Baptism should accompany confessions of faith

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, I think you intentionally missed the direct implication.

So, to play the same game.... I did not see any mention of delaying, even for one day....

I find that many people read exactly what they want to read, not what it actually says or implies.

I did not miss anything,

I will ask you also.

A person repents. Calls on the name of the lord to be saved, but for whatever reason is not water baptized for a few months after that person called out to God. Is that person saved?

 

[ResidentAlien]

What I'd like to know is if baptism isn't an integral part of the gospel, why was it treated as such among all the New Testament believers? There's really only one thing that can account for it not being counted as an integral part of the gospel: human theology becoming more important than God's word and the Holy Spirit.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Who?

I have heard numerous of, let's call them, extreme grace people say that basically doing anything by an act of our will in regards to God is a work of law.

 

[SomeDisciple]

So how could you give a testimony when you have not even been saved yet?

You could; it would just be a different kind of testimony. People say what they think about Christ- not all come from a position of saving faith; but some are fair when you consider they may not understand, or have even heard the whole gospel. Others have a negative or a lying testimony.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have heard numerous of, let's call them, extreme grace people say that basically doing anything by an act of our will in regards to God is a work of law.

Well I have never heard it.. But as with all groups. There are extremists.. We should not attack a whole group because of a few extremists..

I mean think about it. Many churches in order to fight licentiousness preach legalism, and many churches in order to fight legalism promote licentiousness.

The best thing in my view would be to come in the middle. And just preach grace and truth

We are saved By grace period. Through faith and not works.

But those who are saved are created for good works..

Paul taught salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone. But that those who are saved will do good works..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You could; it would just be a different kind of testimony. People say what they think about Christ- not all come from a position of saving faith; but some are fair when you consider they may not understand, or have even heard the whole gospel. Others have a negative or a lying testimony.

But it would be a false testimony

I can not give a testimony of my faith in God and praise God for what he did for me, and how he changed my life. When he has not yet done it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Water baptism is not a command in the law. So it can not be a work of the law (although the law did command Gentiles who were to come into the jewish faith to be washed (baptised) in water. As well as priests, as Moses washed (baptised) Arron and his sons in the river

For the average Joe Blow that's correct, but it was a requirement for the priesthood, as you mentioned. We are the new priesthood, so it can be reasonably inferred that water immersion into the order of Melchizedek is, at the very minimum, the anti-type of induction into the Aaronic priesthood as described in Leviticus 8. When John the Baptist, the greatest Aaronic priest who ever lived, immersed Jesus in the Jordan, he transferred the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek as prophesied by David in Psalm 110:4. So there is extremely high significance to water baptism IMO. What that means exactly, I'm not sure at this point

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

For the average Joe Blow that's correct, but it was a requirement for the priesthood, as you mentioned. We are the new priesthood, so it can be reasonably inferred that water immersion into the order of Melchizedek is, at the very minimum, the anti-type of induction into the Aaronic priesthood as described in Leviticus 8. When John the Baptist, the greatest Aaronic priest who ever lived, immersed Jesus in the Jordan, he transferred the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek as prophesied by David in Psalm 110:4. So there is extremely high significance to water baptism IMO. What that means exactly, I'm not sure at this point

But water has nothing to do with it.

so it can not be part of salvation.

Do you even know what the word baptize means Oh wait. We have to go deeper. Because baptize is not even a native English word. It is a transliteration of a greek word (Baptizo) so if you want to the true defenition of the word. You have to go to the greek. And Eng;ish discionarey will nto help you. Because it is not a native english word.

Do you believe John the Baptist when he said Jesus would baptize us with the HS and fire? Is that not the true baptism which saved (or condems?)

 

[ResidentAlien]

Okay, let's see:

1. John the Baptist, the one who came to prepare the way for Jesus, practiced baptism.

2. Jesus Himself was baptized.

3. Jesus' disciples baptized during Jesus' earthly ministry.

4. Jesus commanded us to baptize and to get baptized.

5. All the early believers in the New Testament were baptized in conjunction with believing in the Lord.

6. The New Testament authors wrote and taught on baptism.

Naw, doesn't sound that integral.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But water has nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with what?

 

[ResidentAlien]

7. When Peter preached the gospel for the first time under the power of the Holy Spirit, his answer to their question, "what shall we do?" was: repent and be baptized.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Okay, let's see:

1. John the Baptist, the one who came to prepare the way for Jesus, practiced baptism.

2. Jesus Himself was baptized.

3. Jesus' disciples baptized during Jesus' earthly ministry.

4. Jesus commanded us to baptize and to get baptized.

5. All the early believers in the New Testament were baptized in conjunction with believing in the Lord.

6. The New Testament authors wrote and taught on baptism.

Naw, doesn't sound that integral.

Who says it is not a command and we should not do it?

Now. Thinking this is what saves you. Thats another discussion

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Nothing to do with what?

Salvation. Being born again, Receiving eternal life

 

[Lamar]

Yet Paul said clearly baptism was not part of the gospel.

???
Where does Paul write this?

Paul did not preach a gospel different from the other apostles and this by singling out Paul is what you are implying.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

7. When Peter preached the gospel for the first time under the power of the Holy Spirit, his answer to their question, "what shall we do?" was: repent and be baptized.

Peter did not tell them to be baptized to recieve the gift of the spirit

He told them to be baptized if they recieved remission of sin.

thats why he told EVERYONE to repent. But only induviduals to be baptized.

it would help to look deeper in the greek.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

???
Where does Paul write this?

Paul did not preach a gospel different from the other apostles and this by singling out Paul is what you are implying.

Your right, he did not

Non of the apostles or jesus himself taught we are saved through water baptism.

which you are implying.

 

[Lamar]

Eph 2 IS the gospel. And there is a reason water baptism is not in it. Just like it is not in John 3. Because water baptism is not required.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. This is the gospel.

We may debate what is to be believed but not the need to believe.
We may debate why we must be baptized but not the need to be baptized.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. This is the gospel.

If you mean baptised with the Holy Spirit, I agree.

if you mean baptise in water. Your a false teacher.

John 3. Whoever believes is not condemned, who ever does not believe is condemned already.

is your faith in Christ, or is your faith in the one who immerses you in water

We may debate what is to be believed but not the need to believe.
We may debate why we must be baptized but not the need to be baptized.

Baptize does not always mean water my friend.

That is the debate.

if you trust your water baptism to save your. Your trusting in your own works of righteousness which you did. And not in the mercy of God.. who saves us through the washing and regeneration of the spirit. Not of your pastor. And not in water

 

[Lamar]

Water baptism?

if it is, Why did Jesus in many conversations he had in the book of John never even mention it?

Yours is clearly a argument from silence. An argument used by those grasping at straws.

You would be more convincing if you tried negating the many verses that tie the remission of sins to baptism

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yours is clearly a argument from silence. An argument used by those grasping at straws.

You would be more convincing if you tried negating the many verses that tie the remission of sins to baptism

Silence?

I mentioned John 3 (no water baptism)
I mentioned John 6 (no water baptism)

The only tie that I find water baptism to remission of sin, is that John demanded that people showed fruit of having recieved it. peter told those who have recieved it to get baptized. And they did.

But hey, Again, If you want to place your faith in some sinner immersing you in water to save yourself. Again, feel free..