Being born of water and Spirit

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Runningman

Banned
#21
Mar 4, 2020
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#21
SomeDisciple said:
How do you deal with Paul's question in 1Cor15:32. Because if there was salvation apart from resurrection, he wouldn't be able to ask the question like this... because it would have a legitimate answer. But it doesn't have a legitimate answer: it's a rhetorical question asked to make a point. There would be no reason to put himself in danger at all if there wasn't a resurrection.
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Good question. The dead do rise and if he dies fighting then he’ll come back in the resurrection. That’s why he began that new train of thought by posing a rhetorical question that the answer of is they water baptism is needed to be resurrected.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#22
Mar 4, 2020
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#22
Magenta said:
When people say things that are wrong, false, or misleading, don't you think it should be pointed out? Paul spent a lot of time correcting error and misunderstandings, and says we should be imitators of him, even as he is an imitator of Christ. Some go on and on about how water baptism brings the remission of sins, which would mean if you were not water baptized, you would not be saved, because you would still be in your sins, whereas Scripture attests to the fact that without shedding of blood is no remission/forgiveness. And Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, lived a sinless life, and went to the cross as the spotless Lamb of God, on our behalf, that all who believe on Him would be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after. So saying you receive remission of sins for something else contradicts a plethora of Scriptures that state it is by grace through faith that we are saved.
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Just to be clear in case this wasn’t evident from my OP, I’m just saying water baptism is necessary to be resurrected, not have sins forgiven.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#23
Mar 4, 2020
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#23
JohnDB said:
I'm thinking that it's a form of trolling.
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That’s actually pretty offensive. This thread is original content that you won’t find anywhere else on the Internet and you are accusing me of trying to cause trouble? That’s absurd and off topic. If you can’t rebuttal the OP then your provocative talkings points about how this is a troll thread are useless.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#24
Mar 4, 2020
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#24
JohnDB said:
Not really...you just learned ways to re-inforce your preconceived notions.

Actually listening and learning have left you long ago. Nobody can ever teach you anything.
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I’m a new Christian. Many things I have learned about the Bible have occurred within the past 3 years. I am always willing to change what I believe to be more accurate. You really know nothing about me. You just want to judge me and argue.

I take it you’re a mature Christian? What kind of example are you setting here today?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#25
Jul 3, 2015
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#25
Runningman said:
That’s correct. Jesus got water baptized to fulfill all righteousness because water baptism is righteous.
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Jesus got water baptized to fulfill all righteousness because His water baptism fulfilled all righteousness.

Your original claim is in error. And either His baptism fulfilled all righteousness, or it did not.

I say it did :)
 
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Runningman

Banned
#26
Mar 4, 2020
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#26
Magenta said:
Jesus got water baptized to fulfill all righteousness because His water baptism fulfilled all righteousness.

Your original claim is in error. And either His baptism fulfilled all righteousness, or it did not.

I say it did :)
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Ah I see we have different perspectives on this particular point. If I understand you correctly, you believe His water baptism was fulfilling all righteousness, but that water baptism for other people is not fulfilling all righteousness.

My perspective is that He was saying that water baptism is a necessary step to fulfill all possible righteous things, but Jesus had more righteous things yet to do such as complete His sacrifice on the cross. Jesus fulfilled all righteousness by being a perfectly sinless person and 100% obedient to His Father up to and including His own death. Water baptism alone isn’t the epitome of righteousness, but it’s one of the righteous things.
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#27
Aug 10, 2019
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mywebsite.us
#27
Runningman said:
Matthew 3:15. Immediately before His water baptism He referred to getting water baptized by John as fulfilling all righteousness.
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Runningman said:
That’s correct. Jesus got water baptized to fulfill all righteousness because water baptism is righteous.
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Runningman said:
My perspective is that He was saying that water baptism is a necessary step to fulfill all possible righteous things, ...
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That is not what it is saying.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#31
Jan 16, 2021
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#31
Runningman said:
I’m a new Christian. Many things I have learned about the Bible have occurred within the past 3 years. I am always willing to change what I believe to be more accurate. You really know nothing about me. You just want to judge me and argue.

I take it you’re a mature Christian? What kind of example are you setting here today?
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The right kind.
I'm not arguing with you...in fact I'm admonishing people to not argue or engage in a fruitless relationship.

You state an opinion that is full of error and declare it as fact and then bend the meaning of unsupporting scriptures to support your opinion (which very very few even remotely agree) and then proceed to teach the majority of the best minds how wrong they are.

And yet I'm the "bad guy"?

You are a contentious person. The very personification of the term. What else am I supposed to do?
 
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Runningman

Banned
#32
Mar 4, 2020
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#32
JohnDB said:
The right kind.
I'm not arguing with you...in fact I'm admonishing people to not argue or engage in a fruitless relationship.

You state an opinion that is full of error and declare it as fact and then bend the meaning of unsupporting scriptures to support your opinion (which very very few even remotely agree) and then proceed to teach the majority of the best minds how wrong they are.

And yet I'm the "bad guy"?

You are a contentious person. The very personification of the term. What else am I supposed to do?
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Your mind isn’t among the best if you accuse me of trolling and being unteachable. I lay down scripture and unpack them using sound reasoning. You are certainly the problem here not me. You’re just complaining and have not provided any insight into why what I have shown you is wrong.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#33
Jan 16, 2021
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#33
Runningman said:
Your mind isn’t among the best if you accuse me of trolling and being unteachable. I lay down scripture and unpack them using sound reasoning. You are certainly the problem here not me. You’re just complaining and have not provided any insight into why what I have shown you is wrong.
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I did and you absolutely blew it off.

And you completely ignored the theme of the majority of the lessons Jesus taught.

That's one, two, three strikes.
 
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Runningman

Banned
#35
Mar 4, 2020
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#35
JohnDB said:
I did and you absolutely blew it off.

And you completely ignored the theme of the majority of the lessons Jesus taught.

That's one, two, three strikes.
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You explained nothing other than you think I’m a troll and am unteachable. You’re assigning strikes to me, not the Bible, so I really have no problem with that. You don’t come off as a genuine seeker of the word, but rather just an accuser. Why are stirring up problems here rather than just responding to the OP?
 
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Runningman

Banned
#36
Mar 4, 2020
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#36
Magenta said:
Jesus never said what you claimed.
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Christ said water baptism is part of fulfilling righteousness because water baptism is righteous. You’re free to reject that if you will.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#37
Jan 16, 2021
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#37
Runningman said:
You explained nothing other than you think I’m a troll and am unteachable. You’re assigning strikes to me, not the Bible, so I really have no problem with that. You don’t come off as a genuine seeker of the word, but rather just an accuser. Why are stirring up problems here rather than just responding to the OP?
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I did respond with scripture and you ignored it completely.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#39
Jul 3, 2015
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#39
Runningman said:
Christ said water baptism is part of fulfilling righteousness because water baptism is righteous. You’re free to reject that if you will.
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You are adding to what Jesus said. I reject your additions. I accept what Jesus said :)
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#40
Jan 16, 2021
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#40
Runningman said:
You have referenced no book chapter and verse anywhere to me.
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It's not exactly an uncommon verse. It's in Romans, written by Paul, the Apostle to the Goyim. (That's you)
 
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