BELIEFS ABOUT THE KJV

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Dirtman

Well-known member
#41
Jul 19, 2022
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#41
CS1 said:
love the KJV and the NKJV and the NIV pre 1984 and the NLT and the NASB
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Dont bother with the latest NASB. Gender neutral garbage. I used to love my old NASB version. After reading in the latest I cant even look at my it.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#42
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
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#42
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Beckie said:
Why are we not just thankful we have His Word . We have been blessed and yet ... here we are

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
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I thought we were thankful for The Bible, most of us seem to be. :)
 
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Dirtman

Well-known member
#43
Jul 19, 2022
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#43
chess-player said:
How do you know no one believes this "nonsense"? Are you omniscient? I have discussed this topic in other forums, and I was told that if I didn't use the KJV, I wasn't saved. I was accused of using a corrupt translation that I was deceived, etc.

I say that the KJV is no longer a viable translation since the language used is obsolete.

Your response lacks much.
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I would use the word "optimal" rather than "viable". I used to dislike the King James version, because who King James was. I'm not so difficult now days.
 
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Dirtman

Well-known member
#44
Jul 19, 2022
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#44
I'm gonna get one of the ones translated by the WELS church, Evangelical Heritage Bible. I'll see how that one reads.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#45
Dec 20, 2017
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#45
chess-player said:
How do you know no one believes this "nonsense"? Are you omniscient? I have discussed this topic in other forums, and I was told that if I didn't use the KJV, I wasn't saved. I was accused of using a corrupt translation that I was deceived, etc.

I say that the KJV is no longer a viable translation since the language used is obsolete.

Your response lacks much.
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There are a couple of KJVO diehards around here. You won't get anywhere by reasoning with them.
I've tried numerous times. All you will get is pretentious religious posturing, insinuations that you are stupid
and false allegations of corruption regarding manuscripts and morals.

They've been debunked on every point in detail, several times but they will make the same charges again.
They are not content to read the KJV and be happy with it, they feel they must rubbish every other translation.

You might as well bash your head against a wall as engage with them.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#46
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#46
Lucy-Pevensie said:
There are a couple of KJVO diehards around here. You won't get anywhere by reasoning with them.
I've tried numerous times. All you will get is pretentious religious posturing, insinuations that you are stupid
and false allegations of corruption regarding manuscripts and morals.

They've been debunked on every point in detail, several times but they will make the same charges again.
They are not content to read the KJV and be happy with it, they feel they must rubbish every other translation.

You might as well bash your head against a wall as engage with them.
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Its called the Dunning Kruger effect.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#47
May 23, 2016
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#47
Jocund said:
This comment and point 5 in your OP are your weakest points and don't logically follow. Archaism in itself does not makes something useless, obsolete or less effective than a modern dialect, especially when a mindful effort is taken to understand the archaisms. It can even open up your mind to a different way of thinking.

You could suppose that a modern translation could be better than KJV, but that preference is going to be subjective and has no business being spoken of as a purported objective or universal fact.
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Wow! Now the above was a clear, straight-forward post that really says all that needs to be said about this thread.

In the original post #1 points 1,2,3,4,6 are well-written, true and straight-forward. But then post # 5 is mostly merely opinion:
It states "The truth is modern versions are much better than the KJV." (Opinion!) Then it says, "The KJV is not a readable version compared to many modern versions because of its archaisms and obscure literal renderings." (Opinion) Then it says: "The KJV was based on late and inferior Greek texts while the modern versions are based upon much older and much more reliable Greek texts." (Opinion!)

An approach that on the basis of mere opinion tries to say that the KJV is not a viable and valuable translation for today is just as bad as the KJV "only" approach that says all modern translations are of the devil.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#48
May 23, 2016
4,314
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#48
Lucy-Pevensie said:
There are a couple of KJVO diehards around here. You won't get anywhere by reasoning with them.
I've tried numerous times. All you will get is pretentious religious posturing, insinuations that you are stupid
and false allegations of corruption regarding manuscripts and morals.

They've been debunked on every point in detail, several times but they will make the same charges again.
They are not content to read the KJV and be happy with it, they feel they must rubbish every other translation.

You might as well bash your head against a wall as engage with them.
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Ha! Well said! I just hope we don't have people who are just the opposite -- people who dogmaticaly throw out the KJV and the valuable contributions it has and still gives to the English Christian church.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#49
May 23, 2016
4,314
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#49
chess-player said:
How do you know no one believes this "nonsense"? Are you omniscient? I have discussed this topic in other forums, and I was told that if I didn't use the KJV, I wasn't saved. I was accused of using a corrupt translation that I was deceived, etc.

I say that the KJV is no longer a viable translation since the language used is obsolete.

Your response lacks much.
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Most of here value the KJV and many still use it as a primary translation. But most of us (not all LOL!) do not say that the KJV is the best or the only English translation that should be used.

When you say that the KJV is no longer a "viable" translation - I disagree because I understand and use and read the KJV a lot and it blesses my soul!

But if for someone else (which is the case for many people in different settings than mine) they can read and understand another translation better, then that is the best choice for them.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#50
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#50
I suppose if someone decided to change the Language of the original Hebrew and the original Greek because it was "archaic" most people would have a serious problem with that. It was preserved for a REASON.


My sheep hear My Voice...
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#51
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
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#51
Grandpa said:
I suppose if someone decided to change the Language of the original Hebrew and the original Greek because it was "archaic" most people would have a serious problem with that. It was preserved for a REASON.


My sheep hear My Voice...
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Every translation changes the language otherwise we would be all be reading Greek, Hebrew & Aramaic.
 
chess-player

chess-player

Active member
#52
Jul 14, 2022
205
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#52
Chester said:
Most of here value the KJV and many still use it as a primary translation. But most of us (not all LOL!) do not say that the KJV is the best or the only English translation that should be used.

When you say that the KJV is no longer a "viable" translation - I disagree because I understand and use and read the KJV a lot and it blesses my soul!

But if for someone else (which is the case for many people in different settings than mine) they can read and understand another translation better, then that is the best choice for them.
Click to expand...

The archaic language makes is very difficult to understand this translation. Have you read the entire kjv bible a few times and understood all of it, or did you have to use an Oxford Dictionary to learn what some of the ancient words mean? (double work)
 
chess-player

chess-player

Active member
#53
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#53
Lucy-Pevensie said:
There are a couple of KJVO diehards around here. You won't get anywhere by reasoning with them.
I've tried numerous times. All you will get is pretentious religious posturing, insinuations that you are stupid
and false allegations of corruption regarding manuscripts and morals.

They've been debunked on every point in detail, several times but they will make the same charges again.
They are not content to read the KJV and be happy with it, they feel they must rubbish every other translation.

You might as well bash your head against a wall as engage with them.
Click to expand...
I hear you loud and clear
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#54
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,344
113
#54
Dirtman said:
Dont bother with the latest NASB. Gender neutral garbage. I used to love my old NASB version. After reading in the latest I cant even look at my it.
Click to expand...
then by al means just as the NIV pre 1984 go older :)
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#55
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
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#55
chess-player said:
The archaic language makes is very difficult to understand this translation. Have you read the entire kjv bible a few times and understood all of it, or did you have to use an Oxford Dictionary to learn what some of the ancient words mean? (double work)
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Agreed the language is old . Examples of the words you understand to difficult to understand? Reading almost anything there are often words i need to look -up.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#56
Nov 19, 2019
1,779
624
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#56
Well thanks OP but when you make some statements with nothing to back it up just your words means nothing. Has no weight. Its clear you don't want to use the KJV then don't. You no offense have not dug into this very deep. Some of your statement's are wrong.

See for me there is no perfect translation. Just Hebrew/Greek you can find so many that do not agree with each other.

Heres the kicker WHO leads and guides us into all truth? Just WHO are we relying on to help us understand that scripture? Wise to look into the org meaning not just one translation but a few. Pray and seek ask Him.. so just ONLY having the KJV.. trust me He will tell you show you help you understand what it really says. What HE not the writer but what HE was saying. He can really do anything unless we are telling Him what It really says..He will say nothing.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#57
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
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#57
It amazes me how people spend so much time trying to find fault with the Holy Bible instead of studing Scripture and seeking understanding through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

It serves ZERO purpose to try and find fault with Gods Word. Well, I suppose it serves one purpose........... separation from God.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#58
Jun 30, 2015
25,471
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#58
John146 said:
Nope, I trust that God used them to complete the preservation of his word in the English language.
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Preservation is not a "complete" thing; it's an ongoing thing, and it has nothing to do with English.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#59
Jun 30, 2015
25,471
13,784
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#59
oyster67 said:
:rolleyes:

Whelp, that's a gamechanger. I did not hitherto realize that all 17th-century Englishmen were stupid illiterate morons who were completely unusable by God. :cry:

Sorry about all that previous hullaballoo I just spouted off in the previous posts.

.
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As your reasons for using the KJV, and defenses thereof, are not the same as those of John146, you may ignore my comments to him. :)
 
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