Be holy
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Though not knowing us, mikko comes here and condemns everyone while proclaiming he is perfect. Those aren't my words, thery're his. That's blasphemous self righteousness any way you slice it.
VioletReigns asked the following direct question: Mikko, can you honestly look at God right now and say, "I am the perfect example of sanctification?" That's a valid question with only one correct answer.
VioletReigns asked the following direct question: Mikko, can you honestly look at God right now and say, "I am the perfect example of sanctification?" That's a valid question with only one correct answer.
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Now Violet, you better quit denying Scripture! You really shouldn't go around espousing God's grace to folks who weep at the foot of the Cross. We don't want folks experiencing the love of God, the grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and the power and protection of the Holy Spirit. Do you really want people to rejoice in their redemption, sanctification and eternal salvation?
Seriously, Violet. Don't you do that!
Seriously, Violet. Don't you do that!
V
Now Violet, you better quit denying Scripture! You really shouldn't go around espousing God's grace to folks who weep at the foot of the Cross. We don't want folks experiencing the love of God, the grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and the power and protection of the Holy Spirit. Do you really want people to rejoice in their redemption, sanctification and eternal salvation?
Seriously, Violet. Don't you do that!
Seriously, Violet. Don't you do that!
I'll thank you for holding the door open for me while I exit. heehee! ziiiiiipppppppppppp! ......and I'm gone. *poof*If someone yells "THIEF" when you are in town do you run and hide?
Likewise if you are offended at the petition of...
...what would the reason be?
When I read the OP I think it is absolutely fantastic to see an individual contending for righteousness. Why don't you think contending for holiness and purity is a good thing?
Furthermore the Mikko also wrote...
Are those the things you think are...
Or was it this statement which offended you...
Originally Posted by Willie-T
It's easier than that (since we can't do that, anyway.) We are made "Holy" through belief in, involvement with, and relationship with Jesus.
You are lost, because you do not even believe that you can come holy.
We must be holy, if we wish to truly know God, because he is holy, but if you are not, then you do not know even what kind is holy, then how can you know God?
Willie T claimed that "we can't do that anyway" as a response to "to be holy, though, we have to obey the Lord's commandments." To which Mikko responded that Willie-T is lost because he believes we cannot obey the commandments of Jesus. Instead Willie-T believes we are holy simply by "believing in Jesus, being involved, having a relationship" (ie. belief/involvement, relationship whilst being disobedient).
In your mind it is self righteousness and blasphemous to contend that we have the ability to obey the commandments of Jesus?
Your religion really leaves you with that conclusion and you do not see a problem with it?
If those statements were not what you perceived as "self righteousness and blasphemous" then what exactly was "self righteousness and blasphemous" in the words of Mikko? I would like to know.
That question was written in response too...
Originally Posted by MikkoAinasoja
All the man of God have been holy even in the Bible, then don't you think that we should be also, if we are not just like old prophet's but even more, as a servant of the Lord Yeshua, God's only son?
Holiness is a part of true saints nature, and knowledge of God, but the world is against all holy, and spreading it own unholy values specific in a way of media.
So here is Mikko contending that the people of God are holy and that due to this ought we not be holy also? Mikko claims that holiness is part of the true saints nature.
Did Mikko say anything about being "the perfect example of sanctification"? NO HE DID NOT.
The phrase "perfect example of sanctification" is just another way to say "sinless perfection" and thus allude to a STRAWMAN instead of directly deal with what Mikko is contending for, which is simply obedience to God from the heart, a forsaking of all known evil, our conduct done in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. he is not contending for NEVER MAKING A MISTAKE or NEVER MAKING A WRONG DECISION or NEVER DOING A WRONG ACTION UNINTENTIONALLY, he is contending simply for OBEDIENCE FROM THE HEART IN ALL THINGS. Do you have an issue with obedience from the heart in all things? Do you have an issue with wholehearted obedience to God?
Will Violet or you will deal with such a subject. By all appearances you both simply mischaracterise the words of Mikko and imply he is saying something other than what he is saying.
Likewise if you are offended at the petition of...
...what would the reason be?
When I read the OP I think it is absolutely fantastic to see an individual contending for righteousness. Why don't you think contending for holiness and purity is a good thing?
Furthermore the Mikko also wrote...
Are those the things you think are...
Or was it this statement which offended you...
It's easier than that (since we can't do that, anyway.) We are made "Holy" through belief in, involvement with, and relationship with Jesus.
We must be holy, if we wish to truly know God, because he is holy, but if you are not, then you do not know even what kind is holy, then how can you know God?
In your mind it is self righteousness and blasphemous to contend that we have the ability to obey the commandments of Jesus?
Your religion really leaves you with that conclusion and you do not see a problem with it?
If those statements were not what you perceived as "self righteousness and blasphemous" then what exactly was "self righteousness and blasphemous" in the words of Mikko? I would like to know.
That question was written in response too...
All the man of God have been holy even in the Bible, then don't you think that we should be also, if we are not just like old prophet's but even more, as a servant of the Lord Yeshua, God's only son?
Holiness is a part of true saints nature, and knowledge of God, but the world is against all holy, and spreading it own unholy values specific in a way of media.
Did Mikko say anything about being "the perfect example of sanctification"? NO HE DID NOT.
The phrase "perfect example of sanctification" is just another way to say "sinless perfection" and thus allude to a STRAWMAN instead of directly deal with what Mikko is contending for, which is simply obedience to God from the heart, a forsaking of all known evil, our conduct done in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. he is not contending for NEVER MAKING A MISTAKE or NEVER MAKING A WRONG DECISION or NEVER DOING A WRONG ACTION UNINTENTIONALLY, he is contending simply for OBEDIENCE FROM THE HEART IN ALL THINGS. Do you have an issue with obedience from the heart in all things? Do you have an issue with wholehearted obedience to God?
Will Violet or you will deal with such a subject. By all appearances you both simply mischaracterise the words of Mikko and imply he is saying something other than what he is saying.
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Whoever said anything about 100% perfection in everything?
Did Mikko make a post about 100% perfection?
No. He contended for holiness.
The perfection that God expects is MORAL PERFECTION and all that simply means is WHOLEHEARTED FAITHFULNESS TO GOD.
A pure heart (which you claimed is achievable) and holy conduct are two sides of the same coin. If one has a pure heart they cannot be engaged in known evil, they cannot be serving sin, they cannot be in disobedience to God because PURE IS PURE. We are to love one another with a pure heart fervently.
Has your heart been purified Utah? Let us see if you can directly answer that question.
The Bible teaches that the saints of God have had their hearts purified by faith and that we have purified our souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit (ie. abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ).
Can you testify of such a thing in your life? If you cannot then I can understand why you object to Mikko's posts.
Did Mikko make a post about 100% perfection?
No. He contended for holiness.
The perfection that God expects is MORAL PERFECTION and all that simply means is WHOLEHEARTED FAITHFULNESS TO GOD.
A pure heart (which you claimed is achievable) and holy conduct are two sides of the same coin. If one has a pure heart they cannot be engaged in known evil, they cannot be serving sin, they cannot be in disobedience to God because PURE IS PURE. We are to love one another with a pure heart fervently.
Has your heart been purified Utah? Let us see if you can directly answer that question.
The Bible teaches that the saints of God have had their hearts purified by faith and that we have purified our souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit (ie. abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ).
Can you testify of such a thing in your life? If you cannot then I can understand why you object to Mikko's posts.
Yes, we are called to be holy. Holy does not equate perfection.
If someone said, "Friends, let us challenge one another to be holy, and I include myself in that challenge knowing I too need to be holy," then that is someone to whom we should listen.
However, when folks like mikko condemn everyone for not being perfect like he is, well, those are precious seconds of life we spend reading that blasphemous garbage we'll never get back.
If someone said, "Friends, let us challenge one another to be holy, and I include myself in that challenge knowing I too need to be holy," then that is someone to whom we should listen.
However, when folks like mikko condemn everyone for not being perfect like he is, well, those are precious seconds of life we spend reading that blasphemous garbage we'll never get back.
Jesus who was the very founder of Christianity said...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That statement was made in the context of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus contended against a mere form of outward righteousness premised upon some kind of law keeping. Jesus taught that sin was commissioned in the heart and thus it was the PURE IN HEART who would see God, not those whose hearts are full of iniquity.
Be ye therefore perfect simply means be MORALLY PERFECT or in other words LOVE GOD and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR. We are able to do this through abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ, through the inward reception of the implanted word, the word of Jesus which cleanses us of all unrighteousness. Thus we abide in LIFE instead of serving unrighteousness unto death.
None of this is hard to understand.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
That statement was made in the context of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus contended against a mere form of outward righteousness premised upon some kind of law keeping. Jesus taught that sin was commissioned in the heart and thus it was the PURE IN HEART who would see God, not those whose hearts are full of iniquity.
Be ye therefore perfect simply means be MORALLY PERFECT or in other words LOVE GOD and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR. We are able to do this through abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ, through the inward reception of the implanted word, the word of Jesus which cleanses us of all unrighteousness. Thus we abide in LIFE instead of serving unrighteousness unto death.
None of this is hard to understand.
Look it up, Ski. The dude is on record stating he is perfect. If you're too busy or don't know how to look up his posts, then ask him for crying out loud.
Remember this, Ski, though I have a serious attitude problem against Pharisees who shut out the Kingdom of Heaven against others, an attitude that puts me in jeopardy of being banned here at any given moment, I do not lie, and I definitely do not bear false witness. Period!
Remember this, Ski, though I have a serious attitude problem against Pharisees who shut out the Kingdom of Heaven against others, an attitude that puts me in jeopardy of being banned here at any given moment, I do not lie, and I definitely do not bear false witness. Period!
You cannot quote him saying what I asked because I doubt he ever said such a thing. I have read his posts and I see him claiming nothing of the sort. The basis of your claim appears to only be your words with nothing behind them.
It appears that you cannot meet the challenge which was...
Now as regards to the perfection that is expected...
Did you know that Paul is on record claiming to be perfect in the context of morality?
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
The Greek word used in that verse is the same word that Jesus used in...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
The Pharisees shut men from the kingdom via the presentation of a false religious message. As far as I can tell, Mikko is contending for HEAR AND DO and REPENTANCE AND FAITH which is the correct Biblical message.
Contending for righteousness, purity and holiness is not shutting people out of the kingdom, in fact that is the means to enter into it. We have to repent of our rebellion to God and yield wholeheartedly to the grace of God, only through doing that do we find a real reconciliation with God.
It appears that you cannot meet the challenge which was...
Now as regards to the perfection that is expected...
Did you know that Paul is on record claiming to be perfect in the context of morality?
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
The Greek word used in that verse is the same word that Jesus used in...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
The Pharisees shut men from the kingdom via the presentation of a false religious message. As far as I can tell, Mikko is contending for HEAR AND DO and REPENTANCE AND FAITH which is the correct Biblical message.
Contending for righteousness, purity and holiness is not shutting people out of the kingdom, in fact that is the means to enter into it. We have to repent of our rebellion to God and yield wholeheartedly to the grace of God, only through doing that do we find a real reconciliation with God.
B
Utah,
I perceive your position but I DO think you are reading more into What Ski is trying to show by his written words via the scriptures.
So either, this needs to be given both your efforts to reason together and sort out the "missing" communication point or agree to disengage entirerly... I think whoever is in error of understanding the idea being conveyed could be guilty of calling "FOOL" to their own harm. So either put full effort into communicating to understand the words exactly what each is saying or "be as sons of thunder and depart one from another entirely".
I perceive your position but I DO think you are reading more into What Ski is trying to show by his written words via the scriptures.
So either, this needs to be given both your efforts to reason together and sort out the "missing" communication point or agree to disengage entirerly... I think whoever is in error of understanding the idea being conveyed could be guilty of calling "FOOL" to their own harm. So either put full effort into communicating to understand the words exactly what each is saying or "be as sons of thunder and depart one from another entirely".