is STOP SINNING! that is not work, that is OBEDIENCE... God does not tell us to WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS, he tells us to STOP WORKING UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.... God does not say DO THIS, he says STOP DOING THAT!

ALL who are righteouss, is righteouss because JESUS is IN THEM, and they ARE IN HIM... They are in HIM because they STOPPED INIQUITY and God LET THEM IN! I advize this to all..... IF YOU HAVE A HOPE TO BE IN GOD AND GOD IN YOU, DO THIS.....And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

AND LET GOD DO THE REST!!!!