BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Mat 22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

You have to understand that this is addressed to first century Israel -"all things are ready: come unto the marriage" - you can't have something ready and also have the invites being sent out for 1900 years and counting otherwise you end up destroying the intent of the motif/parable.

The invitations were sent out at Pentecost and the destruction of the city was 66-70 AD. The is the same timing of the harvest/wrath to come as per John the baptists message.

"So the wedding will take place sometime after the city was burned."

Yes, but why would it be 1900 years past the burning of the city?

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

We see from the above that after the judgement and burning of the whore aka 1st century Israel and it's city that the wedding takes place.

"At this present time, people are still entering into the kingdom, still coming to Christ, so the kingdom is not yet complete."

That's an unwarranted assumption, for sure people are still entering the kingdom but not as "wedding" guests. There is no such thing as a "kingdom completion"

(Isa 9:7 KJV) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

All of Jesus' parable concerning the kingdom "harvest/wedding/vineyard" gives us a specific time period/location:

Mark 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

Mark 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.

Mark 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

Mark 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

All these motifs are one and can't be projected 1900 years into the future.

popeye · Mar 21, 2017

abcdef said:

1st call ; vs 1 ".....[FONT=&quot]and went forth to meet the bridegroom."

[/FONT]2nd call vs 6 [FONT=&quot]And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

[/FONT]Speaks of imminent return.

We are in the "pause,or delay" right now.

No,I can see a command and obey it without understanding anything about it.

It was us,the pretribs that initiated the wedding dynamic into the debate.

If you are interested in perspective,why do you not incorporate all that is available on the wedding concept?????

For example,the last supper,where the bride/groom ceremony matches the setting and discussion of Jesus and the disciples.

popeye · Mar 21, 2017

abcdef said:

There is no wedding after the GT.

It takes place in heaven.
The last supper gives us 2 clues,if not more,as does rev 19,where the bride has become the wife.

Note how you saw the need to incorporate the Father into the picture at the advent of the new Jerusalem.

That places your template way too late. Jesus said "I go and prepare a place"

The wedding is without doubt,in heaven,during the GT.

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

popeye said:

Ok, I see what you mean.

And thank you for doing that.

If I have missed something, or you can help me, lay it on me brother Popeye!

Matt 26:29, when do we drink it new with Jesus?

In His Father's kingdom.

When is the kingdom delivered up to the Father?

After death is destroyed 1 Cor 15:23-28, Rev 20:14-15, Rev 21:2

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

popeye said:

The trib is over.

It ended when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.

The wedding has yet to take place.

Yes, once everyone is there, after this world ends.

Rev 19 is only a prophecy of the wedding, as is the prophecy of the end of the Roman Empire (Seabeast).

The wedding does not take place until Rev 21.

I just gave the scripture.

Paul is the one who wrote 1 Cor 15:23-28

Yes, and 1900 years later there is still a place prepared for us.

So the 1900 year time line is still ticking.

Ok , What covenant will the souls who live on through the trib (your time line) and through the mill be under,

If the covenant of Jesus blood ended at the rapture?

Will there be a new covenant? another after the kingdom is taken? No one can be saved?

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

Locutus said:

I agree, so far.

Not really, the guests coming from the highways are the gentiles, we are still entering the kingdom as we come to Jesus.

So that all the gentiles even today, could enter the kingdom?

The is only a prophecy of the wedding, the wedding takes place in Rev 21, after death is destroyed.

Just as the prophecy of the defeat of the Roman Empire beast by God's Word is told, which happened in 476 ad.

First, the harlot of Rev 17 is the religion of Rome.

See in Rev 18, that the woman is the city that burns, the city of 7 hills, Rome.

This is a prophecy of the fall of the sea beast the Roman Empire.

--------

So when Jerusalem is destroyed, it's people flee, are killed, and are taken captive into all nations, that is the wedding?

I suppose that the honeymoon was the next 1900 years of murder and destruction by the Roman beast.

So who exactly are the wedding guests that made the wedding after the city was destroyed?

Gentiles between Pentecost and the dest? Or after? How long after?
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The wedding between Jesus and His kingdom takes place after we all die and are in heaven with the Father.

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1 Cor 15:23-24, the kingdom is delivered up to the Father after death is destroyed.

The kingdom is complete then.

The wedding cannot take place before then.

When you die, what happens then?

Many parables are about or include a picture of the dest of Jeru,

But they are not all exclusively about 70 ad and end there.

Many reach beyond that time.

This is back to the same basic issue that we have.

Since you refuse to tell me exactly what you believe,

I guess I'll have to guess.

All the OT prophecies were not fulfilled by 70 ad.

All the NT prophecies were not fulfilled by 70 ad.

All of the Revelation was not fulfilled by 70 ad.

This material universe and planet are not eternal.

There is a resurrection of the dead and a judgement to come.

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

The basic problem here AB is that you are thinking "historicist" misidentifying the whore and the great city as Rome which is outdated early protestant thinking, which was understandable due to the "tiff" with Rome.

John identifies the great city a the onset as Jerusalem in Rev 11:8

(Rev 11:8 KJV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

You agreed that the destruction of Jerusalem was in the 66-70 AD war, but then you think there is another "great city" that also is destroyed.

You won't find another city other than Jerusalem mentioned in the gospels.

John's revelation is a revelatory expansion of the judgement on Jerusalem spoken of by Jesus as the time was near for Jesus statements to come to pass.

"Not really, the guests coming from the highways are the gentiles, we are still entering the kingdom as we come to Jesus."

Of course people are still coming into the kingdom:

Not only Gentiles of that time period but the "elect" of the 12 tribes:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

"elect" Israel was being called to the wedding during the 1st century.

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

If James is writing to the 12 tribes in the 1st century how can you posit the "hundred and forty and four thousand" 1900 years into the future?

Are there two "sets" of "hundred and forty and four thousand"?

Not only that, James calls them the "first fruits":

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

And so does John:

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Gentiles were also included in the "firstfruits"

1 Cor 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

"So that all the gentiles even today, could enter the kingdom?"

Both Gentiles and "Jews" can still enter the kingdom - the kingdom did not "close" after 70 AD.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

"The is only a prophecy of the wedding, the wedding takes place in Rev 21, after death is destroyed."

It says has come, not it's coming, you are making it a prophecy of a prophecy.

"So when Jerusalem is destroyed, it's people flee, are killed, and are taken captive into all nations, that is the wedding?"

I'm assuming you mean this:

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Those that fell and were taken captive are the ones who rejected the "wedding" invitation prior to 66-70 AD - no cake or confetti for those folks...

There is a mistaken belief that the physical "Jews" are still God's people, this could not be further from the truth.

Isa 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

"I suppose that the honeymoon was the next 1900 years of murder and destruction by the Roman beast."

There is no honeymoon, because there was no wedding - these are figures/symbols that are spiritually discerned.

No wedding cake for you...

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

"

Are you saying everything in the whole Bible was fulfilled by 70 ad?"

No, Jesus is saying that, I'm just talking his word for it.

(Luke 21:22 KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled.

There are no qualifiers or limiters on all, he's not saying some of all, part of all, or most all is he?

If I say to you I'm going to spend all of my money tomorrow but only spend what's in my chequing account and don't touch what I have in the savings account it would not be all and I would have mislead you.

Mat 13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood ALL these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

The above is an example where all is limited to the context of what Jesus was explaining:

Mat 13:36 .......Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

Mat 13:40 (Young's) As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this age.

So unless there are some kind of qualifiers, limiters etc. the only honest thing to do accept Jesus at his word even if it conflicts with man made "theology/doctrine" and try and adjust what we understand to bring other scriptures in line with it.

The truth is often obscured in some bible translations, most likely because the translators have a doctrinal bias:

(Luke 21:36 KJV) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luk 21:36 (Young's) watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.'

(Mat 16:27 KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mat 16:27 (Young's) 'For, the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father, with his messengers, and then he will reward each, according to his work.

It's quite evident which is a "deceptive" rendition of the Greek.

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

"The trib is over.

It ended when Israel was restored to Jerusalem."

Not so quick there - the great tribulation has nothing to do with "Israel was restored to Jerusalem".

Mat 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: [b}but for the elect's sake[/b] those days shall be shortened.

The Great tribulation started in the war of 66 AD

If the war had not come to an end, "those days shortened" then even the elect would have physically perished even after they had fled Jerusalem. It would have consumed all of the surrounding countries.

The elect were already alive in the 1st century, see Romans 11:7.

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

Locutus said:

The "tiff" with Rome only lasted 2000 years, killed millions, and cost many their eternal souls.

I agree that the city that is mentioned in Rev 11, is Jerusalem.

But there are 2 cities, a true city Jerusalem, and a harlot city Rome, the beast city.

Yes, the city of the beast Rome.

Well, there are lot's of other cities mentioned in the gospels.

Jesus's teachings and prophecies in the Bible center on Jerusalem.

But gentile nations and cities are spoken about also, Babylon, and as in this case, the 4th beast Rome.

Revelation was written After the dest of Jerusalem.

It applies to the time between 70 ad and the resurrection, mostly.

---

The reason we find Rome symbolized or absent is because it would be death to write anything against Rome.

The revelation does speak of the dest of Jerusalem at the 6th seal.

Then the 7 trumpets tell what happens after the destruction until the resurrection at the 7th trumpet.
.

When this planet ends, then people will stop entering the kingdom.

The kingdom will be complete and handed up to the Father 1 Cor 15:23-28.

Agree

The 144000 were resurrected with Jesus when He ascended to the Father.

They are seen with Jesus at the time of the vision of heaven that John was given.

They are, with Jesus, the first fruits of the resurrection, they are Israel from the OT,

No

There is the first fruits of the resurrection, Jesus and the 144000, etc.,

And the first fruits of the kingdom, which is different.

The day of Pentecost onward was the first fruits of the kingdom.

The firstfruits of the resurrection were already in heaven on that day.

Firstfruits of the resurrection.

First fruits of the kingdom.

Again, the wedding cannot take place until after death is destroyed and the kingdom is delivered up to the Father, 1 Cor 15:23-28.

This is shown in Rev 20 and 21

So the wedding was Christians fleeing for their lives with their wives and children, being caught and killed, enslaved, and beaten, torn apart by wild beasts, starved, and mutilated?

(don't invite me to your wedding)

Rom 11:28, "....; but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sake,"

V29, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

Rom 11:23, "...: for God is able to graff them in again."

Hang on, what? No wedding?

First you say that the wedding takes place after the dest of Jeru., or something like that,

Then you say that there is no wedding?

Well just explain how the dest of Jeru and the time after that is a wedding.

Just who exactly is the bride?

ONLY the people who escaped from Jerusalem?

---

We presently in the kingdom, don't go to the wedding?

Jesus is not our bridegroom?

Eph 5:31, "..., and they two shall be one flesh."

V 32, "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

We are part of the church, right?

The wedding is a real event that takes place in heaven after the kingdom is delivered up to the Father,

Where we drink it new, with Jesus in His Father's kingdom Matt 26:29.

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

The wedding is a metaphor/figure not literal.

But hey if you want a wedding I'm sure you'll look spiffy in a dress....

Notice how the like unto works:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Maybe you'd look good as the Pillsbury dough boy...

Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

Locutus said:

First, there was no NT at the time that this was spoken, so it can't include that.

Second, there are several OT scriptures that were not fulfilled by 70 ad.

----

Gen 1 :28, "...fill the earth and subdue it." (NIV)

The earth was not filled by 70 ad.

The earth was not subdued by 70 ad.

----

Gen 3:16, "...he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

Indicates a time of the COMPLETE destruction of Satan, a death blow (at the cross), with the eventual "death", spiritual death, which has not come yet.

----

Gen 8:22, "As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease." (NIV)

"As long as the earth endures,"...... There will be a time when the earth will not endure and the things described will cease.

They did not cease by 70 ad., they continue to this day.

----

Gen 9:1, "fill the earth"....the earth was not filled by 70 ad.

All things concerning the dest of Jeru and the beginning of the times of the gentiles.

All things pertaining to the dest of Jerusalem.

End of the temple age 70 ad.

..................

Locutus · Mar 21, 2017

Number of issues in your posts - firstly you just disputed and contradicted Jesus when he said all that is written would be fulfilled.

Secondly - the "new testament" prophecies are all based on the the old testament scriptures:

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Gen 1 :28, "...fill the earth and subdue it." (NIV)

The earth was not filled by 70 ad.

The earth was not subdued by 70 ad.

Gen 8:22, "As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease." (NIV)

These are not prophecies.

There is no end of the world therefore "seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease." is a statement to that fact:

Ecc 1:4

Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

abcdef · Mar 21, 2017

Locutus said:

The wedding is a metaphor/figure not literal.

But hey if you want a wedding I'm sure you'll look spiffy in a dress....

Notice how the like unto works:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Maybe you'd look good as the Pillsbury dough boy...

Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

I think that I'm probably like the guy with the shovel,

I have made a hobby of rock collecting.

popeye · Mar 22, 2017

abcdef said:

There are gatherings in rev 14 DURING THE GT.

The whitehorseman is the AC.

So,you need a worldwide mark,and everyone refusing it beheaded sometime in your timeline.

Your deal does not remotely work sir.

popeye · Mar 22, 2017

Locutus said:

The wedding is a metaphor/figure not literal.

But hey if you want a wedding I'm sure you'll look spiffy in a dress....

Notice how the like unto works:

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Maybe you'd look good as the Pillsbury dough boy...

Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Mocking Jesus and his bride.

Sad

abcdef · Mar 22, 2017

.
Brother Popeye,

popeye said:

Yes, this is true.

The first reaping of souls, Rev 14:14-16, is the first resurrection, where Jesus resurrected.

Jesus is on the throne, v 14, the souls are rising to Him.

Since this harvest is not grapes, it may be assumed that it is some other crop harvest, wheat maybe.

--

The second reaping is the wine press, Rev 14:17-20.

Jesus, fruit of the vine? Natural branches cut off?

Who are the people, that are the fruit of the vine?

Israel, the natural branches. (the wild branches are grafted in)

So we see the natural branches being trampled by Jesus (Rev 19:15), after the 1st resurrection.

How long does Jesus trample the natural branches?

As long as they are outside of, without the city v 20, of Jerusalem.

When Israel is restored to Jerusalem, then they are not where the wine press is being trodden, that would be the gentile nations, without the city.

This time is also known as the times of the gentiles Lk 21 :24.

Yes, I agree.

The Antichrist can only be one of the horns of the 4th beast/iron legs, which is Rome.

That would be Caesar.

The 7 seals show the time between the rejection of the Pentecost Kingdom by Israel, and the destruction of Jerusalem, which is the 6th/7th seal, 70 ad.

The 4 horsemen are the 4 spirits of the earth against the natural branches.

The spirits are led by Caesar and try to wipe out Israel.

The world, is the world of Israel, and Jerusalem is the center of the world.

Everything else, everywhere else, is the land of the gentiles, the wild, the wilderness, a place with beasts.

The world is Jerusalem, and Israel the people.

When the NT and Rev were written, the whole world of Israel, the whole nation of Israel, and Jerusalem, were being dominated by the 4th beast/iron legs.

And the mark was the mark of Caesar worship, the 4th beast, the mark of the beast, 4th beast/iron legs, Caesar.

It all began when Rome invaded and took control of Jerusalem.

John the Baptist was beheaded and did not take the mark of Rome.

His words rule the kingdom now, "Behold the Lamb of God".

....................

Locutus · Mar 22, 2017

Wrong to the finach....it's enough to make yer eye pop....

abcdef · Mar 22, 2017

Locutus said:

No, because that is only referring to the scriptures regarding the dest of Jeru, not every prophecy of the OT.

Also it may be thought of like this, This must happen in order to complete all prophecy,

That is, the dest of Jeru. cannot be left out of events that happen,

because it is part of all prophecy and must happen in order that all prophecy will be fulfilled.

I agree

That does not show that they are all fulfilled by 70 ad.

I agree, the dest of Jeru.

.

If these are not fulfilled by 70 ad then all prophecies of the OT were not fulfilled by 70 ad.

Gen 8:22, "As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, will never cease." (NIV)

Click to expand...

They speak of a time beyond 70 ad.

Maybe you forgot that the first part of that verse said, "while the earth remains".

You want it to say just the opposite, by leaving part of the verse "deleted."

The new earth, not this material heaven and earth. Heb 11:10.

Locutus · Mar 22, 2017

You have to show how Jesus' statement about ALL prophecy being fulfilled is limited to just the destruction of Jerusalem.

There is nothing in Jesus statement that gives a limitation of fulfillment of ALL. But if you want to put words in Jesus' mouth then that is your problem not mine.

"not every prophecy of the OT" - I see you tried to sneak in again supposed "prophetic" verses from Genesis to attempt to undermine Jesus' statement that ALL would be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem - that's just a sign of desperation.

I guess you will try and claim that Peter's statement of the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy was not fulfilled either.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2:19 And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I don't see where "new earth" is mentioned in eccl.

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