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Nov 26, 2011
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The standard God requires is simply this...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:


Love out of a pure heart.

A good conscience.

Faith unfeigned.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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The children of God are manifest to the world that they do not sin (ie. willful sin, choose to do wrong knowing it is wrong).

Anyone with a pure heart, a good conscience and a genuine faith will never be in the service of evil. It is impossible. To serve evil requires an evil heart, a defiled conscience, and unfaithfulness to God.

As children of God we must be wary of being drawn back into the world and the service of the lusts of the flesh whereby our hearts would become corrupted as we fall back into rebellion.

Unfortunately today there are many people who perceive themselves as children of God but they have NEVER truly repented and have thus never wholeheartedly yielded to the grace of God and thus never actually been born again of the Spirit. Instead they have fallen for the deception of a "positional salvation" where everything is purely intellectual and based on dogmatic teachings which have been wrought via the subtle misuse of scripture.
 

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
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I am not quite sure what you mean.

Would you mean we are to utilise our talents to our full potential? In other words, not squander the gifts we have, thus perfection in the context of being responsible.

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If that is the case then I completely agree but the English word "perfect" may be the wrong word to use as generally its definition is much wider.

I think the term "wholehearted obedience" would be a better way to describe such a thing. Through repentance and faith we are wholeheartedly yielding to God and thus naturally we will be doers in accordance with the ability we have been blessed with.

Modern Christianity teaches an "inability doctrine" which necessitates they argue against "wholehearted obedience" because they think that the flesh itself is literally evil and therefore subjugates the ability to obey God. Thus they uphold this notion that one must wait on God to effect a change before one has the ability to obey and even when this occurs the ability is only ever partial which is why they will always defend the notion of ongoing corruption in the heart.
Yes it may also been describe word of wholehearted obedience, when you conscience is clean in a front of God, because you know that you do your best.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
The children of God are manifest to the world that they do not sin (ie. willful sin, choose to do wrong knowing it is wrong).

Anyone with a pure heart, a good conscience and a genuine faith will never be in the service of evil. It is impossible. To serve evil requires an evil heart, a defiled conscience, and unfaithfulness to God.


As children of God we must be wary of being drawn back into the world and the service of the lusts of the flesh whereby our hearts would become corrupted as we fall back into rebellion.

Unfortunately today there are many people who perceive themselves as children of God but they have NEVER truly repented and have thus never wholeheartedly yielded to the grace of God and thus never actually been born again of the Spirit. Instead they have fallen for the deception of a "positional salvation" where everything is purely intellectual and based on dogmatic teachings which have been wrought via the subtle misuse of scripture.
If you would ...define repentance now...please?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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If you would ...define repentance now...please?

metanoia
met-an'-oy-ah
From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.

noieō
noy-eh'-o
From G3563; to exercise the mind (observe), that is, (figuratively) to comprehend, heed: - consider, perceive, think, understand.

meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting accompaniment; “amid” (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

Repentance simply means "a change of mind."

Paul wrote this...

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The word translated as "repentance" being "metanoia."

Thus Paul is saying that a godly sorrow works a change of mind unto salvation.

ie.

Godly Sorrow -----------> Change of Mind -------------> Salvation

The godly sorrow that works the repentance is inclusive of...

1. Sorrow.
2. Carefulness of thought and action.
3. A clearing of wrongdoing.
4. Indignation over sin.
5. Fear of God.
6. Vehement desire to do the right thing.
7. Zeal for righteousness.
8. Revenge over sin (ie. restitution, trying to make right previous wrongs).
9. A clearing.

The word translated as "Clear" is...

hagnos
hag-nos'
From the same as G40; properly clean, that is, (figuratively) innocent, modest, perfect: - chaste, clean, pure.

Thus with "godly sorrow" working a "repentance to salvation" it is obvious that repentance is inclusive of a total change of mind, inclinations and desires. Hence...

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Repentance necessitates a turning to God and a change in conduct (ie. works worthy of repentance).
We see the above definition evident in the examples Jesus used to teach repentance.
First, there is Ninveh.Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jon 3:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Secondly, there is the parable of the Prodigal Son.

Luk 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

In both examples those which repented forsook their rebellion and turned back and began WALKING the right way.


Thus, in summary, repentance is simply the change of mind whereby one forsakes rebellion to God and instead wholeheartedly yields.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Is that how repentance is taught in the majority of Christianity today?

No it isn't.

Repentance in the modern day has been redefined to be a mere "confession of sinfulness." The reason for this is because people are taught the doctrine of Original Sin whereby they are taught that sinning is resultant of their natural birth state. In other words people are not sinners by choice (whereby one can choose not to sin) but rather sinners by necessity.

"Sin you will and sin you must" is the contention of modern theology and under that teaching it is taught that an individual is simply UNABLE to turn from all sin. The excuse being that the flesh body itself is the root of sin.

Thus grace is presented as an OFFSET TO INABILITY and people are compelled to "confess, trust and receive" and the burden of change is shifted to God who is to do everything.

The errors taught today are wrought from a false theological system and in order to expose them one must expose the deceptive framework from which they operate from.
 
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Nov 26, 2011
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Those who promote this error will primarily use Rom 7:14-25 and 1Joh 1:8-10 as their major proof texts for ongoing inward wickedness in salvation.

They basically teach that no-one can be free from sin until they are set apart from their flesh body, hence death becomes their saviour in a manner of speaking.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
>>>>Thus, in summary, repentance is simply the change of mind whereby one forsakes rebellion to God and instead wholeheartedly yields.<<<<

Thank you, It seemed a timely place to include that.

I think there is a great delusion about repentance also... that it just means being sorry you for sin... and thus the sinner keeps saying "sorry", "oops", "my bad" and trudges forward without ever actually repenting. I learned repentance means... TO AGREE WITH GOD... and thus because being in agreement I can hardly walk against it. At this juncture, repentance has a MAGNIFYING effect on my world view as He continues to perfect me in righteousness and unravel from me worldly influences.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
Those who promote this error will primarily use Rom 7:14-25 and 1Joh 1:8-10 as their major proof texts for ongoing inward wickedness in salvation.

They basically teach that no-one can be free from sin until they are set apart from their flesh body, hence death becomes their saviour in a manner of speaking.

I thank you... please continue.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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>>>>Thus, in summary, repentance is simply the change of mind whereby one forsakes rebellion to God and instead wholeheartedly yields.<<<<

Thank you, It seemed a timely place to include that.

I think there is a great delusion about repentance also... that it just means being sorry you for sin... and thus the sinner keeps saying "sorry", "oops", "my bad" and trudges forward without ever actually repenting. I learned repentance means... TO AGREE WITH GOD... and thus because being in agreement I can hardly walk against it. At this juncture, repentance has a MAGNIFYING effect on my world view as He continues to perfect me in righteousness and unravel from me worldly influences.
Exactly right.

Repentance does not produce perfection, it produces a wholehearted yielding which we could call "faithfulness."

Growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ is then what occurs as we learn more and mature. Paul called this the "perfecting of the saints."

The modern false religious system erroneously presents sanctification as "sinning less and less" and thus they argue in favour of ongoing rebellion being permissible. The "grace" that they preach is actually a license for this ongoing rebellion and I don't think it would be a stretch to think that this is the kind of thinking Jude was alluding to when he wrote...

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The grace of God has generally been twisted into a cloak for ongoing rebellion to God and the most common means that this error is presented is via the doctrine of Penal Substitution which teaches that Jesus "paid the price due for sin and thus satisfied the debt owed." Thus all sinning, past, present and future has been PAID FOR and the debt cannot be held due again. Thus people whom are under the influence of "sin you will and sin you must" (Original Sin doctrine) have the perfect CLOAK for the ongoing sinning they engage in.

What a diabolical deception this truly is.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
>>>>What a diabolical deception this truly is.<<<

Yes, I agree and more over... want to be effective in striping away the deception.
So I am wondering if I have missed certain scriptural truths to enable me to wage war against this spirit of deception more effectively?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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Originally Posted by Skinski7

Those who promote this error will primarily use Rom 7:14-25 and 1Joh 1:8-10 as their major proof texts for ongoing inward wickedness in salvation.

They basically teach that no-one can be free from sin until they are set apart from their flesh body, hence death becomes their saviour in a manner of speaking.
I thank you... please continue.
Romans 7:14-25 is simply Paul speaking in the Historical Present (a common grammatical device) give emphasis to an illustration of an individual who upholds the law in the mind but cannot escape the bondage of sin even though he is convicted. The solution to this dilemma is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ by which we are set free from the law of sin and death (ie. we are set free from a state of rebellion to God).

1Joh 1:8-10 is simply John contending for that fact that in order to be cleansed of our rebellion to God we have to first come clean in repentance and then walk in the revealed light. It is the same message Jesus taught and it is the same message taught throughout the Bible.

What the deceivers do it isolate select verses of scripture from their context and then they use them to argue in favour of sin, all the while fluffing it over with an appearance of "trusting God" and "upholding the power and sovereignty of God." Romans chapters 4 and 5, Isa 64:6, John 3:16, Eph 2:8-9 and many other passages are ripped completely from their context and twisted into a defence of sin. It is such a tragedy because so many people fall for it hook, line and sinker, even though the very teachings of Jesus refute all this misuse.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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>>>>What a diabolical deception this truly is.<<<

Yes, I agree and more over... want to be effective in striping away the deception.
So I am wondering if I have missed certain scriptural truths to enable me to wage war against this spirit of deception more effectively?
One of the most important things I learned was to read the books of the Bible as a whole. I no longer jump around doing isolated word studies by seeking our verses with the same word.

It is very important, for example, to read the book of Romans from the beginning to the end in order to grasp the entire context. If we do that and we have an honest heart then the meanings of things quickly becomes apparent.

Of course there are many things we do not understand and I generally choose to stay silent on such issues. This is one reason I won't delve into some issues regarding the pre-existence of Jesus as an intellectual entity or many aspects of prophecy. There are many things I am not certain about and I am thus open to learn. I don't have to know everything either.

The main thing to me is simply the new birth and a walk in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. If our hearts are truly yielded to God then we can only be headed in the right direction.

The basic teachings of Jesus Christ are very simple and even a child can understand them. All it requires is a good and honest heart.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
Thank you. As for myself, I am not good at "quoting" verses but very good at recalling the "principal". Usually the HS will give cause me to recall a "part" of a verse which applies to my issue which I then search for and then find the rhema he desires for that situation. I do continue to do word studies as it helps me to be CLEAR about how God defines such things as "repentance" or "wickedness" or "holiness", but do agree simple word studies does not give an accurate instruction of the intended context of any given article of scripture.