Baptism by Fire
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A
Oh, sorry would have been good if i had read the text...couldnt figure out what you were even saying ...now i do...ya, i see your point. You have run two verses togather making two statements into one. I dont think the Holyspirit intended it to be all smashed togather like that and ive showed many verses with references to fire in our santification and at our judgement. If you dont see anything...cool
that definitely settles the question of 'is there hell'... 
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
So in Acts 2, the tongues of fire was a first-time (and only time) indication that the filling of the HOly Spirit had taken place, that he had come. Kind of like an 'innauguration'... it couldn't have meant anything else...?? yet this must be where misinterpretation is continuous...
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
So in Acts 2, the tongues of fire was a first-time (and only time) indication that the filling of the HOly Spirit had taken place, that he had come. Kind of like an 'innauguration'... it couldn't have meant anything else...?? yet this must be where misinterpretation is continuous...
and yes, those tongues that looked like fire (behaved like fire) as of fire that sat on each of them WAS a one time event, a SIGN (remember that this miracle of them suddenly speaking gentile langauges in the midst of israel (the jews HATED gentiles) was a SIGN of God's Judgment ON UBELIEVING ISRAEL.
a sign that His Grace and salvation was going out to the gentiles.
just as the "sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting" was a one-time event - that doesn't happen today when we receive the Holy Spirit, it doesn't happen in pentecostal churches, it doesn't happen at all.
it was a Miraculous event.
~
New International Version (©1984)
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
International Standard Version (©2008)
They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated, and one rested on each of them.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Tongues that looked like fire appeared to them. The tongues arranged themselves so that one came to rest on each believer.
King James Bible
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
American King James Version
And there appeared to them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat on each of them.
American Standard Version
And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them.
Bible in Basic English
And they saw tongues, like flames of fire, coming to rest on every one of them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them:
Darby Bible Translation
And there appeared to them parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them.
English Revised Version
And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them.
Webster's Bible Translation
And there appeared to them, cloven tongues as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Weymouth New Testament
and they saw tongues of what looked like fire distributing themselves over the assembly, and on the head of each person a tongue alighted.
World English Bible
Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them.
Young's Literal Translation
and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them,
1100. glóssa
the tongue, a language
Original Word: γλῶσσα, ης, ἡPart of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: glóssa
Phonetic Spelling: (gloce-sah')
Short Definition: the tongue, a language, nation
Definition: the tongue, a language, a nation (usually distinguished by their speech).
1100 glṓssa – tongue, used of flowing speech; (figuratively) speaking, inspired by God, like the evidence of tongues-speaking supplied by the Lord in the book of Acts to demonstrate the arrival of the new age of the covenant (i.e. NT times).
[The normative experience of the 120 believers received "tongues (1100 /glṓssa) as of fire" (Ac 2:3) and miraculously spoke in other actual languages, i.e. that they could not speak before (Ac 2:4f). This sign was repeated in Ac 10:46, 19:6 – furnishing ample proof (three attestations) that the Lord had incorporated all believers into Christ's (mystical) body (1 Cor 12:13).]
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A
Oh, thats ok, but if you look you may wonder why fire is used first with babtism of the spirit......then in next statement where it seems to change to judgement or the threshing floor then its eternal fire....so in reference to babtism technically i dont have to give verses about eternal fire becuase it just wouldnt make sence as i said. With babtism there is stated fire and i gave references that actually show fire in that use. Eternal fire in the idea of judgement and hell i didnt give becuase that isnt the topic.
E
Actually I have looked.
Baptism with the spirit is where the wheat is placed in the barn
baptism with fire is where the chaff is burned. And it says this fire will never be quenched.
John says Jesus will baptise with the HS and fire. It does not say who he will baptises, only that he will.
Then he explains what he meant by HS and fire. by using the example of the winnowing fan, and separating the wheat from the chaff. This is what Jesus does. He seperates the wheat by baptising with the HS, He burns the chaff with fire by baptising the chaff in this fire.
Again, understanding the true meaning of the greek word baptizo is essential here.
Baptism with the spirit is where the wheat is placed in the barn
baptism with fire is where the chaff is burned. And it says this fire will never be quenched.
John says Jesus will baptise with the HS and fire. It does not say who he will baptises, only that he will.
Then he explains what he meant by HS and fire. by using the example of the winnowing fan, and separating the wheat from the chaff. This is what Jesus does. He seperates the wheat by baptising with the HS, He burns the chaff with fire by baptising the chaff in this fire.
Again, understanding the true meaning of the greek word baptizo is essential here.
E
Well if this is what John meant, You might be right. But John is speaking of two baptism here. One with the HS and one with Fire.
Baptism just means to place into. It does not mean cleanse. No where in the context of the passage is John speaking of cleansing with fire. This is added to the context by people who want to distort the true meaning of what John said.
Jesus uses the HS to baptise us, it is this baptism which cleanses. If we are not cleansed by the HS we have only one thing left. We will be baptised by Christ himself into the eternal fire.
John is making a point. His baptism in water means nothing. Jesus will baptise everyone. His baptism is eternal. Where it be by the HS to eternal life. Or in fire to eternal death. No one will escape being baptised by Christ.
hi Abiding:
but the Op concerns this passage:
Matthew 3
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the desert,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”a
4 John’s clothes were made of camel’s hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 5 People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. 6 Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
John being the forerunner, the bridge between the Old and New Covenants (Testaments), coming as Elijah, though a priest and prophet, he was outside and away from the Temple System, in the wilderness, calling the people OUT, to repentence, baptizing them with water (which the jews were familiar with as they had a similar ritual they used on GENTILE converts to Judaism - the old switcheroo you might say
).the question being ONLY about Baptism by Fire, this passage specifically, when read in context (particularly concerning who john was talking to) the Baptism with fire can ONLY mean JUDGMENT....burning up with unquenchable fire.
john clearly contrasts the baptism with fire and chaff with The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the wheat.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done--burn with no one to quench it.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 1:31
The mighty man will become tinder and his work a spark; both will burn together, with no one to quench the fire."
the earth was baptised by water once for cleansing (Noah)...we are told this time it will be by Fire to destruction (Peter).
A
hi Abiding:
but the Op concerns this passage:
Matthew 3
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the desert,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”a
4 John’s clothes were made of camel’s hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 5 People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. 6 Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
John being the forerunner, the bridge between the Old and New Covenants (Testaments), coming as Elijah, though a priest and prophet, he was outside and away from the Temple System, in the wilderness, calling the people OUT, to repentence, baptizing them with water (which the jews were familiar with as they had a similar ritual they used on GENTILE converts to Judaism - the old switcheroo you might say).
the question being ONLY about Baptism by Fire, this passage specifically, when read in context (particularly concerning who john was talking to) the Baptism with fire can ONLY mean JUDGMENT....burning up with unquenchable fire.
john clearly contrasts the baptism with fire and chaff with The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the wheat.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done--burn with no one to quench it.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 1:31
The mighty man will become tinder and his work a spark; both will burn together, with no one to quench the fire."
the earth was baptised by water once for cleansing (Noah)...we are told this time it will be by Fire to destruction (Peter).
but the Op concerns this passage:
Matthew 3
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the desert,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’”a
4 John’s clothes were made of camel’s hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 5 People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. 6 Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
John being the forerunner, the bridge between the Old and New Covenants (Testaments), coming as Elijah, though a priest and prophet, he was outside and away from the Temple System, in the wilderness, calling the people OUT, to repentence, baptizing them with water (which the jews were familiar with as they had a similar ritual they used on GENTILE converts to Judaism - the old switcheroo you might say
).the question being ONLY about Baptism by Fire, this passage specifically, when read in context (particularly concerning who john was talking to) the Baptism with fire can ONLY mean JUDGMENT....burning up with unquenchable fire.
john clearly contrasts the baptism with fire and chaff with The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the wheat.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem, or my wrath will break out and burn like fire because of the evil you have done--burn with no one to quench it.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Isaiah 66:24
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Isaiah 1:31
The mighty man will become tinder and his work a spark; both will burn together, with no one to quench the fire."
the earth was baptised by water once for cleansing (Noah)...we are told this time it will be by Fire to destruction (Peter).
Unfortunatly im not brainy enough...and in some cases dont see it important enough to lay out a good case..haha...I totally agree with all you wrote and all that others have said about this....yes there is a theme in the bible that comes up here in Matt3:11 and 12. You have laid out verse 12..I was just mentioning the other biblical use of the word fire through the bible...that isnt what you laid out ....it isnt uncommon to see this in the bible even where a comma divides thousands of years in what seems like one context. No i cant seem to see running the verses togather. Fire has always been a theme for purifying as well as it has for destruction.
But i dont see that here. I see verse 11 has to do with babtism..and verse 12 is refering to the outcome of those who dont get babtised. One says fire...the other adss the word unquenchable.
A
I've heard of Hellfire but never hell fire referred to as "baptism by fire"
It makes sense that baptism with fire means salvation through the gift of the Holy Spirit since John wrote these words:
Hebrews 12
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[j] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Acts 2
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
it does not say He will baptize the chosen with one: the Holy Spirit and the rest with the other: fire.
Its says He will baptize YOU with both.
It makes sense that baptism with fire means salvation through the gift of the Holy Spirit since John wrote these words:
Hebrews 12
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[j] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Acts 2
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a] in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
it does not say He will baptize the chosen with one: the Holy Spirit and the rest with the other: fire.
Its says He will baptize YOU with both.
A
Its not that i want to win here....its just that its right... haha it retains hell....shuts the mouth of the charismatic.....explains the tongues of fire as to their significance.....and fits with the symbol of fire in the brazen alter...the fire used in Peter concerning our trials...etc...your way seems to only let you beat up on the pharisees again...snicker
E
Yet Jesus said that his disciples would be batised by the HS not many days from now (no mention of fire.
Peter claimed the gentiles were baptised by the HS, No mention of fire. If baptism and fire baptism is the same. why did Jesus and Peter leave the word fire out when speaking of it later?
Simple. Believers are baptised by the HS. Not fire. The fire baptism is a future baptism which jesus will baptise all who have not been baptised by the HS