Baptism Essential to Salvation

[Apostol2013]

This is one topic I haven't seen on this forum:

Is water baptism essential to salvation?

Does it matter how you are baptized? (Sprinkled or fully immersed)

Does it matter what is said when they baptize you? (Father, Son, Holy, In Jesus name, name of the Lord Jesus?)

In one of the books it only mentions the baptism in the name of the father , the Son and the Holy Spirit but in the book of acts it explicitly outlines the example of the apostles baptizing in the name of Jesus in full immersion , now to say it is imperative to salvation I answer yes and no yes that it is mandated by Christ and upheld highly by the apostles like at peters sermon as the Holy ghost fell upon that whole house then peter. Said God forbid water and commenced baptizing but yest is a commandment of Christ , disobeying the commandments of Christ is like unto denying Jesus . And no because if a believer walks away then all that believer has done is null and void , the baptism is essential but not the saving power and before I go on from this post to explain the thief on the cross is that the thief did not have time to get baptized or learn anything but grace covered him to salvation . We are saved by grace as long as we do not disobey till we are indoctrinated by truth but if one rejects truth woe to that man . For in that day He will say away doers of iniquity I never knew you i, it is better to be alive spiritually and not dead in sin.

 

[StoneThrower]

So John 3:5 says that if a man is not born of the WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Since we don't create a doctrine from one verse find another that requires water, Some think Jesus never said this but it was added to go along with doctrine also context is huge who was he speaking to and were they think physically or spiritually?

 

[apostolic862004]

Your post said that one cannot be immersed without water. Hence my question of why does it always require water. Let's go back to Bapto and Baptizo context is required to know what is being addressed in the individual passages. Rhetorical question not an insult at least not intended in the context.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It always requires water because that is what the bible requires. See my previous posts with all the scriptures that specifically say IN WATER. Jesus Christ was baptized IN WATER, John baptized people IN WATER. Paul baptized people IN WATER. Phillip baptized people IN WATER! That is why it requires water. We have been commanded to be baptized. We obviously cannot make the Holy Ghost baptize us. That happens when God feels we are ready for it. The only way we can obey that command is to be baptized IN WATER. That means if you are baptized in anything else (kool-aid, soda, mud, whatever) you baptism is in vain because you didn't obey the commandment. See Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-49.

 

[apostolic862004]

In one of the books it only mentions the baptism in the name of the father , the Son and the Holy Spirit but in the book of acts it explicitly outlines the example of the apostles baptizing in the name of Jesus in full immersion , now to say it is imperative to salvation I answer yes and no yes that it is mandated by Christ and upheld highly by the apostles like at peters sermon as the Holy ghost fell upon that whole house then peter. Said God forbid water and commenced baptizing but yest is a commandment of Christ , disobeying the commandments of Christ is like unto denying Jesus . And no because if a believer walks away then all that believer has done is null and void , the baptism is essential but not the saving power and before I go on from this post to explain the thief on the cross is that the thief did not have time to get baptized or learn anything but grace covered him to salvation . We are saved by grace as long as we do not disobey till we are indoctrinated by truth but if one rejects truth woe to that man . For in that day He will say away doers of iniquity I never knew you i, it is better to be alive spiritually and not dead in sin.

The thief on the cross did not have to be baptized to be saved. No one before Jesus Christ died was required to be baptized to be saved. He did not command the apostles to baptize until after he was resurrected. Why is that? Because our baptism is symbolic of us being BURIED with Christ. When he was on the cross, he had not been BURIED yet so the symbolism would have made no sense. Yes John the baptist was baptizing people, but he was only baptizing them unto repentance according to Acts 19. There was no mandate during that time to be baptized in order to be saved. The only requirement was repentance. But once Jesus died on the cross, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost were all required in order to be saved. And that is exactly what Peter preached in Acts 2:38

 

[endtimes]

The thief on the cross did not have to be baptized to be saved. No one before Jesus Christ died was required to be baptized to be saved. He did not command the apostles to baptize until after he was resurrected. Why is that? Because our baptism is symbolic of us being BURIED with Christ. When he was on the cross, he had not been BURIED yet so the symbolism would have made no sense. Yes John the baptist was baptizing people, but he was only baptizing them unto repentance according to Acts 19. There was no mandate during that time to be baptized in order to be saved. The only requirement was repentance. But once Jesus died on the cross, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost were all required in order to be saved. And that is exactly what Peter preached in Acts 2:38

I agree! The thief was saved via Old Testament because Jesus was not YET dead, not YET buried, not YET resurrected...

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


In fact, for those whom care to take a look, here is a 3min. video of a woman being baptized and comes out of the water speaking in tongues as the Holy Ghost gives the utterance... Normond Baptism In The Name Of Jesus - YouTube


God bless!

 

[SeaBass]

To literally baptize, to imerse someone requires water, a believer already has the Holy Spirit when God saves them and baptism is an act of obidence that follows salvation as an outward symbol of the work thats already been done by God, to identify to the church that you are a fellow believer in Christ.

How can salvation come BEFORE water baptism when verses as Acts 2:38 & Mk 16;16 have the order of water baptism BEFORE salvation?

 

[apostolic862004]

How can salvation come BEFORE water baptism when verses as Acts 2:38 & Mk 16;16 have the order of water baptism BEFORE salvation?

SeaBass, I do believe that people can receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized. (Acts 10:44-48) However, I do not believe that they will still be saved if they refuse to be baptized after they have received it. The new birth process is just that: A birth process. There are several stages in the birth process that must be completed in order for the baby to be "born." If you repent of your sins and get baptized but never receive the Holy GHost, you aborted your birth process. If you repent of your since and receive the Holy Ghost but never get baptized, you aborted the birth process. You have to have all of the components of the new birth in order to be born again. (John 3:5, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38)

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, I do believe that people can receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized. (Acts 10:44-48) However, I do not believe that they will still be saved if they refuse to be baptized after they have received it. The new birth process is just that: A birth process. There are several stages in the birth process that must be completed in order for the baby to be "born." If you repent of your sins and get baptized but never receive the Holy GHost, you aborted your birth process. If you repent of your since and receive the Holy Ghost but never get baptized, you aborted the birth process. You have to have all of the components of the new birth in order to be born again. (John 3:5, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38)

In the case of Cornelius, being baptized with the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with his personal salvation.

1) God sent an angel to Cornelius telling Cornelius to send for Peter
2) God sent Peter a vision showing him Gentiles are 'clean'.
3) God baptized the Gentiles with the HS.

God did these things to prove to the Jews salvation was not meant just for them, but also for the Gentiles and therefore the Jews could not forbid water baptism to the Gentiles. In Acts 11 Peter told the Jews in jerusalem these things God did and the result of God doing these things is "When they (Jews) heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." So Cornelius was still lost and remained lost in his unremitted sins until he was water baptized for remission of sins.

Two remaining points:

1) the Lord baptized with the HS just twice in the NT, the apostles in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10. The purpose of the Lord baptizing the Gentiles was to prove to the Jews salvation was meant for the Gentiles. The Lord baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill His promise in sending them the "Comforter" when He left them to ascend back to heaven.

Joel 2:28, Joel prophesied baptism with the HS saying the spirit would be poured out upon "ALL FLESH". ALL FLESH does not mean every person universally or even animals which have flesh but at that time humanity/all flesh was divided up into two groups, Jews and non-Jews. The apostles-Jews in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10 therefore make up all flesh thereby fulfilling that prophecy of Joel, Mt 5:17,18, making baptism with the HS obsolete for some 2000 years now.


2) in Acts 15:11 Peter said Jews and Gentiles are saved in 'like manner'. The like manner way the Jews in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved was by water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins, Acts 2:38; Act 10:47,48. The Jews in Acts 2, the eunuch or other conversions in Acts did NOT involve baptism with the HS thereby eliminating that baptism as the like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved. Of course those that are against the bible's teaching of the necessity of water baptism will try and force some kind of "spirit baptism' into various contexts when its not there and also by doing so, they create TWO baptisms not ONE per Eph 4:5.


So the Gentiles being baptized with the Holy Spirit in no way negates, changes, or reverses the order of verses as Acts 2:38 or Mk 16;16 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation. If it did, then those verses are not true or there are contradictions within the bible.

 

[Butch5]

I think to be baptized is very much a re-affirmation and deceleration of laying down the old life. And it is instructed that a believer should be baptized. I personally do not think anyone who comes to Christ should hesitate to be baptized. In my opinion churches should have a bath or a swimming pool ready for every single service, so that WHEN a person is saved in that service, he can go straight into baptism - but in today's day and time, you have to book it in advance at times.



Now taking this into account, should you give your life to God in a Sunday service, walk out into the parking lot and a tree falls on you killing you, does this mean you are not saved? NOT AT ALL

Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
The scripture says here "he that believes and IS baptizes shall be saved" SO we should get baptized, but it says here too, that "he that believeth not shall be damned"

The second part is what I'm pressing on, it takes your belief and initial repentance, so if you happen to die before you baptize because you had no way of getting baptized you will not be damned because of your faith.

BUT - go get baptized, the word of God insists on it! Why argue the point, its an ACT of your faith!

Hi ThePottersClay,

I agree with what you said but the passage that you used doesn't say that. The lack of baptism in the second clause doesn't negate what is stated in the first clause. If one accepts this passage it absolutely requires baptism for salvation. The words believes and baptized are in the aorist tense, past tense and the word saved is in the future tense. There is no way grammatically to put saved in between believed and baptized as many Christians attempt to do, it simply cannot be done. The grammar of this passage requires that believed and baptized precede saved.

There is no need to mention baptism in the second clause if belief is rejected. If one doesn't believe baptism is irrelevant.

 

[apostolic862004]

In the case of Cornelius, being baptized with the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with his personal salvation.

1) God sent an angel to Cornelius telling Cornelius to send for Peter
2) God sent Peter a vision showing him Gentiles are 'clean'.
3) God baptized the Gentiles with the HS.

God did these things to prove to the Jews salvation was not meant just for them, but also for the Gentiles and therefore the Jews could not forbid water baptism to the Gentiles. In Acts 11 Peter told the Jews in jerusalem these things God did and the result of God doing these things is "When they (Jews) heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." So Cornelius was still lost and remained lost in his unremitted sins until he was water baptized for remission of sins.

This is not true Seabass. While the gentiles being baptized did signify to the Jews that gentiles could now be saved, this still had everything to do with Cornelius' personal salvation and those that were with him. Now I agree that he would not have been saved if he did not get baptized. He had to complete the whole plan of salvation not just part of it. But to say that this had nothing to do with his personal salvation is wrong. The whole reason that he was able to hear preaching and be saved was because he had been faithful and devoted to God and God honored that by giving him and his household the opportunity to obey the gospel.

1) the Lord baptized with the HS just twice in the NT, the apostles in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10. The purpose of the Lord baptizing the Gentiles was to prove to the Jews salvation was meant for the Gentiles. The Lord baptized the apostles in Acts 2 to fulfill His promise in sending them the "Comforter" when He left them to ascend back to heaven.

This also is not true. Acts 8:17 reports that people received the Holy Ghost and so does Acts 19:6. So there are four times that are RECORDED. But of course every person that was saved in the new testament had to have been baptized with the Holy Ghost because that is part of salvation according to John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Romans 8:9, etc.

Joel 2:28, Joel prophesied baptism with the HS saying the spirit would be poured out upon "ALL FLESH". ALL FLESH does not mean every person universally or even animals which have flesh but at that time humanity/all flesh was divided up into two groups, Jews and non-Jews. The apostles-Jews in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10 therefore make up all flesh thereby fulfilling that prophecy of Joel, Mt 5:17,18, making baptism with the HS obsolete for some 2000 years now.

This I agree with.

2) in Acts 15:11 Peter said Jews and Gentiles are saved in 'like manner'. The like manner way the Jews in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved was by water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins, Acts 2:38; Act 10:47,48. The Jews in Acts 2, the eunuch or other conversions in Acts did NOT involve baptism with the HS thereby eliminating that baptism as the like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved. Of course those that are against the bible's teaching of the necessity of water baptism will try and force some kind of "spirit baptism' into various contexts when its not there and also by doing so, they create TWO baptisms not ONE per Eph 4:5.

Once again, this is not true. Just because it it is not RECORDED that that were baptized with the Holy Ghost does not mean it didn't happen. We know that if they were saved, they had to have repented, been baptized, and received the Holy Ghost because it takes all three to be saved. None of the passages where people got baptized RECORDS that they repented. But we know they must have repented or else they would not have gotten baptized right?

So the Gentiles being baptized with the Holy Spirit in no way negates, changes, or reverses the order of verses as Acts 2:38 or Mk 16;16 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation. If it did, then those verses are not true or there are contradictions within the bible.

Your logic here is flawed because Peter did not say that it had to be done in that order. He only said this is what you need to do. There is no scriptural evidence that it has to be done in that order. On the contrary, I showed you scripture that shows people can receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized.

 

[Apostol2013]

The thief on the cross did not have to be baptized to be saved. No one before Jesus Christ died was required to be baptized to be saved. He did not command the apostles to baptize until after he was resurrected. Why is that? Because our baptism is symbolic of us being BURIED with Christ. When he was on the cross, he had not been BURIED yet so the symbolism would have made no sense. Yes John the baptist was baptizing people, but he was only baptizing them unto repentance according to Acts 19. There was no mandate during that time to be baptized in order to be saved. The only requirement was repentance. But once Jesus died on the cross, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost were all required in order to be saved. And that is exactly what Peter preached in Acts 2:38

let's look at many that the son had forgiven but Jesus said that he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy , and will grant life on whom He chooses there are requirements but His grace and understanding will abound those that look upon him and earnestly seek Him , Jesus being God could give grace to salvation at any time and I agree the thief on the cross was anted salvation via ot but we will hallways know that our God is a God of order thank you for bringing that back to my remembrance

 

[Apostol2013]

Well Cornelius did have to be baptized by h.s an water as mandated sacraments but in the end it is grace that covers us but if one rejects the tenants of the faith it may be their loss resulting from disobedience

 

[SeaBass]

This is not true Seabass. While the gentiles being baptized did signify to the Jews that gentiles could now be saved, this still had everything to do with Cornelius' personal salvation and those that were with him. Now I agree that he would not have been saved if he did not get baptized. He had to complete the whole plan of salvation not just part of it. But to say that this had nothing to do with his personal salvation is wrong. The whole reason that he was able to hear preaching and be saved was because he had been faithful and devoted to God and God honored that by giving him and his household the opportunity to obey the gospel.

I do not agree. The Jews in Acts 2, the eunuch, and other conversions in Acts were NOT baptized with the HS. Were none of those in these in other conversions in Acts not saved since they were not baptized with the HS?

This also is not true. Acts 8:17 reports that people received the Holy Ghost and so does Acts 19:6. So there are four times that are RECORDED. But of course every person that was saved in the new testament had to have been baptized with the Holy Ghost because that is part of salvation according to John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Romans 8:9, etc.

Again, I do not agree. Baptism with the HS was something only the Lord can do it in with Acts 2 with the apostles and Acts 10 with the Gentiles, humans hands were not involved. The apostles were baptized with the HS and had the power to lay hands upon another person and pass on an apostolic sign, but no man has the ability to baptize with the HS.

Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38 is water baptism the ONE baptism that is now in effect per Eph 4:5.
I see not see the one water baptism in Rom 8:9

This I agree with.

If you agree then you see that Joel's prophecy about baptism with the HS was fulfilled by the Lord when the Lord baptized Jew acts 2 and Gentile Acts 10 with the HS. Mt 5:17,18 >> if this prophecy of Joel was not fulfilled by the Lord, then every jot and tittle of the OT law is still in effect and Christ failed in fulfilling and taking away the OT.
(Fulfilling meaning to cease, bring to an end.)

Once again, this is not true. Just because it it is not RECORDED that that were baptized with the Holy Ghost does not mean it didn't happen. We know that if they were saved, they had to have repented, been baptized, and received the Holy Ghost because it takes all three to be saved. None of the passages where people got baptized RECORDS that they repented. But we know they must have repented or else they would not have gotten baptized right?

I cannot just assume what is not there. If you can assume baptism with the HS in those contexts then anyone can assume anything in those contexts.

Acts 1:1-4 shows baptism with the HS was only a promise made to the apostles and Acts 2 shows it was only the apostles that received this baptism.

Your logic here is flawed because Peter did not say that it had to be done in that order. He only said this is what you need to do. There is no scriptural evidence that it has to be done in that order. On the contrary, I showed you scripture that shows people can receive the Holy Ghost before being baptized.

No one can change, rearrange verses. Both Acts 2:28 and Mk 16:16 put water baptism BEFORE salvation. So Cornelious cannot be saved until he was first water baptized.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It always requires water because that is what the bible requires. See my previous posts with all the scriptures that specifically say IN WATER. Jesus Christ was baptized IN WATER, John baptized people IN WATER. Paul baptized people IN WATER. Phillip baptized people IN WATER! That is why it requires water. We have been commanded to be baptized. We obviously cannot make the Holy Ghost baptize us. That happens when God feels we are ready for it. The only way we can obey that command is to be baptized IN WATER. That means if you are baptized in anything else (kool-aid, soda, mud, whatever) you baptism is in vain because you didn't obey the commandment. See Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-49.

And being assembled together with them commanded them that the should no depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father; which saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the holy Spirit not many days hence. Acts 1:4,5

Mark 1:7,8 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus] shall baptize you with the holy Spirit.

John 1:32,33 And John bare record saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the holy Spirit.

Originally posted by: apostolic862004

The thief on the cross did not have to be baptized to be saved. No one before Jesus Christ died was required to be baptized to be saved. He did not command the apostles to baptize until after he was resurrected. Why is that? Because our baptism is symbolic of us being BURIED with Christ. When he was on the cross, he had not been BURIED yet so the symbolism would have made no sense. Yes John the baptist was baptizing people, but he was only baptizing them unto repentance according to Acts 19. There was no mandate during that time to be baptized in order to be saved. The only requirement was repentance. But once Jesus died on the cross, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost were all required in order to be saved. And that is exactly what Peter preached in Acts 2:38

Jesus Christ baptizes with spiritual water, i.e. living water, i.e. holy Spirit. Water and Spirit is a figure of speech hendiadys wherein two nouns are used to mean one thing - water and Spirit i.e. spiritual water.

John 4:10, 13,14 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. . . . Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37,38 In the last day that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

You are correct water baptism is symbolic of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is all it is, symbolic. Some churches even use baptism as a means of joining that particular church. Should we be baptized in water? - it's okay either way - I believe that if a person confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, they are saved. Once you are born again Jesus baptizes you in holy Spirit. [verses above] Let's say a person confessed Jesus as Lord and believed God raised him from the dead but he was out of town at another church. He planned on getting baptized at his own church when he returned home but the plane he was on crashed and he never made it home . . . Is he still saved or did he lose his salvation because he didn't get water baptized?

 

[Apostol2013]

And being assembled together with them commanded them that the should no depart from Jerusalem but wait for the promise of the Father; which saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the holy Spirit not many days hence. Acts 1:4,5

Mark 1:7,8 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus] shall baptize you with the holy Spirit.

John 1:32,33 And John bare record saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ baptizes with spiritual water, i.e. living water, i.e. holy Spirit. Water and Spirit is a figure of speech hendiadys wherein two nouns are used to mean one thing - water and Spirit i.e. spiritual water.

John 4:10, 13,14 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. . . . Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37,38 In the last day that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

You are correct water baptism is symbolic of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is all it is, symbolic. Some churches even use baptism as a means of joining that particular church. Should we be baptized in water? - it's okay either way - I believe that if a person confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, they are saved. Once you are born again Jesus baptizes you in holy Spirit. [verses above] Let's say a person confessed Jesus as Lord and believed God raised him from the dead but he was out of town at another church. He planned on getting baptized at his own church when he returned home but the plane he was on crashed and he never made it home . . . Is he still saved or did he lose his salvation because he didn't get water baptized?

You see a person that did not get a chance to get water baptized was saved in His case that is grace in effect but if one has the opportunity to do so but so rejects it then in a sense rejects Christ through disobedience as our own and commander Lord Jesus did so by example that we should all follow we can try to configure a gospel of our own accord but as a trully God loving Son I teach true gospel pure and uncut that it may be a benefit to whosoever is willing to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost id still in effect God will grant salvation to whom He wishes but we must be watchful to not reject the gift of the Holy Ghost for this is an atribute due to disbelief for it takes faith to receive anc God will give it to as many as take His calling and ask for the gift it is there just ready to be received

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus Christ baptizes with spiritual water, i.e. living water, i.e. holy Spirit. Water and Spirit is a figure of speech hendiadys wherein two nouns are used to mean one thing - water and Spirit i.e. spiritual water.

John 4:10, 13,14 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. . . . Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37,38 In the last day that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Amen! In Jewish writings water is a very rich symbol. In Jeremiah 2:13, God Himself is called the "fountain of living water." For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living water, And hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water. Also in Jeremiah 17:13 - O Lord, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You shall be ashamed. "Those who depart from Me Shall be written in the earth, Because they have forsaken the Lord, The fountain of living water." In Isaiah 12:3 we read, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation."

Jesus, in offering the Spirit for those who believe in Him (John 7:38-39), this living water does depict the Spirit and Life and is able to satisfy people's thirst for God. The cries of the psalmists are answered. David prayed, "O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water" (Psalm 63:1). The sons of Korah sang, "As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God (Psalm 42:1-2).

"Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life" (Revelation 22:17). "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water" (John 4:10). but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14) ..drink into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Jesus connects living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism. I find it interesting that those who teach salvation by water baptism never seem to have much to say about living water. ​

I believe that if a person confesses Jesus as Lord and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, they are saved. Once you are born again Jesus baptizes you in holy Spirit.

Amen! Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess, which is not two separate steps to salvation (believe today, confess next week, finally saved next week) but chronologically together. 1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord.

 

[homwardbound]

This is one topic I haven't seen on this forum:

Is water baptism essential to salvation?

Does it matter how you are baptized? (Sprinkled or fully immersed)

Does it matter what is said when they baptize you? (Father, Son, Holy, In Jesus name, name of the Lord Jesus?)

Is there only one Baptism, ultimately?
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 1:33
And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

When first born into this world from the womb, the water (amniotic fluid) breaks and one is born into this world right?

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 10:47
“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.

Holy Spirit Baptism, already took place before water, and if lets say they did not get Baptized in water afterwards, would that make the gift God already gave void?
I agree withe water Baptism, as a:

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So, when one decides to be water baptized think on this wise maybe, why are you deciding this? To be approved by the people, to be a member of a denomination and approved by them?

Or as a response in thankfulness to God as the Gentiles of Cornelius's house were that day, received the Spirit of God from God before any rituals were performed.
So they willingly in thanksgiving and praise got water Babtized, showing this good conscience in thanksgiving and praise you
think

So, lets all maybe pray for:
Hebrews 13:18
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

 

[Patnubay]

This is one topic I haven't seen on this forum:Is water baptism essential to salvation?

The word " ESSENTIAL" is the key word here.

Let me rephrase : Jesus' death and resurrection will not give us salvation unless we are baptized. Heretical, don't you think?

Mark 16:16New King James Version (NKJV)16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

PS: Note that only those who does not believe will be condemned.

it matter how you are baptized? (Sprinkled or fully immersed)

I say, depending on your denomination. Both ways are supported by bible verses.

Does it matter what is said when they baptize you? (Father, Son, Holy, In Jesus name, name of the Lord Jesus?) (Sprinkled or fully immersed)

Technically, baptizing one in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a bit redundant because They are actually One and the same but Jesus said so:

Matthew 28:18-20New King James Version (NKJV)18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[b]

 

[homwardbound]

You see a person that did not get a chance to get water baptized was saved in His case that is grace in effect but if one has the opportunity to do so but so rejects it then in a sense rejects Christ through disobedience as our own and commander Lord Jesus did so by example that we should all follow we can try to configure a gospel of our own accord but as a trully God loving Son I teach true gospel pure and uncut that it may be a benefit to whosoever is willing to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost id still in effect God will grant salvation to whom He wishes but we must be watchful to not reject the gift of the Holy Ghost for this is an atribute due to disbelief for it takes faith to receive anc God will give it to as many as take His calling and ask for the gift it is there just ready to be received

So I say, watch out for work the wrong work the can void the gift?
For if I give you something, it is yours right? Now if I tell you to work now, you have to, is it any longer a gift?
But if I tell you, you are free to work or not, how will you respond?
In appreciation to this gift or take it for granted?
You see as what I am seeing is, there are those working at it withy fear and trembling, honestly wanting and striving, and I see them coming to the end of this amazing energy of their own true wants to do what God wants them to do, and wow!!!!!!!!!!!! to that
So when this crossroads hits, and these persons come to this place in incongruities, not ever being perfect in and of themselves, even with asking God to help them all the way, hit the dead end road block, head on and have to make a choice:

Seeing they can't be perfect, seeing inside themselves they have wanted to be, and just can't get there, seeing all the incongruities in being commanded to be perfect and Father can see no sin or else you get obliterated, as you have now come to the crossroads in seeing under law you can't ever be perfect, and under it, you better start cutting off limbs, better for part of me to go to heaven than all of me go to hell.

So at this crossroads is where one makes the final decision in "who wants to be a million-air"?
And the answer is I believe to be this million-air in Spirit and truth alone?
Or I do not believe in God to be that, rather I believe in me and this world to get me there?

The difference in serving, this world or God? Self or God?

 

[SeaBass]

Well Cornelius did have to be baptized by h.s an water as mandated sacraments but in the end it is grace that covers us but if one rejects the tenants of the faith it may be their loss resulting from disobedience

1) the fact water baptism was commanded, if for no other reason, makes water baptism essential. Acts 2:41, one has not accepted the gospel message until he has been water baptized, ie, not being water baptized is rejection of the gospel message.

2) Acts 10:35 Cornelius would have to 'work righteousness' to be accepted with God. Psa 119:172 says all God's commandments are righteousness, therefore God's command to be water baptized is righteousness therefore Cornelius would not be accepted with God until he "worked righteousness" ie, obeyed God's command to be water baptized.

3) no event in Acts 10 changes, re arranges, negates the order of Acts 2:38; Mk 16:16 that put water baptism BEFORE salvation.

4) no kind of "spirit baptism" is the like manner way Jew and Gentiles in the book of Acts were saved. Water baptism was the common thread, the like manner way in those conversions.

5) there is one baptism in effect. Proper exegesis of Eph 4:5 is taking baptize at its literal meaning, a literal immersion in water.
F.F. Bruce: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106). Baptism is not used figuratively in Eph 4:5, it's a literal water immersion. This must mean then that 1 Cor 1:14,16 and 1 Cor 12:13 both refer to the one WATER baptism of Eph 4:5, else one creates two baptisms contrary to Eph 4:5 by trying to make 1 Cor 12:13 some kind of "spirit baptism"