Be holy
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Paul himself made an error of judgement:
Acts:3When we came in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left, we kept sailing to Syria and landed at Tyre; for there the ship was to unload its cargo. 4After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem. 5When our days there were ended, we left and started on our journey, while they all, with wives and children, escorted us until we were out of the city. After kneeling down on the beach and praying, we said farewell to one another.…
He ignored this and we know what happened to him when he got to Jerusalem. His heart was right, for he sought only to encourage the believers there but he got it wrong, very wrong.
Acts:3When we came in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left, we kept sailing to Syria and landed at Tyre; for there the ship was to unload its cargo. 4After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem. 5When our days there were ended, we left and started on our journey, while they all, with wives and children, escorted us until we were out of the city. After kneeling down on the beach and praying, we said farewell to one another.…
He ignored this and we know what happened to him when he got to Jerusalem. His heart was right, for he sought only to encourage the believers there but he got it wrong, very wrong.
The word translated as "perfect" in the following verses...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
... is teleios...
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
The context of Jesus statement in Matthew 5:48 is clearly related to the condition of the heart, not perfection in knowledge hence the use of the word teleios.
There is another word translated as perfect in the Bible and that word is...
teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
That word us used in verses like...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
In that passage Paul is speaking of the resurrection.
Jesus used the same term...
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
There is Jesus claiming not to be perfect in the context of "completeness."
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
... is teleios...
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
The context of Jesus statement in Matthew 5:48 is clearly related to the condition of the heart, not perfection in knowledge hence the use of the word teleios.
There is another word translated as perfect in the Bible and that word is...
teleioō
tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
That word us used in verses like...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
In that passage Paul is speaking of the resurrection.
Jesus used the same term...
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
There is Jesus claiming not to be perfect in the context of "completeness."
The only quote of Mikko that I am aware of where he stated that one must be perfect int he context of never making an error in judgement based on a lack of knowledge is post #85 above. I have looked over Mikko's previous posts and all I see is a call to holiness through the forsaking of fleshly lusts and a yielding to the Spirit.
I suspect that the issue here is one of semantics. English is obviously not Mikko's native tongue and thus we can certainly bounce things around to increase our understanding.
There is no need to gloat.
I have no garbage attitude towards you.
I suspect that the issue here is one of semantics. English is obviously not Mikko's native tongue and thus we can certainly bounce things around to increase our understanding.
There is no need to gloat.
I have no garbage attitude towards you.
I am not quite sure what you mean.
Would you mean we are to utilise our talents to our full potential? In other words, not squander the gifts we have, thus perfection in the context of being responsible.
Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If that is the case then I completely agree but the English word "perfect" may be the wrong word to use as generally its definition is much wider.
I think the term "wholehearted obedience" would be a better way to describe such a thing. Through repentance and faith we are wholeheartedly yielding to God and thus naturally we will be doers in accordance with the ability we have been blessed with.
Modern Christianity teaches an "inability doctrine" which necessitates they argue against "wholehearted obedience" because they think that the flesh itself is literally evil and therefore subjugates the ability to obey God. Thus they uphold this notion that one must wait on God to effect a change before one has the ability to obey and even when this occurs the ability is only ever partial which is why they will always defend the notion of ongoing corruption in the heart.
Would you mean we are to utilise our talents to our full potential? In other words, not squander the gifts we have, thus perfection in the context of being responsible.
Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If that is the case then I completely agree but the English word "perfect" may be the wrong word to use as generally its definition is much wider.
I think the term "wholehearted obedience" would be a better way to describe such a thing. Through repentance and faith we are wholeheartedly yielding to God and thus naturally we will be doers in accordance with the ability we have been blessed with.
Modern Christianity teaches an "inability doctrine" which necessitates they argue against "wholehearted obedience" because they think that the flesh itself is literally evil and therefore subjugates the ability to obey God. Thus they uphold this notion that one must wait on God to effect a change before one has the ability to obey and even when this occurs the ability is only ever partial which is why they will always defend the notion of ongoing corruption in the heart.
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