Baptismal Regeneration of Infants
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You need to read Matt.18:6 also. Jesus clearly states that the little children believe in Him. These are children old enough to know who Jesus is not infants or children that have not arrived at the age of accountability.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all. Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all. Romans 4:16
And to prove your statement further:
Numbers 24:1-2 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.
Was Balaam saved?
Numbers 24:1-2 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.
Was Balaam saved?
Mark 9 DOES NOT SAY THAT nor does Mark 10
[SUP]13[/SUP]People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. [SUP]14 [/SUP]When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.
[SUP]13[/SUP]People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. [SUP]14 [/SUP]When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.
S
I'm not sure why people are referencing the little children coming to Christ with the baptism of inafants...it's two different things.
There is no one on here who sees a child worshiping and reaching for Christ and says STOP!
JOHNS baptism was a baptism of repentance, that's different than dedicating your child's life to God.
The children coming to Christ is of their own accord, that's different than a parent bringing their child to get baptized in Johns baptism, which was a baptism of repentance.
Mark 1:4*NIV
4*And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 3:3*NIV
3*He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:24*NIV
24*Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.
Acts 19:4*NIV
4*Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Show me how an infant can do the baptism preached by John, the four examples listed above, on his own accord.
There is a difference in a parent dedicating their child to God, and the child itslef undergoing the baptism of repentance.
There is no one on here who sees a child worshiping and reaching for Christ and says STOP!
JOHNS baptism was a baptism of repentance, that's different than dedicating your child's life to God.
The children coming to Christ is of their own accord, that's different than a parent bringing their child to get baptized in Johns baptism, which was a baptism of repentance.
Mark 1:4*NIV
4*And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 3:3*NIV
3*He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a*baptism of repentance*for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:24*NIV
24*Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.
Acts 19:4*NIV
4*Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Show me how an infant can do the baptism preached by John, the four examples listed above, on his own accord.
There is a difference in a parent dedicating their child to God, and the child itslef undergoing the baptism of repentance.
John 3:15 (KJV) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[HR][/HR]John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[HR][/HR]John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
[HR][/HR]John 12:46 (KJV) I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
[HR][/HR]Acts 10:43 (KJV) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[HR][/HR]Romans 9:33 (KJV) As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[HR][/HR]1 John 5:1 (KJV) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
I would think those that are too young to think for themselves are too young to believe.
[HR][/HR]John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[HR][/HR]John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
[HR][/HR]John 12:46 (KJV) I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
[HR][/HR]Acts 10:43 (KJV) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[HR][/HR]Romans 9:33 (KJV) As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[HR][/HR]1 John 5:1 (KJV) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
I would think those that are too young to think for themselves are too young to believe.
Mark 9
[SUP]42 [/SUP]“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
Jesus very clearly says little ones can believe in Him. So are those little ones part of the WHOSOEVER believes in Him? And where is the cut off line for one these little ones? Does Jesus define how young they are when they believe?
[SUP]42 [/SUP]“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
Jesus very clearly says little ones can believe in Him. So are those little ones part of the WHOSOEVER believes in Him? And where is the cut off line for one these little ones? Does Jesus define how young they are when they believe?
S
Again, you are right, in this example, parents were bringing their children to be blessed by God, that is still different than a baptism of Repentace though.
People bring their children to be baptized as a blessing on the child's life, but that is what it should be called.
The very biblical example of what baptism symbolized is a pledging of a good conscience towards God and a repentance of previous sin, there is a difference.
"2 Corinthians 7:10*NIV
10*Godly sorrow*brings repentance that leads to salvation."
Again there is a difference, no one is saying bringing a child to be blessed is wrong, it's calling it a baptism that is incorrect.
People bring their children to be baptized as a blessing on the child's life, but that is what it should be called.
The very biblical example of what baptism symbolized is a pledging of a good conscience towards God and a repentance of previous sin, there is a difference.
"2 Corinthians 7:10*NIV
10*Godly sorrow*brings repentance that leads to salvation."
Again there is a difference, no one is saying bringing a child to be blessed is wrong, it's calling it a baptism that is incorrect.
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E
this is God speaking to the Israelites through the prophet Ezekiel
I'm wondering when Origen and the Catholic fathers will be mentionned
Read the text in context..so ridiculous you can hardly believe people do not see through this
24“ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!
I'm wondering when Origen and the Catholic fathers will be mentionned
Read the text in context..so ridiculous you can hardly believe people do not see through this
24“ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!
we have [to become] like a little child, and have a clean slate, by forgetting what man taught you.
3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted,
[and become as little children], ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,
the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted,
[and become as little children], ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,
the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
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E
That is not so. Faith is not a matter of the heart.
Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that faith is a gift from God, not because we deserve it, have earned it, or are worthy to have it. It is not from ourselves; it is from God. It is not obtained by our power or our free will. Faith is simply given to us by God, along with His grace and mercy, according to His holy plan and purpose, and because of that, He gets all the glory.
the Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
A newborn infant does not know their mother...they recognize who is feeding them....infants will close their tiny hands on anyone's fingers...a puppy that is still blind will suckle a finger as though it were a nipple
With your line of reasoning, an infant would know their mother if they were separated at birth and accidentally brushed against them in a crowded subway car 40 years later..
Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that faith is a gift from God, not because we deserve it, have earned it, or are worthy to have it. It is not from ourselves; it is from God. It is not obtained by our power or our free will. Faith is simply given to us by God, along with His grace and mercy, according to His holy plan and purpose, and because of that, He gets all the glory.
the Bible says that the heart is desperately wicked
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
A newborn infant does not know their mother...they recognize who is feeding them....infants will close their tiny hands on anyone's fingers...a puppy that is still blind will suckle a finger as though it were a nipple
With your line of reasoning, an infant would know their mother if they were separated at birth and accidentally brushed against them in a crowded subway car 40 years later..
So will you read into the scriptures what you want them to say or will you read out of the scriptures what God wants you to know?
Babies are innocent and have nothing to be forgiven. Young children believe what they are told by their parents. Will you believe what God has told you?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Babies are innocent and have nothing to be forgiven. Young children believe what they are told by their parents. Will you believe what God has told you?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I don't see anywhere in Mark 9 that children were brought to Jesus and all Jesus is doing in Mark 10 is giving them a blessing not baptizing them. The only baptism we have an example of in the Goospels is the baptism of John and it was not for salvation since Jesus was still alive, it was for repentence. The only faith that it expressed concerning Jesus Christ was that His coming was close at hand. And those baptized by John were obedient to his call to "make ready the way of the Lord" (Matt. 3:3)