baptism problem

[cenallen]

water baptism is not the new covenant, it is what you think/believe it is.
Baptism means different things and not fixed to water.
1 Corinthians 15:29 29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

So are you trying to tell me people were water baptised unto dead!?

apparently you don't know there have always been (erroneous) sects who thought they could be baptized for the salvation of the dead. its error.

to this day mormons do it.

no one is able to baptise anyone with Holy Spirit, it is Jesus who baptises with Holy Spirit.

Jesus didn't say baptising them in water, he just said baptise them in his name Jesus Christ.

so if they weren't baptizing them in water, and they can't baptize with the Holy Spirit, why were they baptizing at all?

people just assume baptism is water relate and twist words saying water baptism is the new covenant.
All part of church tradition that brainwash people!

who has said baptism is the New Covenant?
you don't pay attention to what you are reading.

just like how many believe sunday is sabbath day

what do you do on saturdays?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i'm not wasting time playing games with you.
you asked where was water referenced in the red sea, as they were baptized unto moses .
they followed him as their leader and guide.

1. You are wasting my time. I asked where it said they were baptized into water. Yet you just admited they were baptized INTO moses, not water, and you still wish to argue.

2. They were not baptized into water, the egyptian army was, when they were completel;y immersed in the waters of the red sea and died.

do you not understand types leading to the New Covenant?

yes I do. Peter said that just of the waters of the flood was a type. so to is water baptism. It does not save us, It is a type of what truly washes us, the blood of Christ. You can be baptised all you want. Unless your washed by the blood by being baptised into Christ. all you will do is get wet.

Circumcision was the OT type. Water Baptism is the NT type. Both reprresent being washed by God. both represent Christ. Paul made this clear.

water does not wash away sin - God does.
what are Jesus' exact words in commanding how the saved are to express their willingness to receive His pardon?

Then why are you demanding water washes us, and rejecting the fact God washes us? would you rather be baptised by God or man? Which has the power to wash you?

(i do not know why you have not addressed why there is no THEN is Christ's words - where is it?):

Matthew 28 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, [THEN ? at some point later perhaps ?] baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus commanded his sent that the teaching about, and receiving of Him as Savior and Lord is expressed by and connected with water baptism. you will not find any mature christian who denies this, throughout history.

Paul is in history was he not? Paul said he was sent to preach the gospel not baptize. If water baptism is part of the gospel Paul lied. Should I trust Paul or you?

do you have peter and Jesus in disagreement with paul?

Actually it is you who do this. In my view, they all agree.

why did God bother sending men to preach the gospel? isn't preaching and hearing a "work" of men in your world?

it is the work of God that you believe. Jesus did not even claim to do the work even when he taught, He gave God the credit. Nice way to twist.

Acts 2 38and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

not εἰς eis, into, but ἐπί epi, upon

For someone who likes to use greek, you need to study more

repent is 2nd person plural. it is a ommand given to everyone there

Baptize is 3rd person singular. it is a command given to only a select group of people.

The only way to figure out WHO peter is telling to be baptized, we must find the other 2nd person pronoun. Which is remmision of sin.

He is telling everyone to repent, what they will get is the gift of the spirit (also 2nd person plural)

He is telling ONLY those who have recieved remission of sin (also 3rd person singular) to be baptized in the name of the lord.

what your eis vs eni means I have no clue. I never stated it meant to be baptized into Christ. Peter is not talking about spirit baptism here. He is telling those who have recieved the gift of the spirit due to their repentnace to be baptised in water. JUST like he did to those in acts 10. Which we know why. Because those in acts 10 had recieved the baptism of the spirit.

that's the point. you could just say you get it.

Get what? Why would we even be speaking about someone being baptized INTO the spirit? Scripture does not even speak of this. It speaks of a baptism OF the spirit.

Matthew 28 19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

[/QUOTE]

Baptize who?? THEM! if they are not disciples yet. DO NOT BAPTIZE THEM. get the picture??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

could you please show where (in any language) the israelites are said to have been baptized INTO moses...into union with moses? why would they be baptized INTO union with moses? he couldn't save anyone!
you clearly don't get it.

the word is unto - to (consecrate to), not into..

1 cor 10: 2

All were baptized INTO (eis) moses, in the cloud and in the sea.

If you cant get this straight. Nothing else you say matters.

The egyptions were baptized into the sea,

Non of this baptism had a thing to do with salvation. Not everyone who was baptized into moses were saved. Most of them walked the wilderness for 40 years and died their because they sinned and did not believe.

You need to study more my friend.

 

[cenallen]

1. You are wasting my time. I asked where it said they were baptized into water. Yet you just admited they were baptized INTO moses, not water, and you still wish to argue.

2. They were not baptized into water, the egyptian army was, when they were completel;y immersed in the waters of the red sea and died.

i agree i'm wasting your time, because you refuse to admit you're teaching false doctrine and being deceptive about the greek.

but since i notice you like to cover over the mistakes you make by not referring back to them, here are the posts you made. i'll do this once more.

what does paul say?

1 Corinthians 10 1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea

you are right in your definition all except for one part. The word "WATER" is not found. The children of Isreal were baptized INTO moses. Moses was not water.

moses was not water? who said he was water?

1 Corinthians 10 1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea;

you are right in your definition all except for one part. The word "WATER" is not found.

1 Corinthians 10 1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea;


sea (WATER)
θάλασσα, ης, ἡ

under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea

does it say
1) all to Moses were baptized in the cloud and in the sea?
2) is θάλασσα, ης, ἡ sea, specifically the red sae, water?

it does NOT say they were baptized into moses, being united to him.

you're trying to make it look like i said moses baptized people with water.
i said no such thing.

yes I do. Peter said that just of the waters of the flood was a type. so to is water baptism. It does not save us, It is a type of what truly washes us, the blood of Christ.

baptism is a SIGN - to God!
of our agreement that we have understood that the shed blood of Christ does save us, that we have understood we are sinners in need of the Savor, and have and will repent and continue to consecrate and dedicate ourselves to Him for the rest of our lives. we obey the simple and clear instructions: REPENT BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND RECEIVE THE COMFORTER.

that is, until someone comes along and overshadows the clear teachings causing division and doubt, even scattering the people over the basic principles of christian conversion.

Hebrews 6 1 Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God, 2 of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during, 3 and this we will do, if God may permit

could you please show where peter said baptismal water is a type of christ's blood? he didn't. he said the water that saved Noah is a type of what we do in christian baptism - in obedience to the command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, we submit/yield to baptism in water, baptized unto./consecrated unto Christ.

if you tell your girlfriend's parents you love her and will court and marry her and be faithful to her - then just shack up, did you lie to her parents? did you demonstrate your love? did you do what is expected? were you ever really married to her even though you lived together?

You can be baptised all you want. Unless your washed by the blood by being baptised into Christ. all you will do is get wet.

that is true.
you can claim faith in Christ all you want - if you think baptism is optional or non-existent or not important, all you will do is say Lord, Lord, not doing the things He says.

Circumcision was the OT type. Water Baptism is the NT type. Both reprresent being washed by God. both represent Christ. Paul made this clear.

really? show me where circumcision represented being washed.
show me where removed foreskin represents Christ

No it does not. if you believe this, you might as well be circumcized also. because your trying to earn your salvation by your works. and not by the work of Christ.

was circumcision optional in the Old Covenant?

baptize DISCIPLES. you baptize THEM/ Jesus did not tell them to go and make people disciples by baptizing them, He said make them disciples. and THEN baptise them

have you corrected this error yet?

Then why are you demanding water washes us, and rejecting the fact God washes us? would you rather be baptised by God or man? Which has the power to wash you?

can you not read what peter said? the water is not for removing dirt from the body, it is for an APPEAL TO GOD for the cleansing of the conscience by His forgiving our sins, according to His promise to do so, upon repentence.

it is a sign to HIM that we believe what He has said. all christians but you apparently understand this.
Jesus made it so clear yet you consciously go against Him.

Paul is in history was he not? Paul said he was sent to preach the gospel not baptize. If water baptism is part of the gospel Paul lied. Should I trust Paul or you?

trust paul - but read all of his writings. he was an apostle. others baptized, as he said.
you actually believe paul contradicts peter and Jesus.

it is the work of God that you believe. Jesus did not even claim to do the work even when he taught, He gave God the credit. Nice way to twist.

not worthy of rebuttal.

For someone who likes to use greek, you need to study more

repent is 2nd person plural. it is a ommand given to everyone there

Baptize is 3rd person singular. it is a command given to only a select group of people.

this is quite embarrassing for you.
it is in the passive tense, meaning baptism is something we receive, not "do" - like remission of sins. we receive it.
so only a select few in history were baptized in water and now it doesn't matter?

The only way to figure out WHO peter is telling to be baptized, we must find the other 2nd person pronoun. Which is remmision of sin.

He is telling everyone to repent, what they will get is the gift of the spirit (also 2nd person plural)

He is telling ONLY those who have recieved remission of sin (also 3rd person singular) to be baptized in the name of the lord.

ahem.
go back again. sorry.

He is telling those who have recieved the gift of the spirit due to their repentnace to be baptised in water.

is he? show me your translation.

Acts 2 38 and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

Baptize who?? THEM! if they are not disciples yet. DO NOT BAPTIZE THEM. get the picture??

NATIONS. can you read it?

He says DISCIPLE ALL THE NATIONS BAPTIZING THEM, and teaching them to observe all, whatever I have commanded.

could you post your translation please?

Matthew 28 18 And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, 'Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth; 19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'

again, this is a shame that as a professing Christian even Wikipedia understand the command, yet you twist it.

The most famous version of the Great Commission is in Matthew 28:16–20, where on a mountain in Galilee Jesus calls on his followers to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[cenallen]

1 cor 10: 2

All were baptized INTO (eis) moses, in the cloud and in the sea.

If you cant get this straight. Nothing else you say matters.

The egyptions were baptized into the sea,

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Unto Moses - (εἰς eis). This is the same preposition which is used in the form of baptism prescribed in Matthew 28:19. See the note at that place. It means that they were thus devoted or dedicated to Moses; they received and acknowledged him as their ruler and guide; they professed subjection to his laws, and were brought under his authority. They were thus "initiated into" his religion, and thus recognized his divine mission, and bound themselves to obey his injunctions - Bloomfield

In the name ... - This phrase does not mean, here, "by the authority" of the Father, etc. To be baptized in the name of the Father, etc., is the same as to be baptized "unto" the Father; as to believe on the "name" of Christ is the same as to believe "on Christ," John 1:12; John 2:23; John 3:18; 1 Corinthians 1:13. To be baptized "unto" anyone is publicly to receive and adopt him as a religious teacher or lawgiver; to receive his system of religion. Thus, the Jews were baptized "unto Moses," 1 Corinthians 10:2. That is, they received the system that he taught; they acknowledged him as their lawgiver and teacher

Non of this baptism had a thing to do with salvation. Not everyone who was baptized into moses were saved. Most of them walked the wilderness for 40 years and died their because they sinned and did not believe.

You need to study more my friend.

who said it did?
this was because you initially DENIED water was even mentioned here:

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

typically for you, i see, you are now proceeding as if you had never denied it.

i've spent enough time on this.
next time i come across a 'christian' who teaches what you do concerning baptism i'll be prepared. thankfully so far you're the only person i've met who so fearlessly treats sacred baptism with contempt, so much so you're willing to mishandle the Bible and lie about what you've already stated (and not stated).

enough.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i agree i'm wasting your time, because you refuse to admit you're teaching false doctrine and being deceptive about the greek.

1. I teach a gospel of faith in Christ.
2. You teach a gospel of faith plus works.

I think scripture shows who is right.

I said you were wasting my time because you can't even respond properly to what I am saying.

but since i notice you like to cover over the mistakes you make by not referring back to them, here are the posts you made. i'll do this once more.

what does paul say?

1 Corinthians 10 1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea

1 Corinthians 10 1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea;


sea (WATER)
θάλασσα, ης, ἡ

under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea

and what version of scripture is this? the cenallen version?

1 Corinthians 10:2–4 (NKJV)

2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


1 Corinthians 10:2–4 (NASB95)

2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.




1 Corinthians 10:2–4 (NIV84)

2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 ....

Why is it that you switched the order of the words. And you expect people to listen to you??

does it say
1) all to Moses were baptized in the cloud and in the sea?
2) is θάλασσα, ης, ἡ sea, specifically the red sae, water?

It does not say this period, you switrched the order of the words.

it does NOT say they were baptized into moses, being united to him.

It says they were baptised into moses period. It means they were united with him. why? they all drank the same spiritual food, and drank the same spiritual drin, Which was Christ.

But you don't get this!

you're trying to make it look like i said moses baptized people with water.
i said no such thing.

I never stated or mentioned such a thing. You just THINK I say this because you have water stuck in your head everytime you see the word baptize, even though I have already proven the word in greek does not even mean water.

baptism is a SIGN - to God!

God does not need a sign. I am sorry you think so lowly of God

of our agreement that we have understood that the shed blood of Christ does save us, that we have understood we are sinners in need of the Savor, and have and will repent and continue to consecrate and dedicate ourselves to Him for the rest of our lives. we obey the simple and clear instructions: REPENT BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND RECEIVE THE COMFORTER.

What you are teaching is God needs a work of righteousness performed by us in order to save us. But what does paul say?

Not by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE (this would include water baptism, going to church, giving to the poor. works of the law, any work we do) but he saved us by the washing (baptism) and renewing (new birth) OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

You wish to make it the WASHING of man in natural water, when it the washing of the HS in spiritual water. (see also john 4)

until you get this straight, and stop twisting the order of scripture. there is no need wasting my time on anything else you say

 

[cenallen]

1. I teach a gospel of faith in Christ.
2. You teach a gospel of faith plus works.

you teach.....something. not the Gospel of the Bible.
goodbye.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And Shimeon said to them, “Return to God and be immersed everyone of you, in the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua, for release from sin, so that you may receive the gift of The Spirit of Holiness.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Peter answered them, "All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

King James 2000 Bible
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Webster's Bible Translation
Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Weymouth New Testament
"Repent," replied Peter, "and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, with a view to the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

World English Bible
Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Young's Literal Translation
and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,


Peter! teaching a gospel of "works" according to eternally-gratefull!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you teach.....something. not the Gospel of the Bible.
goodbye.

Goodbye! But I will pray for you

My faith is in Christ, and his work on the cross. He said it is finished, he did not say I did my part. now you do yours.

your faith is in your work and the man who baptized you.

You keep your faith. i will keep mine.

and PS. Acts 2 was written in greek not in english.

 

[xino]

@cenallen

so if they weren't baptizing them in water, and they can't baptize with the Holy Spirit, why were they baptizing at all?

That's the whole point I've been saying, that water baptism doesn't mean anything
John clearly says someone who is more worthy than him is coming and he would baptise with the holy spirit and fire.
Jesus said John's baptism was of repentance and he would baptise his disciples in matter of days.
Paul told those 2 people who were baptised that they had John's baptism but they would receive the holy spirit if they were baptised in Jesus Christ.

I'm tired of posting scriptures, read my past post to see the in-depth i've done. People just ignore my post and just want to get out their opinion.

who has said baptism is the New Covenant?
you don't pay attention to what you are reading.

"water baptism is a New Covenant ordinance, not separated in any way from receiving the doctrines of Christ." - that is what you wrote
Or did I read it wrong?
like I said, people refer baptism meaning as water baptism.
As bible clearly gives different types of baptism

what do you do on saturdays?

you either rest on saturdays or work!
Even though bible old testament says we should honour the sabbath day. Jesus worked on sabbath day and said Sabbath was made for man not man for sabbath.
Meaning, if it's Man made for Sabbath then it means every man MUST NOT work on sabbath.
Though since Sabbath was made for man, it means man can rest whenever they have the chance on sabbath.

if you -love- on Sabbath day while working, it doesn't matter if you did not rest because the love fulfilled the honouring on sabbath. And love is more powerful than all commandments in bible.

 

[cenallen]

he would baptise with the holy spirit and fire.

Matthew 28 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

who is Jesus speaking to here?
is he telling them to baptize with the Holy Spirit?

"water baptism is a New Covenant ordinance, not separated in any way from receiving the doctrines of Christ."
that is what you wrote
Or did I read it wrong?

The New Covenant is forgiveness of sins in Christ's Name, on the ground of His Finished Work on the Cross.
The Good News is what He has done for us.

Matthew 28 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

"water baptism is a New Covenant ordinance, not separated in any way from receiving the doctrines of Christ."

like I said, people refer baptism meaning as water baptism.
As bible clearly gives different types of baptism

the context determines what is meant by it.
to be baptized with/by fire is hellfire judgment.
water baptism is obvious.

 

[xino]

Matthew 28 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

who is Jesus speaking to here?
is he telling them to baptize with the Holy Spirit?

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
he said in the name of Father/God, Son/Jesus and Holy Spirit/Advocate/truth/ghost.
All are one, the holy trinity, are all Jesus Christ.
"I am the bread of life"
"I am the truth, the way and the life"
"I will send my second companion, the spirit of truth"
"I will send you my advocate"

Jesus said baptise them in his name Jesus Christ, not in holy spirit. Jesus is the only person who can give us the holy spirit. John said so, Paul said so and Jesus said so!
Peter was the one who has the keys to the kingdom, he opens the gate and Jesus pours out his holy spirit.

If you believe Jesus said we should baptise in Holy SPirit, then what about Father and SOn? how does one gets baptised with the other 2? makes no sense

The New Covenant is forgiveness of sins in Christ's Name, on the ground of His Finished Work on the Cross.
The Good News is what He has done for us.

Matthew 28 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

"water baptism is a New Covenant ordinance, not separated in any way from receiving the doctrines of Christ."

you don't make sense as you contradict yourself.
You say the new convenant is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus's name (correct.
And now you say water baptism is the holy way.
WOw...way to twist the bible words.
Matt 28:19 clearly says baptise in Jesus Christ, NOT 'water'

Luke 12:50
that is what been buried to christ means, Not when you go in water because Jesus did not die in water.



please get the thought of baptism=water out of your head.
check any dictionary and water isn't mentioned in the definition of baptised

 

[cenallen]

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
he said in the name of Father/God, Son/Jesus and Holy Spirit/Advocate/truth/ghost.
All are one, the holy trinity, are all Jesus Christ.
"I am the bread of life"
"I am the truth, the way and the life"
"I will send my second companion, the spirit of truth"
"I will send you my advocate"

Jesus said baptise them in his name Jesus Christ, not in holy spirit. Jesus is the only person who can give us the holy spirit. John said so, Paul said so and Jesus said so!

alright.
please re-read what you wrote.

now read this again:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

if they or we are not able to baptize in the Holy Spirit (as you agree), then what sort of baptism is Jesus commanding them (and us) to go and do?

the answer is water. do you agree?

you don't make sense as you contradict yourself.
You say the new convenant is the forgiveness of sins through Jesus's name (correct.
And now you say water baptism is the holy way.
WOw...way to twist the bible words.

i said water baptism is a New Covenant ordinance. something we do as people who have heard the gospel and believed it. peter said water does not wash away sins, God does, that baptism is an appeal to God (according to baptism Jesus commanded) for a clean conscience (we agree we are sinners who have and are repenting, and we agree that only Jesus Blood shed can atone for our sins). we are indenitfying with Him in His death, burial and resurrection.

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

is this not exceedingly clear?

Jesus also instructed us to take The Lord's Supper:

Luke 22 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Matt 28:19 clearly says baptise in Jesus Christ, NOT 'water'

so, you actually do believe that here Jesus is telling the disciples to go and baptize in the Holy Spirit? or in Christ? how do they baptize into Christ?

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

how is this done? you already said:

Jesus said baptise them in his name Jesus Christ, not in holy spirit. Jesus is the only person who can give us the holy spirit. John said so, Paul said so and Jesus said so!

so, wouldn't Jesus have said:

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, and I will baptize them in the Holy Spirit.?

He didn't say that.

Luke 12:50
that is what been buried to christ means, Not when you go in water because Jesus did not die in water.

Luke 12 50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

do you think you will be crucified, buried and raised on the 3rd day in order to be saved?

is that what Jesus commanded for us here?

Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

no one said Jesus died in water!
you yourself have already rightly said baptism has varying applications.

please get the thought of baptism=water out of your head.
check any dictionary and water isn't mentioned in the definition of baptised

bap·tism   [bap-tiz-uhm]
noun
1.
Ecclesiastical . a ceremonial immersion in water, or application of water, as an initiatory rite or sacrament of the Christian church.


that didn't take long.


i won't bother you with it any longer, since i have been baptized,
and since someone has taught you to reject baptism.
i am sorry for that.

 

[xino]

why do I have a feeling you'd post the Acts 2:38

well I'm also done with you.
if you are ready to open your eyes and listen, read my previous post

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why do I have a feeling you'd post the Acts 2:38

well I'm also done with you.
if you are ready to open your eyes and listen, read my previous post

He is blinded by tradition. We know this because he states we supposedly reject baptism. We do not reject it at all, we just refuse to replace baptism done by God with baptism done by the hands of men, Acting like the jews in Pauls day.

I have been baptized in water, I remember like it was yesterday even though it was over 30 years ago. But I reject baptism.. lol.

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

alright, so according to you, baptism problem? no, problem solved.

 

[xino]

I came across this site
Baptism: A Flood of Confusion | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site <--

i love it!
everything single point I was trying to make to people, this site POINTED Out!

i just love it because as I was reading it, it was like the site was reading my mind.

in fact I have more scriptures to back up my and the site's point.


People just think the word "baptism" means water immersion which causes the problem and endless circle.
If people CAN understand that real meaning of baptism means immersion, they would be able to get somewhere.


also check this site out!

http://cgca.net/coglinks/origin/HistoryofBaptism.html <--

 

[Elizabeth619]

Have you been baptised?
a simple question.


I found out that Christiening (sprinkling water on an infant as baptism) means nothing and is not even in the bible.
It is just another human rule tradition.

Ever since I found out, I've been anxious to get baptised, now the problem is, many churches around me are turning baptism into what they want.

Originally when you repent, you get baptised straight away however churches are using baptism as an opportunity to trap people as members of their church.
This is what we call Church Denomination, meaning getting baptised with a church means you are a member of the church. Another way of saying Baptism by Membership.
To some people, this is a good thing but to others is stupid and just a trap.
Why should one be bounded by 1 church? what if that person wants to visit another church?

I want to get baptised at a usual church I started going to, they told me I must go through a training. What training!???
A friend of mine who is knowledgeable in the bible said he can find out if I can get baptised at his church, now him too is telling me his church needs to get money to perform baptism because they need to rent a pool and I need to be taught a few things before being baptised.
Now the new church I just went today, I asked the pastor if I could get baptised ASAP, he said I will have to wait till September to be baptised. Because it's much like a group baptism.


This is completely retarded and atrocious! What if Jesus comes tomorrow eh? and I'm still bloody waiting to be baptised.

All these churches and their rules!
It is not a big deal to get baptised or hard. All you need is a bathtub, water and dip the person inside. Why all the exaggeration and commotions? Why all the ceremonials man? these things are not even in the bible (unless someone can point them out to me here)


so have you been baptised recently? (not as an infant)
how was the baptism?
and how does your church baptise people?

I was baptized in 1996 when I was 15 years old. They have a baptistry there, and there is where it happened.
It was actually after church services were over when I made the final decision. I had been thinking about it for a long time, and was ready but I honestly think the only thing that held me back was being timid about standing before the congregation.
After services were over I actually started crying uncontrollably. Could not explain why, but I could not stop crying for the life of me. One of the elders of the congregation appraoched me. Asked what was wrong, and I just blurted out that I needed to be baptized.

Immediately he called for the churches attention(this was right after service so most were still standing around talking) and announced I wanted to become a Christian.
He stood in front of me and said "Beth, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?" My tearful response was "Yes".
I went to change in to baptistry clothing and was then baptized in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. I was immersed in water, and when I came up out of the water I literall felt like a weight was off my shoulders. I became a child of God. My past sins were washed away.

Now, as far as what happened to you I will agree 100% that is insane. To WAIT for baptism? Ask for money? What in the world?

They type of congregation I attend we as baptized the SAME day we accept Jesus. We dont get saved, and then baptized later on down the road. It is all done the same day.

To me, baptism is required for salvation. It isn't what saves you, but we need to have our sins washed away to become new.
Baptism is the "death" of your sinful life, and the "resurrection" of a new life with Christ. I hope this explains my view so you can see where I am coming from.

 

[xino]

I was baptized in 1996 when I was 15 years old. They have a baptistry there, and there is where it happened.
It was actually after church services were over when I made the final decision. I had been thinking about it for a long time, and was ready but I honestly think the only thing that held me back was being timid about standing before the congregation.
After services were over I actually started crying uncontrollably. Could not explain why, but I could not stop crying for the life of me. One of the elders of the congregation appraoched me. Asked what was wrong, and I just blurted out that I needed to be baptized.

Immediately he called for the churches attention(this was right after service so most were still standing around talking) and announced I wanted to become a Christian.
He stood in front of me and said "Beth, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?" My tearful response was "Yes".
I went to change in to baptistry clothing and was then baptized in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. I was immersed in water, and when I came up out of the water I literall felt like a weight was off my shoulders. I became a child of God. My past sins were washed away.

Now, as far as what happened to you I will agree 100% that is insane. To WAIT for baptism? Ask for money? What in the world?

They type of congregation I attend we as baptized the SAME day we accept Jesus. We dont get saved, and then baptized later on down the road. It is all done the same day.

To me, baptism is required for salvation. It isn't what saves you, but we need to have our sins washed away to become new.
Baptism is the "death" of your sinful life, and the "resurrection" of a new life with Christ. I hope this explains my view so you can see where I am coming from.

1996...I guess that must be when church only wanted to save people instead of caring about church memberships.

because now it is quite impossible for one to be baptised in water when needed.
If I go to any church and say I want to get baptised in water, they will say no that they need to make arrangements or I need some studies. Which is ridiculous.


water baptism is not required for Salvation, you have to pray, repent and confess to Jesus. It is then you are baptised spiritually by him.

Water baptism church practise today is called John's baptism which is for repentance.
But since Jesus is here, he is the one who forgives us of our sins, his blood cleanses our sins.
Water cannot do any of these things.

The reason why we say we die with Jesus and resurrect with a new life means Jesus died on the cross not under water.
It is just senseless to say we go into water for a new life. When Jesus had 2 baptism.
He had John's baptism to fufil the prophecy in Old Testament. And his second baptism is the dying/going to the cross.

James and brother came up to Jesus in Mark 10:22 asking him if they should sit at the hands of God. Jesus told them they do not know what they are asking, can they drink God's cup and Jesus baptism? they said yes.


Romans 10:9 clearly says if you confess Jesus is Lord, you will be saved. It does not talk about water,

People will use 1 Peter 3:21 but ignore 1 Peter 3:21.
Peter was talking about during the days of Noah, the water flood killed everyone except for 8 people who survived on boat through the water. Peter than said in 22 that the water is a symbol that saves you.
Excuse me but it is contradictory, how can water that killed people save you?
how can the water that saved 8 people when they sailed ABOVE the water save you when you go INSIDE the water?
that is contradictory.
Peter said it isn't the water baptism that washes away the dirt.
Tell me what does water baptism do? it basically washes away dirt from the body.

And peter said, but the pledge of conscience towards God.
Meaning when you pray, you ask Jesus to come into your life, you made a pledge to him.


Jesus blood cleanses away our sins not water
Jesus forgives us of our sins, not water
Jesus gives us life not water
Jesus saves us not water



I still haven't been baptised in water all these time but if it vital to be baptised in water as for salvation. I am sure God would have allowed me. But he showed me the truth. And now I know the truth.
My life has dramatically changed ever since I prayed and asked for forgivness.
When we are dead to our old ways, we live a new life. I have a new life which proves I am saved without taking water.
Because water does nothing. It is John's baptism.

 

[clarkthompson]

the bible also says in the great commission we are to baptise lead people to Christ and teach them the bible so all believers can do this so you can be baptisied by any baptisied believer and is the same as being baptised at a church by a pastor baptism is an act before God more than it is an act before man and as many acts we are to do if our hearts are not right about doing it it is not good to be baptisied to only be a member is wrong but to be baptisied but the LORD commanded it is right if our heart is to follow Him

 

[xino]

the bible also says in the great commission we are to baptise lead people to Christ and teach them the bible so all believers can do this so you can be baptisied by any baptisied believer and is the same as being baptised at a church by a pastor baptism is an act before God more than it is an act before man and as many acts we are to do if our hearts are not right about doing it it is not good to be baptisied to only be a member is wrong but to be baptisied but the LORD commanded it is right if our heart is to follow Him

yes but did the bible say baptise in water? no...
it does not mention water.

please study the word Baptised
original greek means Baptzo which means to immerse.
same thing with Baptised.

baptised- water immersion meaning is church to church word of mouth.
just like how church to church keep talking about trinity which is not mentioned in the bible though it is constantly used.
or even Catholics coming up with Purgatory which isn't in the bible.

people make stuff up man.
stick to the truth.