Baptism by Fire

[zone]

Its not that i want to win here....its just that its right... haha it retains hell....shuts the mouth of the charismatic.....explains the tongues of fire as to their significance.....and fits with the symbol of fire in the brazen alter...the fire used in Peter concerning our trials...etc...your way seems to only let you beat up on the pharisees again...snicker

??

beat up on the Pharisees (again)?
i absolutely watch out for their leaven everywhere and wonder of wonders if it isn't in nearly everything.

in any case:
there were many there: john was baptising the repentent with water...meaning they were likely to carry on and go to Jesus.

this isn't a contest Abiding. whatever the truth is is what i care about...please post
zone

 

[Abiding]

Yet Jesus said that his disciples would be batised by the HS not many days from now (no mention of fire.

Peter claimed the gentiles were baptised by the HS, No mention of fire. If baptism and fire baptism is the same. why did Jesus and Peter leave the word fire out when speaking of it later?

Simple. Believers are baptised by the HS. Not fire. The fire baptism is a future baptism which jesus will baptise all who have not been baptised by the HS

What did the tongues of fire signify? you never told me why fire is in 2Peter1:7 or what fire is in 1 cor3:13-15 ...is not this a different use of the word fire?

 

[Abiding]

Oh, then past the brazen alter was the menorah more fire and the duty to keep the wicks trimmed and there was a specific way to deal with the trimmings...its all a neato image but will see how this thread goes....oh i know its not a contest..i just humor myself..but the thing i see just isnt there for ya all and thats fine..

 

[zone]

What did the tongues of fire signify? you never told me why fire is in 2Peter1:7 or what fire is in 1 cor3:13-15 ...is not this a different use of the word fire?

fiery trials.....
but what about peter's other use of fire? (they're always the same word):

2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men


i'm very interested in your studies Abiding. Baptism by Fire.
zone

 

[Abiding]

fiery trials.....
but what about peter's other use of fire? (they're always the same word):

2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men


i'm very interested in your studies Abiding. Baptism by Fire.
zone[/quot



Zone, sorry i really dont have a study on babtism by fire. Its just that fire is word that has been used throughout the bible. In the menorah the oil is the spirit we are the wick..the light is the fire or maybe i can say the fire is the light...whatever(we are not the fire or the light)..it consumes the wick(us) and destroys it and if it isnt cut off, or kept trimmed the light will go out. We need to continue in dieing to self(sin) cutting off what the fire burns as in 1Peter1:7 overcoming manifold temptations as he says. He is the light we are just a wick that he burns through if we keep trimmed. The utensils for the wick trimming are interesting all being made of pure gold(human hands dont touch the trimmed wick)...meaning to me that without Him we can do nothing. But i wont go on here..this is just one example ..by the way the menorah gives light to the presence of God.

A Closer Look at the Menorah.......site to the left


I just grabbed a site..didnt read it too well.

 

[AnandaHya]

looked at more "fire" passages in the Bible:

Exodus 3:2
And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.

Exodus 13:21
And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so as to go by day and night

Exodus 24:17
The sight of the glory of the LORD was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Exodus 40:38
For the cloud of the LORD was above the tabernacle by day, and fire was over it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.

1 Kings 18:24
Then you call on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD; and the God who answers by fire, He is God.” So all the people answered and said, “It is well spoken.”

Isaiah 66:16
For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many

Isaiah 66:24
“ And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it,Because of the evil of your doings.”

Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore thus says the LORD God of hosts: “ Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them

Zephaniah 3:8
] “ Therefore wait for Me,” says the LORD, “ Until the day I rise up for plunder; My determination is to gather the nations To My assembly of kingdoms, To pour on them My indignation, All My fierce anger; All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy.

Zechariah 3:2
And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”

Malachi 3:2
“ But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderers’ soap.

Acts 2:18-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD

there seems to be two types of fire from God:

1. that consumes and destroys evil forever (God's anger and jealousy) (hell fire, everlasting fire, etc)

2. one that burns and purify God's people (God's mercy and grace) (pillar of fire, burning bush, refiner''s fire, etc

I don't know always thought of fire as light and we know that God's Holy Spirit is our light and guide...

 

[Abiding]

A point i can make is that the tongues of fire does represent the purifying work of the Holyspirit...whatever you see it doesnt matter we are babtised with the HolySpirit and the cleasing fire He uses to purify us and give us light. And in this we will live eternally made perfectly holy.

Those who do not get the purifying fire of babtism will get the eternal fire of destruction.

But the main point to me is this is no excuse for charismatics to go off nuts and say they are babtised with fire...if they were they would act in moderation.

 

[Abiding]

I should learn to post scripture and other stuff..I havnt a clue..I could put togather stuff without typing so much.

 

[zone]

Question: "What is the baptism of/by/with fire?"

Answer: John the Baptist came preaching repentance and baptizing in the wilderness of Judea, and he was sent as a herald to announce the arrival of Jesus, the Son of God (Matthew 3:1-12). He announced “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matthew 3:11).

After Jesus had risen from the dead, He instructed His apostles to “…wait for the Promise of the Father which you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now” (Acts 1:4-5). This promise was first fulfilled on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), and the baptism of the Spirit joins every believer to the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). But what about the baptism with fire?

Some interpret the baptism of fire as referring to the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven. “And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:2-3). It is important to note that these were tongues as of fire, not literal fire.

Some believe that the baptism with fire refers to the Holy Spirit’s office as the energizer of the believer’s service, and the purifier of evil within, because of the exhortation “Do not quench the Spirit” found in 1Thessalonians 5:19. The command to the believer is to not put out the Spirit’s fire by suppressing His ministry.

A third and more likely interpretation is that the baptism of fire refers to judgment. In all four Gospel passages mentioned above, Mark and John speak of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but only Matthew and Luke mention the baptism with fire. The immediate context of Matthew and Luke is judgment (Matthew 3:7-12; Luke 3: 7-17). The context of Mark and John is not (Mark 1:1-8; John 1:29-34). We know that the Lord Jesus is coming in flaming fire to judge those who do not know God (2 Thessalonians 1: 3-10; John 5: 21-23: Revelation 20:11-15), but praise be to God that He will save all that will come and put their trust in Him (John 3:16)!

http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-fire.html

 

[AnandaHya]

I should learn to post scripture and other stuff..I havnt a clue..I could put togather stuff without typing so much.

cut and paste (right click of mouse orhighlight the words on one page "ctrl C" then "ctrl v" on the page you want to post the words to)

 

[AnandaHya]

It could be referring to God's judgement and conviction of people who are sinning to turn them from their sin.

Hey Abiding, makes you re look at those people claiming to be living in the "fire" of God a little more carefully.

if "fire" means God's anger and judgment, hmmmm....

what about those "acquire the fire" concerts young teenage Christians go to?

would they then be acquiring the wrath of God by learning the practices taught there?

 

[zone]

It could be referring to God's judgement and conviction of people who are sinning to turn them from their sin.

Hey Abiding, makes you re look at those people claiming to be living in the "fire" of God a little more carefully.

if "fire" means God's anger and judgment, hmmmm....

what about those "acquire the fire" concerts young teenage Christians go to?

would they then be acquiring the wrath of God by learning the practices taught there?

Record numbers of Christians have been flocking to Lakeland Florida to experience the supernatural. They yell for fire with all the exuberance of a college football game, however nowhere in scripture are we admonished to seek a supernatural experience or demand God’s presence. Certainly the Holy Spirit was not given for our entertainment, nor was He given to fulfill our lust for fleshly thrills. Fire Fire! More Lord! We have become a people so driven to seek after the experiences of God ; to make Him real to bring Him down to us. However, God has called us to live by faith. Remember Jesus said that it is a "a perverse generation seeks after a sign."

Todd Bentley- Calling Down Fire | Deception Bytes

Rodney Morgan Howard-Browne, a burly, 6-foot charismatic preacher from South Africa, was born June 12, 1961, in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. He says he committed his life to Christ at age 5, and was filled with the Holy Spirit at age 8. In 1979, while praying for hours seeking a deeper spiritual experience, he challenged God:

"'Either You come down here and touch me, or I will come up there and touch You,' he prayed in desperation. Suddenly, his whole body felt like it was on fire. He began to laugh uncontrollably. Then he wept and began to speak in tongues. 'I was plugged into heaven's electrical supply,' he later wrote in his book, The Touch of God. 'And since then my desire has been to go and plug other people in'" (Julia Dulin, "Praise the Lord and Pass the New Wine," 8/94, Charisma, p. 22).
​

 

[Abiding]

Then lets change the verse to this......."He will babtize you in either the HolySpirit OR in fire" there...settled. wait i didnt add unquenchable...il do that later.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What did the tongues of fire signify? you never told me why fire is in 2Peter1:7 or what fire is in 1 cor3:13-15 ...is not this a different use of the word fire?

Where the tongues of fire eternal? Did not think so.

2 Peter 1:7 (NKJV)
7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.



hm.. fire?? where??


1 Peter 1:7 (NKJV)
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,



Oh you mean 1st Peter. Where Peter is using symbology about our faith being tested which causes praise and honor to Christ as we are refined much like God is refined by fire. What does this have to do with baptism in an eternal fire? Fire is the symbol here to show how we are tested. We are not tested by fire at all..

As for 1 cor, this is in eternity when we as believers works are tried. Again we are shown how our works if endures will remain and we will be rewarded. But if we have no works, we will be left with nothing but ashes. But we ourselves will still be saved. even though as we ran through the fire to get out.


Again, where is the eternal nature of this fire?

Your arguments doe not stand. nor do these examples you used prove your point.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Through out the Old Testament, "fire" is often times used to describe both sanctification (refiner's fire) or judgement (eternal damnation).

John the Baptist declared that "He who comes after me (being Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit AND fire." Notice that nowhere in any of the gospels does scripture say "Holy Spirit OR fire". Seeing as it is the role of the Holy Spirit to sanctify believers, one can safely assuming that "AND fire" refers to sanctification given the context in which "fire" is used in this verse.

To insist that "fire" in this verse means judgement simply does not make sense. To insist such would be just like saying "... He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and judgement". No where else in the bible will you find any reference to a baptism in judement.

As for Todd Bentley, I knew long before Lakeland that something was not right with him as did many charismatics however, Bentley appealed to those who lean toward hyper spiritualism who place more emphasis on spiritual manifestations rather than true fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nalu]

you got it. remember the context of your verses: john the baptist warning the Pharisees.

the baptism by fire is immersion in the lake of fire.

its for all who refuse Jesus and the baptism He gives, the Holy Spirit.

Yes, that is it.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Yes, that is it.

Why would a pharisee be baptized by the Holy Spirit at all? Notice that the scripture says " Holy Spirit AND fire" thus insisting the Holy Spirit playing a role in this baptism.

 

[Abiding]

thankyou..i thought i was on another planet or low on my vitimans.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Why would a pharisee be baptized by the Holy Spirit at all? Notice that the scripture says " Holy Spirit AND fire" thus insisting the Holy Spirit playing a role in this baptism.

While the word "baptize" means to immerse, scripturally the term is always used in conjunction with water, the Spirit or some other purifier so that fact that John even used the word baptism at all insists on purification / sanctification.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Through out the Old Testament, "fire" is often times used to describe both sanctification (refiner's fire) or judgement (eternal damnation).

John the Baptist declared that "He who comes after me (being Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit AND fire." Notice that nowhere in any of the gospels does scripture say "Holy Spirit OR fire". Seeing as it is the role of the Holy Spirit to sanctify believers, one can safely assuming that "AND fire" refers to sanctification given the context in which "fire" is used in this verse.

To insist that "fire" in this verse means judgement simply does not make sense. To insist such would be just like saying "... He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and judgement". No where else in the bible will you find any reference to a baptism in judement.

As for Todd Bentley, I knew long before Lakeland that something was not right with him as did many charismatics however, Bentley appealed to those who lean toward hyper spiritualism who place more emphasis on spiritual manifestations rather than true fruit of the Holy Spirit.

The problem with your line of thinking is the context of Johns message. He is not talking to just believers. Nor is he speaking about believers. He is talking to everyone. Not everyone will be baptized by the HS. Nor will everyone be baptized by fire.

Now if John was just talking to or about believers in Christ. your theory might make sense. But since he is not. Your theory makes no sense whatsoever!