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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#81
interested in anyones thoughts on these verses ,especially verse 7 ? on the surface it sounds like we can achieve eternal life through doing good ect ? but we know Paul goes on to take the legs out from under that option ?
Correct! Jesus Christ did ALL the WORKS needed for our Salvation. The works we do now are either according to our flesh or the Spirit. Our works will be judged by God to determine eternal rewards in heaven but, have NOTHING to do with Salvation.

Romans 2:6-10 (NKJV)
6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
This verse is a continuation of verse 5 and Paul is stressing the point that the righteous judgment of God is that God will give to everyone according to their deeds - meaning what we sow, we will reap - even as believers. Our deeds as believers can be deeds done in our flesh or deeds done by the Spirit.

We have to choose to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. As believers, we have power over our flesh and can deny it but, we have to choose to do so.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Deeds done by the Spirit are eternal, meaning they have eternal reward. We are to store up our treasures in heaven, not on this Earth. Good works that believers do are NOT to maintain salvation or get salvation but, believers do good works because they are choosing to walk by the Spirit which brings glory and honor and their works are incorruptible stored up in heaven.

8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Believers that are choosing to walk according to their flesh are doing works that are self-seeking and not in obedience to the truth. The works of our flesh are unrighteous and every work we do in our flesh will be judged by God and will be consumed in the Fire of His Wrath - there will be no reward in heaven for that work but, they will not lose their salvation.

9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentile;
Our souls are suppose to be in the process of being restored by the renewing of our minds with the Word and Spirit of God but, if a believer keeps choosing to walk in their flesh and not seeking to learn how to walk by the Spirit, then their soul is experiencing God's judgment and is in anguish because they are believers and are in turmoil - a struggle inside them between their flesh and the Spirit.

Judgment always begins at the House of God which is the Jew, then God judges the Gentile. Paul is telling us that no one escapes God's judgment - everyone's works will pass through the Fire of God and all works will be judged beginning with the Jew, then the Gentile.

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.
God's goodness (glory) and God's honor and God's peace will be given to every believer that learns to choose to walk by the Spirit in total harmony with God by denying their flesh and renewing their mind with the Word and Spirit of God so that they can know and do the perfect will of God.

The blessing of God's goodness, honor and peace will be given to the Jew first and then the Gentile because the Jew passes through God's judgment first, then the Gentile.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#82
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12¶For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#83
Correct! Jesus Christ did ALL the WORKS needed for our Salvation. The works we do now are either according to our flesh or the Spirit. Our works will be judged by God to determine eternal rewards in heaven but, have NOTHING to do with Salvation.



This verse is a continuation of verse 5 and Paul is stressing the point that the righteous judgment of God is that God will give to everyone according to their deeds - meaning what we sow, we will reap - even as believers. Our deeds as believers can be deeds done in our flesh or deeds done by the Spirit.

We have to choose to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. As believers, we have power over our flesh and can deny it but, we have to choose to do so.



Deeds done by the Spirit are eternal, meaning they have eternal reward. We are to store up our treasures in heaven, not on this Earth. Good works that believers do are NOT to maintain salvation or get salvation but, believers do good works because they are choosing to walk by the Spirit which brings glory and honor and their works are incorruptible stored up in heaven.



Believers that are choosing to walk according to their flesh are doing works that are self-seeking and not in obedience to the truth. The works of our flesh are unrighteous and every work we do in our flesh will be judged by God and will be consumed in the Fire of His Wrath - there will be no reward in heaven for that work but, they will not lose their salvation.



Our souls are suppose to be in the process of being restored by the renewing of our minds with the Word and Spirit of God but, if a believer keeps choosing to walk in their flesh and not seeking to learn how to walk by the Spirit, then their soul is experiencing God's judgment and is in anguish because they are believers and are in turmoil - a struggle inside them between their flesh and the Spirit.

Judgment always begins at the House of God which is the Jew, then God judges the Gentile. Paul is telling us that no one escapes God's judgment - everyone's works will pass through the Fire of God and all works will be judged beginning with the Jew, then the Gentile.



God's goodness (glory) and God's honor and God's peace will be given to every believer that learns to choose to walk by the Spirit in total harmony with God by denying their flesh and renewing their mind with the Word and Spirit of God so that they can know and do the perfect will of God.

The blessing of God's goodness, honor and peace will be given to the Jew first and then the Gentile because the Jew passes through God's judgment first, then the Gentile.
I would agree but add in respect to judgement or blessing peace.

Possibly because it was through the Jewish ceremonial laws as shadows of the good things to come that God used to draw the gentile nations of the world. . in order that they seek after the traditions of God. Where and when then by faith they could enter in. The Jew were used as shadow and types .Not the gentiles .The honor is the honor of God .Not sure if it time sensitive as to nations as first in order. . When he said it is finished all the graves of all the nations of old testament saints that had the Spirit of Christ opened and enter the first ressurection. .But first in purpose. . a shadow,
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#84
I would agree but add in respect to judgement or blessing - peace.

Possibly because it was through the Jewish ceremonial laws as shadows of the good things to come that God used to draw the gentile nations of the world. . in order that they seek after the traditions of God. Where and when then by faith they could enter in.

The Jew were used as shadow and types. Not the gentiles. The honor is the honor of God. Not sure if it time sensitive as to nations as first in order. .

When he said it is finished all the graves of all the nations of old testament saints that had the Spirit of Christ opened and enter the first resurrection. But first in purpose. . a shadow.
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say.............:unsure:

I do not think the Gentiles came to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior through the Jewish ceremonial laws because they did not know them but, they came to believe in Jesus Christ because God shined His Light to the Gentiles and opened their understanding by the Holy Spirit and they believed, loved the Truth and were saved.

However, the Truth of Salvation in Jesus Christ came through the Jews to the Gentiles but, not by ceremonial laws.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead first and then other graves were also opened and those that rose were seen. This is counted as part of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, NOT the First Resurrection.

The First Resurrection will be when Jesus Christ returns to the Earth. The Second Resurrection will be at the end of all things - at the Great White Throne of Judgment.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#85
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
In judgment, God is no respecter of persons meaning God is just and will judge the Jews and the Gentiles the same. All works of the flesh will be consumed in the Fire of God and all works of the Spirit will have eternal rewards.

Non-Believers that are both Jews and Gentiles will simply perish because they did not believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King. All the works of non-believers are works of the flesh and will be consumed in the Fire of God.

God is just and is no respecter of persons - He is just in all His judgments. No flesh will glory in God's Presence and no flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

12¶For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
The Gentiles have sinned without the law and will also perish without the law because they are non-believers in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King which means they are subject to God's Wrath and will perish.

The Jews have sinned knowing the law and will be judged by the law and perish because even though they know the law, they cannot keep it and without faith in Jesus Christ, the Jews are non-believers in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King which means they will experience God's Wrath and will perish.

(Side Note: ONLY the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ has the power to deliver Jew or Gentile from God's Wrath.)

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
This verse is in parentheses so, it was not written by Paul but, was added later for clarification.

The Jews "heard" the law but, were NOT able to do it - obey the law so, even though the Jews had the law - they were NOT justified before God.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Paul is noting that the Gentiles obey the law more than the Jews even though the Gentiles were not given the law - the law was given to the Jews.

The Gentiles obey God's law because they by nature follow the law of love and being kind to one another......love for God and love for others is the fulfilling of the law. The Gentiles just did not know God and worshiped false idols.

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
The Gentiles walking in love towards each other was evidence that the law was written in their hearts.

However, their moral or immoral behavior testified if their thoughts were right or wrong towards each other.

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
NOTE: I added Verse 16 to the post because it is the conclusion of verse 12 in which Paul is explaining that there is no difference between Jew or Gentile in God's judgment and there will be a day when God will judge the secrets (thoughts and deeds) of all people (Jew and Gentile - Believer and Non-Believer).

All will pass through God's judgment upon works of the flesh and works of the Spirit and faith in Jesus Christ and no faith in Jesus Christ.

Only the people that have faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King and only works of the Spirit will survive God's judgment and have eternal life and eternal rewards.
 

Lafftur

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#86
Romans 2:17-24 (KJV)
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#87
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say.............:unsure:

I do not think the Gentiles came to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior through the Jewish ceremonial laws because they did not know them but, they came to believe in Jesus Christ because God shined His Light to the Gentiles and opened their understanding by the Holy Spirit and they believed, loved the Truth and were saved.

However, the Truth of Salvation in Jesus Christ came through the Jews to the Gentiles but, not by ceremonial laws.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead first and then other graves were also opened and those that rose were seen. This is counted as part of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, NOT the First Resurrection.

The First Resurrection will be when Jesus Christ returns to the Earth. The Second Resurrection will be at the end of all things - at the Great White Throne of Judgment.
Thanks for the reply.

The gospel truth as the "law of faith" came to the Jews came through the word of God. Never in respect to the flesh of a Jew or gentile.

But the same faith that worked in Abel .Before the Jewish nation was formed for the purpose of of ceremonies and signs to the world. And not a sign unto their own flesh as self edifying. The attention or purpose is not to those cerebrating the shadows.

They as new nation began when leaving Egypt. The gospel of faith. The beginning of the ceremonial laws as a show to the world.

Abraham spoke of the fulling of the promise of rest (sabbath )400 years later . That rest can be seen in the two different rendering of the ten commandments. Moving from creation ( Exodus)to the rest of the deliverance of a people that he would use as types and shadows of the unseen eternal glory hid from mankind. (Deuteronomy) Unto the promised demonstration according to prophecy of Abraham the new testament. The time of reformation. .
In the garden first and then the cross moving to the third part of the three day s demonstration the tomb . The last part the demonstration of faith .

The unseen work of the father working with the Son of man so that His earthen body of death did not completely corrupt never to rise.

Two rendering of the ten commandments .One commandment used as a ceremonial shadow.

Ex 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Two different reasoning or witnesses .The unseen witness of God at creation and the witness of men. God moving men out of Egypt as God worked in them to both will and perform his good pleasure. Again to be used in ceremonial laws to all the nations. You could say the witness of to show and tell.

We cannot under mind the purpose of parables used as cerinimoinal laws that hide the gospel truth from the world. They teach us how to walk by faith. The unseen eternal .

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The lord does not use parable in respect to moral laws ..because of that we can be sure it is a shadow of the good things to come a new creation. Nothing to do with the flesh of the nations.

The Jewish nation was not formed until Abraham coming from two different gentile nations .Hittites and Amorites. Again for the purpose of the drawing of through the ceremonial laws . Like the Sabbath.

Ceremonial law as parables were used to give the gospel understanding hid in parables as ceremonial laws. They preached of the sufferings of Christ before hand and the glory that followed. We by the same spirit of faith look back to the glory, the end of the faith that worked in them. They looked ahead by faith. Teaching the nations to walk by faith the unseen will of God. Never in respect to the sinful flesh of mankind .

1 Peter 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

It provided the First Resurrection opening the gates of the city prepared as the bride of Christ the church. They will remain open until the Secord Resurrection. the end of the age, the end of time .No longer under the Sun the temporal .

Every part of any of the ceremonial laws preached the gospel beforehand .
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#88
Romans 2:17-24 (KJV)
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,


Paul had been a Pharisee full of pride so he understood the pride that held Jews in bondage.

Paul addresses the Jewish believers and confronts them about their pride in the fact that God gave them the law and how they boast about it and are confident that they are okay with God because they have the law.

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;


Paul continues speaking to the Jews about how they pridefully boast that they know God's will and can judge and approve what is best because they are instructed by the law.


19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,


Paul continues speaking to the Jews telling them their pride has made them so confident and sure that they can guide others and teach them because they have the law and those "other people" without the law are in darkness and don't know what God's Will is.

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.


Paul is exposing the Jews "blind spot" with the law which is that they believe because they have the law, they can instruct the foolish and teach the unlearned. He too had been blinded by pride and guilty of doing the same thing because he had also studied and had acquired an understanding of knowledge and the truth in the law just like them.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?


Now, Paul is exposing that not only are they guilty of being prideful of having the law but, they are also guilty of not keeping the law.

The Jews are suppose to be teachers of the law yet, while teaching others they are also being held accountable of doing what they teach others to do; such as preaching that it is wrong to steal yet, they are guilty of stealing and are not keeping the law or doing what they teach.


22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?


Paul just continues with more of how the Jews are guilty of doing what they teach others not to do.


23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?


Yet the Jews boast how they are the "keepers of the law" and all they do is break it which dishonors God.


24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
In response to the Jews pridefulness and disobedience, the name of God is evil spoken of by the Gentiles.

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Anybody and everybody - jump in! Share your thoughts and insights, too! I've been enjoying going through the Book of Romans verse by verse. :love:(y)


Not sure what happen to the OP @kimberleygail - she started this thread and then disappeared! lol! :giggle:
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#89
25¶For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#90
25¶For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God
Can't keep the law . Basically 😆 lol
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#91
Romans 2:25-29 (KJV)
25¶For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
The Jews boasted about the law but, they also made their boast about being circumcised which was an outward sign that they were in covenant with God.

Paul is telling them that only if they obey the law does being circumcised have any value or importance to them. Otherwise, if they break the law then their circumcision does them no good because breaking the law is breaking covenant with God.

26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
When Paul refers to the "circumcision," he is speaking of the Gentiles which believed in Jesus Christ as Savior and walked in love and faith which is the righteousness of the law.

Paul then makes the statement that even though the Gentiles are not circumcised, they are counted as being circumcised because they are fulfilling the law as believers in Christ.

27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
The Gentiles which were born uncircumcised yet, because they fulfill the law by faith and love in Christ, their obedience to the law passes judgment on the Jews which trust in the letter of the law (not faith) and their circumcision, all the while the Jews are breaking the law with disobedience.

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Paul is trying to get the Jews to tear down their wall of works that hinders them from entering into living by faith in God's Truth.

Paul is saying, "Hey, even though you look like a Jew on the outside by what you wear and how you act - THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A JEW." Also, Paul is saying, "BEING CIRCUMCISED ON THE OUTSIDE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A JEW."

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God
It's the inward circumcision of the heart that perceives by faith and love the Truth of God's Word and believes in Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King - that person is a Jew.

That person is NOT praised or highly esteemed by man/people as being a Jew but, that person is highly esteemed by God as being a Jew.

A Jew being defined as God's people, God's possession - the ones that God is in covenant with.

-----------------------------------

That concludes Romans Chapter 2! Yay! :love:(y)

Everyone is welcome to jump in and share your thoughts and insights into the scriptures! :love:(y)
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#92
Rom chapter 3
1¶What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5¶But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#93
SORRY, I HAD A TYPO!!! :giggle:

throughfaith said:
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

When Paul refers to the "UNcircumcision," he is speaking of the Gentiles which believed in Jesus Christ as Savior and walked in love and faith which is the righteousness of the law.

Paul then makes the statement that even though the Gentiles are not circumcised, they are counted as being circumcised because they are fulfilling the law as believers in Christ.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#94
SORRY, I HAD A TYPO!!! :giggle:

throughfaith said:
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

When Paul refers to the "UNcircumcision," he is speaking of the Gentiles which believed in Jesus Christ as Savior and walked in love and faith which is the righteousness of the law.

Paul then makes the statement that even though the Gentiles are not circumcised, they are counted as being circumcised because they are fulfilling the law as believers in Christ.
Yes the law of the first born, our bloody husband Christ. The veil representing the flesh of Christ is rent. The shadow became the substance .

It is seen in the parable below

Exodus 4:26 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#95
ROMANS 3
1¶What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
These are two rhetorical questions that Paul is asking because he is acknowledging that his previous statements made it sound like there is nothing special about being a Jew and circumcision has no benefit. However, Paul is not saying that and wants to clarify so the reader can better understand.

2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Paul is saying that being a Jew and being circumcised both have advantage and profit mainly because God chose them to give His oracles to.

The Jews were to keep all the sacred writings of Moses, all the Law - ceremonial, dietary, civil, and ten commandments and the Torah and the instructions on the building of the Tabernacle/Temple and all it's artifacts - all of these things were object lessons and/or shadows of the Messiah so, the Jews could recognize their Messiah and proclaim Him to the world.

3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Paul understands that some Jews do not believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah even though they have all the oracles of God which testify of the Messiah. Paul makes the statement that even if Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah it does not change the fact that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

The Jews unbelief does not change God’s faith/knowing/truth that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.


4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
When Paul says, “God forbid,” he means “Absolutely NOT!”

So, Paul is telling us that God is not changing the fact that Jesus Christ is the Messiah just because some of the Jews do not believe. This would make God a liar and God is “Absolutely NOT” a liar but, every man is a liar and because of this God is always correct in His sayings and every word of God is proven to be true when judged according to truth.


5¶But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Paul continues to try to help the reader understand that God is just in all that He does and God is not dependent upon us for God to be righteous.

Unbelief is unrighteousness and when the Jews choose not to believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah it is considered unrighteousness.


Paul is also commenting that sins of unrighteousness when compared to God's righteousness do not magnify or make God's righteousness any more glorious or grander than it already is. God does not need our unrighteousness to make Him look good. Instead, God condemns our unrighteousness - He will take vengeance on it.

Paul ask the rhetorical question, “Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance?” which means God will execute vengeance on all unrighteousness including unbelief of the Jew and/or Gentile. Even though the Jews are God’s people, He will take vengeance on their unbelief and God is not unrighteous for doing so.
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NOTE: Paul's writings are kind of tricky because he often uses rhetorical questions which may confuse the reader.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#96
These next three verses (Romans 3:6-8) are Paul continuing the subject of God's judgment from the previous verses 1-5.

Romans 3:6-8 (KJV)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#97
These next three verses (Romans 3:6-8) are Paul continuing the subject of God's judgment from the previous verses 1-5.

Romans 3:6-8 (KJV)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Paul is saying, "Absolutely NOT! God is NOT unrighteous for taking vengeance upon the unrighteous. If God is UNrighteous in taking vengeance upon the unrighteous then, He would be unrighteous to judge the world so, do you see how ridiculous it is to call God unrighteous for taking vengeance?!" :rolleyes:

(I had to add the "rolling eyes" emoji because I bet Paul was rolling his eyes when he wrote that! :giggle:)

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Paul is saying, "Come on, people!!! Seriously?! If you think that by me lying actually causes God's Truth to shine brighter then, why and how can God still judge me as a sinner for lying?!!!"

Side Note: The flesh is just looking for any excuse plausible to keep sinning and be okay with God at the same time. It's just absolutely ridiculous and Paul is trying his best to expose this stupid lie because God is and will judge ALL unrighteousness - no one gets a free pass to sin.

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Paul is confronting any rumors that others have said about him or those in leadership that support this wrong mindset which is that it's okay to do evil because doing evil causes good to happen.

Paul is pronouncing that those that spread these rumors of lies will receive damnation and it is just that they receive it.
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I love Paul! He's so "in your face!" His zeal, love and passion for God and God's Truth is so contagious!! :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,214
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#98
Here are the next 5 verses...... Anyone want to share their thoughts or insights? :unsure:

Romans 3:9-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”

13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
2,120
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#99
Here are the next 5 verses...... Anyone want to share their thoughts or insights? :unsure:

Romans 3:9-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”

13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
Calvinst proof texts alert 📢 😆
 
Apr 18, 2017
5,214
2,643
113
Romans 3:9-13 New King James Version (NKJV)
All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.


Paul has previously proved that Jews are not without sin, and Greek/Gentiles are not without sin. Now, Paul is turning his attention to the Believer that just because we have Christ as our Savior, God does not see us as "better" than the Jew or Gentile in regards to sin because just like them we could not pay the penalty for our own sin - just like the Jew and Gentile, every Believer needs Jesus Christ to save us from our sins.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;


Paul was raised a Pharisee and had studied the Torah and the writings of Moses and the Prophets and also all the Psalms....Paul is now simply quoting scriptures from various passages of all the writings of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms.

Paul simply uses scripture to explain that NONE, absolutely none, no one is......

righteous by the fulfilling of the law.

11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.


Paul simply uses scripture to explain that NONE, absolutely none, no one is......

seeking God nor does anyone understand God and His Ways.


12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”


Paul continues quoting scripture to explain that everyone forgot God and are guilty of living their life their own way which makes a person completely not able to bear good fruit or have anything that reflects the goodness of God in their life.

Paul says no one does good - absolutely no one.


13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
Paul continues quoting scripture.......

Now about everyone's "words"....... just words of death, lies, trickery, poison words that flatter but sting - hidden agenda, using their words to manipulate others.

---------------------------------

There's just nothing that makes any of us "better" than anyone else - Jew, Gentile, even Believer. All Jews, All Gentiles, All Believers NEED the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ to be saved.