Baptismal Regeneration of Infants

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Baptismal Regeneration of infants

  • Yes it is valid

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • No it is not valid

    Votes: 22 71.0%
  • Total voters
    31
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sltaylor

Guest
#201
#201
And I'm not saying scriptures forbid one from bringing their child to be baptized, to be clear. What I am saying is the very act of baptism was always accompanied with repentance.

Jesus blessed the children who were brought to him, I'm sure nothing pleases God more than for a parent to bring their child to Christ to be blessed.

Each man will answer for his own sin, each Christian had to realize they are sinnners. No one is saying don't bring the children to be blessed, its calling it a Baptism of repentance that I don't agree with.
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#202
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
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#202
sltaylor said:
And I'm not saying scriptures forbid one from bringing their child to be baptized, to be clear. What I am saying is the very act of baptism was always accompanied with repentance.

Jesus blessed the children who were brought to him, I'm sure nothing pleases God more than for a parent to bring their child to Christ to be blessed.

Each man will answer for his own sin, each Christian had to realize they are sinnners. No one is saying don't bring the children to be blessed, its calling it a Baptism of repentance that I don't agree with.
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We call it Baptism
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#203
#203
mwc68 said:
We call it Baptism
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I know what you call it, the issue I have is, that Mark, Luke, John the Baptist and Paul called it a baptism of repentance.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#204
#204
SarahM777 said:
What about John the baptist?
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Yes what did John say about himself, even though he lept for joy in the womb: "But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"*

Among those born of women none were greater than John, and he even said he needed to be baptised by Christ.
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#205
#205
You can get a baby wet, but you can't baptize them, because it has to be their decision in order to be baptized. Just like you can not marry two babies- they are not capable of making a lifetime commitment, and don't even understand what you are trying to do. Even with adults if one got married drunk the marriage is considered invalid. As are many other things in which you have to be of sound mind and body. Baptizing a baby does nothing for them spiritually. There is no example in the bible of baptizing babies, children, or teens, they were always adults- both men and women. One is physically still a child if they are still growing taller. And one is mentally a child if they are severely mentally handicapped. Baptizing them too soon just gives them a false sense of salvation as an adult. That's like taking a clean plate out of the cupboard and washing it, later when they are dirty they say I've already been cleaned.
 
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jamie26301

jamie26301

Senior Member
#206
May 14, 2011
1,154
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#206
Kaycie said:
You can get a baby wet, but you can't baptize them, because it has to be their decision in order to be baptized. Just like you can not marry two babies- they are not capable of making a lifetime commitment, and don't even understand what you are trying to do. Even with adults if one got married drunk the marriage is considered invalid. As are many other things in which you have to be of sound mind and body. Baptizing a baby does nothing for them spiritually. There is no example in the bible of baptizing babies, children, or teens, they were always adults- both men and women. One is physically still a child if they are still growing taller. And one is mentally a child if they are severely mentally handicapped.
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I have not heard this perspective on the decision argument of Baptism. But that is a thought-provoking one, for me at least. Especially since the relationship between the Church and Christ is often compared to a marriage.
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#207
Nov 14, 2012
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#207
jamie26301 said:
I have not heard this perspective on the decision argument of Baptism. But that is a thought-provoking one, for me at least. Especially since the relationship between the Church and Christ is often compared to a marriage.
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You are under the assumption that baptism has conditions. This is a man made doctrine that excludes the reason for baptism
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#208
Nov 14, 2012
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#208
I ask again, can any of you post a scripture forbidding infant baptism? A scripture, not a dance around scripture, a scripture that says infant baptism is forbidden?
 
jamie26301

jamie26301

Senior Member
#209
May 14, 2011
1,154
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#209
mwc68 said:
You are under the assumption that baptism has conditions. This is a man made doctrine that excludes the reason for baptism
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No, not really. I sympathize with Infant Baptism, and I think that blessings are there for the child if not salvation. That is my current belief.

I made a post a while back posing questions for those with the decision approach. I think it was answered by only one person, and it imo, didn't really address what I asking.

My only point HERE, is that the Church and Christ are pictured as a marital union oftentimes in Scripture, and a marital union is one of exchange - one side doesn't do everything. It was just a thought, I wasn't really saying "I agree, OMGosh I gotta rewrite my entire theological system" or anything, it was just interesting.
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#210
#210
mwc68 said:
You are under the assumption that baptism has conditions. This is a man made doctrine that excludes the reason for baptism
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Baptism is a burial. You die to your old sinful self. How do you do so without the ability to think and make a decision? Read Romans six, baptism means to join Christ in His death.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#211
#211
mwc68 said:
I ask again, can any of you post a scripture forbidding infant baptism? A scripture, not a dance around scripture, a scripture that says infant baptism is forbidden?
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Well again I will ask, what is baptism? Is it getting dunked in water or does it involve repentance of sins? I think that is what we are debating, what IS baptism? John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, so what is an infants baptism and who is it repenting? Are the parents repenting for the child? For his state of being born or for his future sins? Which is it? Had the child put on the new self created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness? Are the parents pledging the child's good conscience to God for him?

I don't think the issue is whether or not a parent can bring a child to be baptised, the issue I see is whether or not what is being done is Johns baptism of repentance.
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#212
Nov 14, 2012
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#212
sltaylor said:
Well again I will ask, what is baptism? Is it getting dunked in water or does it involve repentance of sins? I think that is what we are debating, what IS baptism? John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, so what is an infants baptism and who is it repenting? Are the parents repenting for the child? For his state of being born or for his future sins? Which is it? Had the child put on the new self created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness? Are the parents pledging the child's good conscience to God for him?

I don't think the issue is whether or not a parent can bring a child to be baptised, the issue I see is whether or not what is being done is Johns baptism of repentance.
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Romans 5:12-21, 1Cor 15:21-22, Psalm 51:5, Ez 36:25-27
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#213
#213
mwc68 said:
Romans 5:12-21, 1Cor 15:21-22, Psalm 51:5, Ez 36:25-27
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Reading from psalms yes we are sinful from birth, yes, that is what we are born with in the flesh.

Regarding the other verses, they require belief IN CHRIST. So what does an infant believe in?
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#214
#214
mwc68 said:
You are under the assumption that baptism has conditions. This is a man made doctrine that excludes the reason for baptism
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The baptism did have just one condition, it was, and I quote, 'repent' and be saved, because the reason for baptism is because we sinned against God and realized it was wrong and wanted, of our own free will to serve God and his Christ
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#215
#215
sltaylor said:
The baptism did have just one condition, it was, and I quote, 'repent' and be saved, because the reason for baptism is because we sinned against God and realized it was wrong and wanted, of our own free will to serve God
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Yes, how can a baby repent?
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#217
Nov 14, 2012
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#217
ADAM'S SIN. The only reason reason for baptism, Psalm 51:5
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#218
#218
mwc68 said:
ADAM'S SIN. The only reason reason for baptism
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As in adam all sin, but in Christ all will be made alive. Doesn't that require belief IN the one who was sent?

The only reason?? Because John was saying it was because of Adam right?

No, it was for each persons own path.

John was saying each one should acknowledge their sin against God and his son, and repent.
 
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sltaylor

Guest
#219
#219
mwc68 said:
ADAM'S SIN. The only reason reason for baptism, Psalm 51:5
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Let me just ask one question, was John's baptism a baptism of repentance, yes or no?

Who repented for you? You or someone else, because I know that I had to repent for my self.
 
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mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#220
Nov 14, 2012
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#220
sltaylor said:
As in adam all sin, but in Christ all will be made alive. Doesn't that require belief IN the one who was sent?

The only reason?? Because John was saying it was because of Adam right?

No, it was for each persons own path.
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No, when Adam sinned, it changed mankind. Even King David alluded to this in Psalm 51:5. God gave the prophecy in Ez 36:25-27 the baptism that cleanses sins. There is no mention that an infant needs belief since that is not what baptism is for. Ya'll have turned this into a man made doctrine excluding the whole meaning of baptism
 
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