Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?

[Alter2Ego]

When a person tries to seperate the literal from the symbolic in God's word they miss out. That is how you know it is Gods' word and comes from God Himself, because both the literal and the symbolic are true simultaneously.

ALTER2EGO -to- GRANDPA:
When a person applies literal meaning to symbolic language, we end up with traditions of men that are passed off as Bible teachings.

This is precisely why I stick with the KJV. Its old enough so that these newer, incorrect beliefs aren't added in, unbeknownst to the innocent reader.

Plus, I got to use the word unbeknownst in a sentence, awesome!!

Are you sure you want to stand by the portion of your text that I bolded above? Are you saying the King James Version doesn't have fabrications aka language that was added in? I'm talking language in the KJV that does not appear in the original writings of the Judeo-Christian Bible.

 

[Laodicea]

ALTER2EGO -to- LAODICEA:
I appreciate the verses of scriptures you presented in your post, quoted above. Those verses help us appreciate that Jesus Christ was appointed to serve specific roles by Almighty God YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh and that Jesus was begotten by God.

In your previous response, you said God is a plurality, but you presented no scriptures to prove that to be so.

I think I know what you are saying, if I am correct you are saying that Jesus was literally begotten by the Father before any creation. I am having the same discussion with a guy outside this forum who BTW is not a JW.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I think I know what you are saying, if I am correct you are saying that Jesus was literally begotten by the Father before any creation. I am having the same discussion with a guy outside this forum who BTW is not a JW.

ALTER2EGO -to- LAODICEA:
Sorry, but I didn't "say" anything of the sort. I quoted the Bible, which is the inspired word of Almighty God. You probably looked up the verses that I cited at Post 38 on Page 2 of this thread, after which you drew your own conclusion. Below is the weblink that will get you to my Post 38 quickly.


http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...le-teachings-traditions-men-2.html#post809517

 

[Abiding]

ALTER2EGO -to- SHAIJI:
Let me explain something to you: Posting in Font #4, like you did at Post 41, does not make your argument anymore convincing. If anything, it only makes your erroneous argument more visible. Why? Because you are cherry picking John 1:1 and ignoring the context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters).

You did the same thing with Revelation. You cherry picked verses and ignored the context within which they appear. The book of Revelation is written almost entirely in symbolic/figurative language and presents prophetic future events with much symbolism.
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But you have done nothing but cherry pick. Honestly you deserve a reward for your cherry picking

 

[Laodicea]

ALTER2EGO -to- LAODICEA:
Sorry, but I didn't "say" anything of the sort. I quoted the Bible, which is the inspired word of Almighty God. You probably looked up the verses that I cited at Post 38 on Page 2 of this thread, after which you drew your own conclusion. Below is the weblink that will get you to my Post 38 quickly.


http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...le-teachings-traditions-men-2.html#post809517

I did say if I am correct, maybe you should state exactly what you believe.

 

[Abiding]

I was tempted to call out the traditions of men of JW's but that would be for another thread.
Im sure soon this thread will bear fruit. As it is.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I did say if I am correct, maybe you should state exactly what you believe.

ALTER2EGO -to- LAODICEA:
I believe everything that is written in the God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible.

I also believe it is vitally important to pay attention to context (the surrounding words, verses, and chapters) when reading God's inspired word. By paying attention to the context within which individual verses appear, one is able to get the correct understanding of the contents of the Bible.

 

[psychomom]

I was tempted to call out the traditions of men of JW's but that would be for another thread.
Im sure soon this thread will bear fruit. As it is.

cherries, or....? you always make me laugh.
it's a gift you share with everyone.

thanks-
ellie

 

[kenisyes]

ALTER2EGO -to- KENISYES:
Above is my previous response to you. Please quote me where I said anything about Revelation being false. I said it is written mostly in figurative speech (symbolic language). I further explained that symbolic language goes much deeper than the face value.

That's true you did not. I apologize. Some people equate the two. I agree the meaning could be way deeper, as well. But the deeper meaning, having been created in the heavenlies, gives rise to its manifestation on the earth, and in this case that is a lake of fire.

Let me clarify part of that deeper meaning. Fire was something more for the ancients than it is for us. The word actually referred to penetrating atoms that cut through and make tiny holes in whatever comes in contact with them (see the Timaeus). What we call fire was thought to be a manifestation of that. So this lake is made of such a thing, and that's part of why the bodies do not get burned up. There is a symbol here: dying and rising again opens us to the reality of God's righteousness in a way we will be unable to hide from as we can in this life. For those who die in Jesus, that will mean being at peace, and our bodies and souls will know eternal joy. For those who rise in a state of having avoided God, and acted in sin, they will feel the righteousness of God penetrate them in every pore of their body, and it will hurt. It will feel like fire. Relative to the world that is to come, it will be fire. But because that world is eternal, it will be everything fire is here now, and more.

 

[kenisyes]

ALTER2EGO -to- KENISYES:
I read the passage at 1 Corinthians 15:22 that you gave in your previous response (at Post 2), and I fail to see any connection with that verse and hellfire torment. Suppose you quote the verse and then point out to the forum how you came to your conclusion by bolding the words within the quotation that from which you got your deduction? Clearly, you are seeing something in that verse that I'm not seeing. So please elaborate on that for me.

Actually, the verse is somewhat applicable as it stands. It states "we shall ALL be raised". The applicability is that not only the dead in Christ shall be raised. Therefore, the question must be asked what happens to the others.

What I mean was 15:52: "the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". This proves everyone will be raised, but not all changed. It also proves that once raised, they cannot "corrupt" again. The original Greek (Strongs 862) includes the word immortal. Both verses, especially this, rule out the option that God will simply "erase" some people. He must put them somewhere.

 

[kenisyes]

ALTER2EGO -to- KENISYES:
There are no scriptures anywhere in the Bible that speaks of literal fiery torment. You said Jesus spoke several times of eternal torment. Please provide a few examples of this and then explain why you feel he was speaking of literal fiery torment. The key word is "literal." Keep that in mind when you are quoting Jesus Christ.

All Scriptures below come from the mouth of Jesus:

Matt. 5:22, Matt. 18:9 , Mark 9:43, Mark 9:45, Mark 9;47 are several Scriptures that could cause confusion. They use the Greek word pur, which means fire, either literal or figurative. These Scriptures prove that either one or the other is waiting for people after death. Since the Greek word can mean either, they do not tell us which is meant with certainty.

Luke 16:23 uses the word "flame". Now this passage is only a story, so it does not prove the place exists. However, the use of the word "flame" shows that Jesus and probably most of the Jews understood which of the two meanings was meant by the other passages. If they accepted the story as reasonable, they must have thought it reasonable that the afterlife could have people in a place with flame that was hot.

 

[angelofmercy]

Actually, the verse is somewhat applicable as it stands. It states "we shall ALL be raised". The applicability is that not only the dead in Christ shall be raised. Therefore, the question must be asked what happens to the others.

What I mean was 15:52: "the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". This proves everyone will be raised, but not all changed. It also proves that once raised, they cannot "corrupt" again. The original Greek (Strongs 862) includes the word immortal. Both verses, especially this, rule out the option that God will simply "erase" some people. He must put them somewhere.

The answer is there staring you in the face, beloved. If we are all raised incorruptible, without sin and in the image of Christ, then they and we will be with Christ.

 

[kenisyes]

I'm impressed with your post, so i am not trying to throw a wrench in your game here...But, the 1611 King James and the King James Standard Version (pure cambridge) both say Jehovah.

Just to keep the record straight, that is not a correct translation. After the Babylonian exile, the Jews did not feel worthy to call God by His proper name, which is the Hebrew consonants YHWH. They did not have vowels in the Hebrew language at this time. Since the Jews stopped saying the name, when the vowels were assigned later by the Masoretes, the vowels were added to all the rest of the Hebrew Bible, but not to this word. Instead, they put an asterisk by the name, and in a margin, said "use Adonai instead". Adonai means Lord. When they translated the King James, they took the consonants from YHWH, and the vowels from Adonai. They then altered everything based on the English accent of the time, using J for Y, V for W, and E for the first, shorter Hebrew A. That made the word Jehovah.

 

[kenisyes]

Do not tell me what I believe is garbage also you need to read your Bible because forever and ever does not mean eternal it means as long as it lasts just as in Jonah it says he was in the belly forever yet was only in there 3 days. If you wish to discuss this further you can start a new thread as this is not your thread.

I need a verse for that. All I can see is three days and three nights.

 

[kenisyes]

The answer is there staring you in the face, beloved. If we are all raised incorruptible, without sin and in the image of Christ, then they and we will be with Christ.

I disagree on that interpretation. I believe it says the dead shall be raised incorruptible (including both those who died in Jesus, and those who did not), and we (that's those who died in Christ) shall be changed. Part of this is based on the Greek word for raised; it applies only to coming back to life. Often another word is used, to be raised to a ministry or to a purpose, or to righteousness.

 

[angelofmercy]

I need a verse for that. All I can see is three days and three nights.

Jonah 2:6

6*I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

 

[kenisyes]

Jonah 2:6

6*I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

That was Jonah's opinion. If three days can feel like forever, what will forever feel like?

 

[angelofmercy]

I disagree on that interpretation. I believe it says the dead shall be raised incorruptible (including both those who died in Jesus, and those who did not), and we (that's those who died in Christ) shall be changed. Part of this is based on the Greek word for raised; it applies only to coming back to life. Often another word is used, to be raised to a ministry or to a purpose, or to righteousness.

So if ALL the dead are raised INCORRUPTIBLE, then by default are not all changed? And you do not need greek to understand the simplicity of Christ.

 

[kenisyes]

So if ALL the dead are raised INCORRUPTIBLE, then by default are not all changed? And you do not need greek to understand the simplicity of Christ.

There is more than one type of change. The rich man (Luke 16:19 etc.) is presented as incorruptible in Jesus' story. But he is in a very different type of life from what Jesus will be after His resurrection.

 

[angelofmercy]

There is more than one type of change. The rich man (Luke 16:19 etc.) is presented as incorruptible in Jesus' story. But he is in a very different type of life from what Jesus will be after His resurrection.

The rich man is but a parable. And there are 12 tribes in Israel so of course we will all be different.