Bible study - anyone?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,452
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#41
A bible study without the words of Jesus?
Many books in the Bible will not have the actual words of Christ. But they cannot be divorced from His teachings. Also the epistles and other books build on the foundation of Christ and His teachings.

The epistle to the Romans is a key book in Scripture, since it spells out the Gospel and its ramifications in great detail. But there are probably no direct quotations of Christ.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
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#42
Romans 1:16-20

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Verse 16 is key . We need to believe this . THE GOSPEL IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION . not 'regeneration precedes faith or ' irresistible/ previnient grace . Faith comes by hearing .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,656
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#43
It has always given me a true fright when people who say they believe Jesus never use His teaching on a given subject in order to convey truth. Strange is it not?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
476
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#44
It has always given me a true fright when people who say they believe Jesus never use His teaching on a given subject in order to convey truth. Strange is it not?
I find it a problem when people read Jesus words without asking who he is talking to , what's the timeline , when is it ? is it before the cross or after the cross ? is it to jews or gentiles ? Is He teaching furure , past or present ? instead some will read as if every word is to them individually and without context.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
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#45
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
I prefer the Kjv for
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The differce between " who CHANGED the truth of God for a lie " v They EXCHANGED the truth ABOUT God for a lie" Is very different .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
476
83
#46
I prefer the Kjv for
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The differce between " who CHANGED the truth of God for a lie " v They EXCHANGED the truth ABOUT God for a lie" Is very different .
I.ll start that again lol

I prefer the Kjv for
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The differce between " who CHANGED the truth of God INTO a lie " Compared with : They EXCHANGED the truth ABOUT God FOR a lie" Is very different .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
476
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#47
Romans 1:16-20

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
verse 17 parallels Habakkuk 2.4 .
But in Habakkuk it says " his faith '
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Romans 17 is different ..its the Faith of Jesus .
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Romans 1:17, KJV


"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
Galatians 3:11, KJV
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,133
2,593
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#48
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
In Paul is elaborating on how man knows God and is without excuse because of the measure of faith all receive and how creation testifies of God but, because of pride man rejects God and will not glorify God or be thankful to Him. Pride leads man to human reasoning that does not depend on God for understanding so their hearts become dark and they have no light.

NOTE: Human reasoning from a humble heart that is seeking God is good and will find God and know and love the Truth. However, the bad human reasoning is from a prideful heart that is seeking God for selfish motives or rejecting God for selfish reasons. It is important to pay close attention to our hearts when seeking God.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
Pride will always think it is wise but, a wise person is not prideful but humble. So, because they think they are wise they actually become fools because of pride.


23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
A prideful heart cannot know God and will look for other ways to have a "god" in their life that they can handle and control. Paul is explaining how man falls away from the True God to worship False Idols because of pride.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
God deals with all of us but, there is a point where God no longer strives with us but, gives us over to our pride and demise. Pride leads to all kinds of sinful ways, especially sexual impurity that degrades the person's body and the body of others.

God's way is a way of holiness which is no sex until marriage and marriage is between a man and a woman.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Pride just simply seeks to have pleasure with no respect for God or others. Once full of pride, there is no more room for humility nor any desire, dependency or awareness of God and the person rejects God's Truth and embraces a lie because God's Truth goes against Pride's desire for pleasure.

They end up replacing the True God with Creation instead of the True Creator.

Paul declares that only the True Creator is forever praised. So be it.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#49
26¶For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28¶And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
476
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#50
26¶For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28¶And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them
Interesting the usage of the Word ' Natural ' ( verses 26,27,31). In 1 cor2.14 it says the ' natural man ' also. Which I believe is still talking about a believer who is behaving carnally . 'Natural' is nowhere used as a negative and here in Romans its actually a positive where people have moved away from the ' natural ' use .( Juat an aside :))
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,816
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#51
One thing this passage tells us is there are not true atheists. and also, that no one will have an excuse,
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
476
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#52
1¶Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,829
1,507
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#53
verse 17 parallels Habakkuk 2.4 .
But in Habakkuk it says " his faith '
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Romans 17 is different ..its the Faith of Jesus .
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."
Romans 1:17, KJV


"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
Galatians 3:11, KJV

Yes His faith, the faith of Christ which mutually works in new creatures as a labor of His unseen love.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

One spirit one work of one faith

remember we are born with no faith not little none . As believer we have little measure. he must increase as we decrease. If they had as much faith as God they literally could say to this mountain move or water be still and know I am God.

Little faith is used 7 times in the new testament to represent the measure he has freely given as the power that works from within . He says why wonder and doubt rather than beleive?

Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,951
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#54
I prefer the Kjv for
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The differce between " who CHANGED the truth of God for a lie " v They EXCHANGED the truth ABOUT God for a lie" Is very different .
Interesting. I find the KJV to be inferior in this case, because truth cannot be changed. It can, however, be suppressed, ignored, denied, or rejected. The moment that truthful information is "changed", it is no longer truth.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
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#55
Interesting. I find the KJV to be inferior in this case, because truth cannot be changed. It can, however, be suppressed, ignored, denied, or rejected. The moment that truthful information is "changed", it is no longer truth.
It says the truth 'of God ' into a lie .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,951
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#56
It says the truth 'of God ' into a lie .
Yes, I caught that. I think "exchange" is a better word for what is happening. Truth is truth, and the word "of" can mean "belonging to" or "pertaining to"; I think it is the latter in this case.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
1,998
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#57
Yes, I caught that. I think "exchange" is a better word for what is happening. Truth is truth, and the word "of" can mean "belonging to" or "pertaining to"; I think it is the latter in this case.
NIV
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
ESV
because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

KJV
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
NKJV
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
NASB
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
The truth of God v The truth about God . The latter is vauge, indirect and with less intent. The former is stronger and leaves people without excuse .
KJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

NIV
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Big difference.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,951
8,063
113
#58
NIV
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
ESV
because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

KJV
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
NKJV
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
NASB
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
The truth of God v The truth about God . The latter is vauge, indirect and with less intent. The former is stronger and leaves people without excuse .
KJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

NIV
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
Big difference.
Yes, big difference. The NIV and NASB are much more clear. "Hold the truth in unrighteousness" is 16th century bafflegab. "Suppress the truth by their wickedness" is specific and clear to the 21st century ear.

Can any human change the truth of God? Can any human add to or remove from the truth of God? No. I maintain that the KJV wording is therefore inferior. I see nothing in your defense other than your opinion.

I suggest we leave it at that, unless you want to acknowledge that your opinion really doesn't carry any objective weight. ;)
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,475
182
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#59
Anyone want to learn bible? Let's learn and together, let's be friends :)! Let me know~
I like what Albert Garner put in his book Bible Analysis.

Who is speaking?
To whom?
What is the subject?
What is the occasion?

Answer these when looking at a passage and you get a clear picture of what God is showing
 
Apr 2, 2020
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#60
Paul has finished his greeting and is now addressing his audience that he is writing to which is Jew and Gentile believers. He acknowledges and validates the Gentile believers and confirms that they are called along with the Jews to BOTH belong to Jesus Christ.

There was a great conflict between Jews and Gentile believers about who belongs to Jesus Christ. It was hard for Jews that had always had to separate from Gentiles, to now join themselves to Gentiles as equal believers in Jesus Christ.



Paul again is confirming that God has now opened the door and BOTH Jew and Gentile are called by God when he says, "...to ALL in Rome who are loved by God and called to be His holy people..."

Paul extends and imparts the heart of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ which is "grace" and "peace" to the Believers in Rome which is basically, saying our Father and Lord Jesus Christ offer you grace (not judgment or wrath) and peace (no fear of shame because all your sins are forgiven).



Paul expresses thankfulness to God because of Jesus Christ saving all of them. Paul knows they are saved because he is hearing reports of their faith in Jesus Christ all over the world.

Possibly stories of their love for each other Jew and Gentile, bond or free, rich or poor - acts of healing, preaching the gospel, prophesying, simple kindness toward each other, etc. - all the stories are being told Paul and he is rejoicing!



Paul is asking God to confirm that he (Paul) is always remembering the believers.......




......in his prayers. Basically, Paul is saying, "God knows and can confirm that I am always praying for you."

Next, Paul asks God to open up a way that he could come to the believers in Rome and visit them and see them.
Just my own thoughts.......Paul is probably in prison and asking God for a "Get out of jail FREE Card" so he can visit the believers. lol! :giggle::love:(y)
There's also a lot going on in Rome at this time that made relations between Jews and Gentiles especially touchy. Not often talked about but jews were expelled from the city of Rome for a period before the Jewish revolts and the jews were likely just starting to return at the time the book of Romans was written. So the gentile believers had grown up without a Jewish influence and the Jewish believers were just starting to have to deal with adding gentiles to their numbers.