Baptismal Regeneration of Infants

[kaylagrl]

I think you got that backwards. Jesus was baptized as a demonstration what to do. Of course he didn't need the cleansing, but he did need to set an example, just like the foot washing

I couldnt edit my post but can you explain how infant baptism is advocated in the Bible. Somewhere we're missing each other on this one.

 

[Chica]

I will have to disagree with you, Ezekiel 34,36, & 37, they are all about redemption through Christ and the spirit.

Salvation means redemption, deliverance, protection. All these prophecies are fulfilled by Christ and through Christ, salvation for Israel come no other way.

Just look at Ezekiel 34:12, he talks about gathering the flock on a day of clouds and darkness; that is the shepherd with the one flock and references the SAME DARKNESS mentioned in MATTHEW 24, right before the shepherd gathers the elect.

36&37, both speak of a pasturing on the mountains of Israel, but it's not the earthly Israel. The new spirit and new heart mentioned, that's the new covenant for the one flock under Christ, and his kingdom in which the flock enters through the gate is not of this Earth.

Paul understood Zion as the heavenly Jerusalem and quoted OT, I would recommend trying to see HOW he new the OT was talking about the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Peter reveals how the prophets who predicted Christ's coming also talked about the salvation and future glories that would also follow

1st Peter 1:10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke*of the grace that was to come to you,*searched intently and with the greatest care,*

11*trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ*in them was pointing when he predicted*the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.*

12*It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you,*when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you*by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven.*Even angels long to look into these things.

Thanks for the correction it is (v.24) that deals with the restoration and it deals with Israel not the Church.

 

[Chica]

I think you got that backwards. Jesus was baptized as a demonstration what to do. Of course he didn't need the cleansing, but he did need to set an example, just like the foot washing

Jesus wasn't baptized as just an example of what to do.

Jesus said all righteousness had to be fulfilled Matt.3:15 By fulfillinf all righteousness our Lord meant the righteousness of obedience to the Mosaic Law. The Levitical law required all priests to be consecrated when they began to be about thirty years of age. It was an act of ceremonial righteousness appropriate to His office as prophet, priest and King, especially the second because His redemptive work is as the Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Chica]

No where in the Bible does it show babies being baptized. You must be at the age of understanding.


Acts 2 --Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How can a baby repent? They cant. Baptism doesn't save you,you trust in Jesus to cover your sins saves you.You must choose to follow Him. A baby cannot do that.

And baptism is not mandatory for recieving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Cornelius and his family recieved the Holy Spirit befroe they were ever baptised Acts 10:44-47

 

[Chica]

TROLL ALERT!!

 

[p_rehbein]

Jesus wasn't baptized as just an example of what to do.

Jesus said all righteousness had to be fulfilled Matt.3:15 By fulfillinf all righteousness our Lord meant the righteousness of obedience to the Mosaic Law. The Levitical law required all priests to be consecrated when they began to be about thirty years of age. It was an act of ceremonial righteousness appropriate to His office as prophet, priest and King, especially the second because His redemptive work is as the Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Agreed. However His water baptism does serve as an example to us. In my opinion only I suppose, water baptism is the first act of obedience a new believer should do. We know that these acts of obedience are a fruit of our salvation, and water baptism does serve as a witness to the world and to the Church that a new believer has given their life to Christ, and become a disciple of Christ.

 

[mwc68]

I couldnt edit my post but can you explain how infant baptism is advocated in the Bible. Somewhere we're missing each other on this one.

Can you show where infant baptism is not permitted?

 

[sltaylor]

Lost me what's this have to do with Baptismal regeneration of infants?

Well honestly you lost me as to what baptismal regeneration of infants has to do with the bible.
Are you saying infants are pledging a good concious towards God and repenting of their sins, no, it's just a parents desire for God's blessing to be on their child's life.

That is a beautiful thing when parents do bring their children, and I hope and know God does bless such an act, but to say it's the baptism of repentance that John taught, that is just impossible.

 

[sltaylor]

Thanks for the correction it is (v.24) that deals with the restoration and it deals with Israel not the Church.

Chica I'm confused, are you saying the shepherd with the sheep being saved on a day of clouds and darkness, who are led out to pasture by the shepherd is not us?

The sheep listen to his voice, they go out and find pasture, he fulfilled Ezekiel 34.

He is the gate for the flock to enter the sheep pen period. Ezekiel 34 is absolutely about the flock entering into the Israel above, that is the ONLY place the shepherd said the gate leads to.

 

[Chica]

Chica I'm confused, are you saying the shepherd with the sheep being saved on a day of clouds and darkness, who are led out to pasture by the shepherd is not us?

The sheep listen to his voice, they go out and find pasture, he fulfilled Ezekiel 34.

He is the gate for the flock to enter the sheep pen period. Ezekiel 34 is absolutely about the flock entering into the Israel above, that is the ONLY place the shepherd said the gate leads to.

I'm talking about Israel being gathered to the land again.

 

[sltaylor]

I'm talking about Israel being gathered to the land again.

Chica I am too, the gathering mentioned in Ezekiel 34:12 happens on a day of could and darkness....the Day of the Lord.

It's the same darkness mentioned in Matthew 24, right before the Angels gather the elect to bring them to the good pasture land.

He is the gate for the flock, those who listen to his voice is his flock, and this is the flock spoken of In Ezekiel.

The gate he is let's the flock into heaven, so when Jesus is talking in Ezekiel about himself feeding these sheep and bringing them into their own pasture land, he was not talking about taking Israel out of the nations to bring them to the earthly Israel. He was talking about taking his flock, out of all the nations of the earth, and bringing them to the Kingdom of heaven, which is still called Israel and Jerusalem.

That's what you have to see, the scriptures were not talking about a earthly home, the promise to Abraham was a land he could live in FORVER, AND that happens at the feast in Heaven for those who are regarded as his seed, the promised land is the home where Jesus went to prepare us a place, forever.

 

[MarcR]

Baptism cleanses Adam's sin. Not a sign of accountability. That is a made up doctrine

If Baptism cleanses Adam's sin, why does everyone continue to sin after being baptized?

 

[MarcR]

Can you show where infant baptism is not permitted?

Can you show any instance of baptism spoken of without being linked to belief or repentance?



I f a baby can demonstrate belief or repentance I would have no problem with infant baptism.

Baptism does NOT wash away ANYTHING! Baptism is a picture and a witness of forgiveness received.

 

[notuptome]

Can you show where infant baptism is not permitted?

Philip known as Philip the evangelist said to the eunuch that if you believe you may receive water baptism. Acts 8:37 How do we demonstrate belief and willingness on the part of an infant to be baptized?

Did you consent to your baptism? I was baptized as an adult after I was saved and I consented to water baptism and gave testimony of my desire to receive water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mwc68]

Can any of you post scripture that says infant baptism is forbidden? You seem to have taken a few scriptures and created a baptism doctrine that has nothing to do with baptism

 

[Chica]

Chica I am too, the gathering mentioned in Ezekiel 34:12 happens on a day of could and darkness....the Day of the Lord.

It's the same darkness mentioned in Matthew 24, right before the Angels gather the elect to bring them to the good pasture land.

He is the gate for the flock, those who listen to his voice is his flock, and this is the flock spoken of In Ezekiel.

The gate he is let's the flock into heaven, so when Jesus is talking in Ezekiel about himself feeding these sheep and bringing them into their own pasture land, he was not talking about taking Israel out of the nations to bring them to the earthly Israel. He was talking about taking his flock, out of all the nations of the earth, and bringing them to the Kingdom of heaven, which is still called Israel and Jerusalem.

That's what you have to see, the scriptures were not talking about a earthly home, the promise to Abraham was a land he could live in FORVER, AND that happens at the feast in Heaven for those who are regarded as his seed, the promised land is the home where Jesus went to prepare us a place, forever.

It's the same darkness mentioned in Matthew 24, right before the Angels gather the elect to bring them to the good pasture land.

You said that once before:

Just look at Ezekiel 34:12, he talks about gathering the flock on a day of clouds and darkness; that is the shepherd with the one flock and references the SAME DARKNESS mentioned in MATTHEW 24, right before the shepherd gathers the elect.

Could very well be Matt.24:31 because Eze.20:34-38 looks forward to Israel's final regathering from its final worldwide Diaspora for Kingdom blessing. Rebels will be purged out during the Great Tribulation and it will determine the Israelites that will be saved and enter the Kingdom to reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years.

 

[Chica]

You said that once before:



Could very well be Matt.24:31 because Eze.20:34-38 looks forward to Israel's final regathering from its final worldwide Diaspora for Kingdom blessing. Rebels will be purged out during the Great Tribulation and it will determine the Israelites that will be saved and enter the Kingdom to reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years.

Also you said:

36&37, both speak of a pasturing on the mountains of Israel, but it's not the earthly Israel. The new spirit and new heart mentioned, that's the new covenant for the one flock under Christ, and his kingdom in which the flock enters through the gate is not of this Earth.

This is totally in your head because Israel will have a new heart in the Jesus's earthly Kingdom where they will reign for a thousand years with Him.

 

[sltaylor]

Also you said:




This is totally in your head because Israel will have a new heart in the Jesus's earthly Kingdom where they will reign for a thousand years with Him.

Behold I will create new heavens and a new Earth...

Revelation 3:12*NIV

12*Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name....to him who overcomes is anyone who overcame by CHRIST

Revelation 21:1*NIV

1*Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Revelation 21:2*NIV

2*I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Like I said, it's not an Earthly home....

 

[sltaylor]

You said that once before:



Could very well be Matt.24:31 because Eze.20:34-38 looks forward to Israel's final regathering from its final worldwide Diaspora for Kingdom blessing. Rebels will be purged out during the Great Tribulation and it will determine the Israelites that will be saved and enter the Kingdom to reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years.

I agree, but you forget, he said he is coming back to take us somewhere first....John 14:3*"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and*take you*to be with me that you also may be where I am."

And

1 Thessalonians 4:17*NIV

17*After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to*meet the Lord*in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[notuptome]

Can any of you post scripture that says infant baptism is forbidden? You seem to have taken a few scriptures and created a baptism doctrine that has nothing to do with baptism

Seriously. I will endeavor to go there only after you demonstrate how Jesus taking children into His arms and blessing them translates into infant baptism.

What you have is RCC tradition regarding original sin and baptism washing away original sin. The tradition is corrupt lacking any biblical foundation. It also condemns children who are innocent and unable to form intent to be victims of Gods eternal wrath upon sin. You make God to be the punisher of innocent children while you over look the sins of adults who choose to sin and offend Gods righteousness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger