BIBLE VERSES EXPLAINING SOME TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
6,120
266
83
#41
John 21:25 King James Version (KJV)

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Let me make additional analysis

Is that verse above the reason pray to Mary is not in the Bible but it is one of the teaching of Jesus?

Not enough space to wrote please pray to Mary, Mary is when of heaven, God take her body to heaven.

Only need one line.

If we read bible, matt, mark, Luke john, a lot of repeatation story.

If the reason not enough ink, ink savings, why not delete the story that already in Matthew from mark ets.

So they have enough ink to wrote Mary is queen of heaven.

The fact that Mary as queen of heaven and able to hear billion catholic pray to her, not in the Bible is because she is not queen of heaven and not able to hear billions pray to her.

How ignorant is bible writer if not wrote the fact that pray to Mary will keep out a lot of trouble. If it is.

James 4:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Let it apply to this topic

Therefore to Him that know th that pray to Mary help and not wrote to him it is sin.

If apostle know pray to Mary help and not wrote in the Bible, to them it is sin.

I do not think apostle make this major mistake

Instead, I do believe catholic lie
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
7,392
434
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#42
I really don't understand the fascination about the flaws of the Catholic Church. Let's give some focus on the other denominations as well. It's as if some members feel threatened by this church.
The Catholic church is the only one that does it outwardly, boastfully, venerating (worshipping the flesh) of men for the work of Christ.

Its not the church "flesh and blood" that is the problem .But the idea that the Catholic doctrines as oral tradition of men. They do despite to the grace of God, as a damnable heresy, a word from where we get the word sect or opinions of a group of men.

They are the only sect I know that teaches Christ gives a unknow of amount of grace (a remnant) to all except for this Mary that they call the queen of Heaven. She according to Catholicism received the fullness of His grace (alone). Others again receive a unknown amount and must work suffering after they leave this realm under the sun, to fulfill a unknow amount of work as to a unknow degree of suffering in a place called purgatory, unknow in the scriptures .

Jesus, to the fullness of His grace alone, according to His work of faith, as a labor of His love alone. Do not leave earth without it .

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

No limbo in between. Either we beleive according to His work of faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure or we seek our own pleasure, called purgatory . A righteousness imputed to Christ sufferings alone, or a self righteousness imputed to the flesh .

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he Nin the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
7,392
434
83
#43
Amen. Let me ask you this, Our Lord suggests that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. If this is the case then how does this happen and where does this take place?
God's word infallibly informs us neither in the world to come . No suggestion of sins forgiven in the world to come . Sin has no place in the world to come.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
6,842
1,141
113
#44
I really don't understand the fascination about the flaws of the Catholic Church. Let's give some focus on the other denominations as well. It's as if some members feel threatened by this church.
Well it was jameen (evidently a Roman Catholic) who posted the OP so he is the one *fascinated* with his church and want to let the world know how wonderful it is.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
24,852
3,265
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Florida
#45
Well it was jameen (evidently a Roman Catholic) who posted the OP so he is the one *fascinated* with his church and want to let the world know how wonderful it is.
How right you are my good man. :)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
6,120
266
83
#46
Anyone can refute the verses quoted and explain why it is incorrect to use those verses to justify a Catholic teaching.

View attachment 186175
About oral tradition you give this verse. I do not know if delivered always mean oral. Paul wrote a letter as well. Yes oral or written doctrine by Paul are inspire by Holy Spirit and consistence, not oppose each other. Now we have written teaching. And I do believe that is enough,

My question is wich of catholic teaching come from apostle oral teaching and how you prove it?



1 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
6,120
266
83
#47
Anyone can refute the verses quoted and explain why it is incorrect to use those verses to justify a Catholic teaching.

View attachment 186175
Faith alone

I think there is a lot of discussion in this topic. Catholic misunderstood what is the definition of faith. Some people think faith in Jesus only mean believe that Jesus is God.

It is more than that. Faith in Jesus mean invite Jesus to be our leader, to let Him drives our life. Holy Spirit will be the King in all our decisions. It will produce good work, loving work.

Salvation is by faith alone, but there is correlation between faith and work.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
7,392
434
83
#48
About oral tradition you give this verse. I do not know if delivered always mean oral. Paul wrote a letter as well. Yes oral or written doctrine by Paul are inspire by Holy Spirit and consistence, not oppose each other. Now we have written teaching. And I do believe that is enough,

My question is wich of catholic teaching come from apostle oral teaching and how you prove it?



1 Corinthians 11:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
The oral tradition that is of God it becomes the written tradition . No difference between the two. The written confirms the oral tradition .

It's the oral tradition of men as commands of men that do make the written tradition of God to no effect. No man can serve two teaching masters. The thing of God and those of men . It becomes where are the doctrine of God inspired from, earthy of the devil as the book of James informs us , or do they fall from heaven like rain or dew used in parables to signify the work of the Holy Spirit, by hiding the spiritual understanding from those who seek after the things of men ?

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

You could say Peter tried to prove it by starting a oral tradition of men as a rumor because of his jealously for John. Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy in respect the the Son of man seen over and over.

Why the Catholics choose Peter and not John or one of the other disciples makes me wonder who was really behind it .

Jesus corrected the lie and said if every time he dispelled a lying rumor as a oral tradition of men and it was written down, the world would not be able to contain the book that could be written.

The Catholic us that same portion to protect the oral tradition of men that do make the word of God without effect.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. AmenJOIhn21:19-25
.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
7,392
434
83
#49
Faith alone

I think there is a lot of discussion in this topic. Catholic misunderstood what is the definition of faith. Some people think faith in Jesus only mean believe that Jesus is God.

It is more than that. Faith in Jesus mean invite Jesus to be our leader, to let Him drives our life. Holy Spirit will be the King in all our decisions. It will produce good work, loving work.

Salvation is by faith alone, but there is correlation between faith and work.
Yes there is a correlation. Christ's work of faith as a labor of His love alone .Faith is a work. It provides the grace of God, coming from the work of God as the work which works in us to both will, as the food of God that the disciples knew not of, and do His good pleasure as we work with Him (imputed righteousness). Faith is the gift, not of ourselves.

He will not forget the work we showed towards him, yoked with Him, and again of Him.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#51
God's word infallibly informs us neither in the world to come . No suggestion of sins forgiven in the world to come . Sin has no place in the world to come.
But by saying what He said He is suggesting that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. If this is the case then How does this happen and where does this take place? The only answer is Purgatory.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
329
101
28
#52
Do you believe in soul sleep? This is a JW concept and it is not found in the Scripture.
Several churches believe in soul sleep. It comes from the several verses but esp. the OT verse that says, "the dead know nothing." Properly interpreted that verse means 'there is no memory'...of our former life after we die.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
14
18
#53
If I believed HALF the lies on this thread about the Catholic Church, I would hate her TWICE as much.

Jamees is a beginner and English is a second language. I agree with his content, but not his style. Flooding with off topic misrepresentations is not fair. Standard anti-Catholic replies often goes in 15 directions at once, and his tactic is the same and it doesn't work.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
14
18
#54
The Catholic church is the only one that does it outwardly, boastfully, venerating (worshipping the flesh) of men for the work of Christ.

Its not the church "flesh and blood" that is the problem .But the idea that the Catholic doctrines as oral tradition of men. They do despite to the grace of God, as a damnable heresy, a word from where we get the word sect or opinions of a group of men.

They are the only sect I know that teaches Christ gives a unknow of amount of grace (a remnant) to all except for this Mary that they call the queen of Heaven. She according to Catholicism received the fullness of His grace (alone). Others again receive a unknown amount and must work suffering after they leave this realm under the sun, to fulfill a unknow amount of work as to a unknow degree of suffering in a place called purgatory, unknow in the scriptures .

Jesus, to the fullness of His grace alone, according to His work of faith, as a labor of His love alone. Do not leave earth without it .

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

No limbo in between. Either we beleive according to His work of faith that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure or we seek our own pleasure, called purgatory . A righteousness imputed to Christ sufferings alone, or a self righteousness imputed to the flesh .

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he Nin the name of the only begotten Son of God.
This is senseless bashing and your self acclaimed expertise on the above topics is based on ignorance and prejudice. None of your straw man arguments has any basis in reality. Learn from Catholic sources, not from anti-Catholic bigots.
 
Aug 8, 2018
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#56
I don't think you are suppose to do this here on CC.

Could be wrong..........but, you may find this Thread does not last long
Why can't you do this? Fear not what you should say for it is not you who speaks but the Holy Spirit, I think it even says that on the excerpt used in the thread. Censorship fears when an agenda cannot stand up to truth. It is this kind of thing which brings about what is what.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
14
18
#57
Change the meaning of "Tradition" into something dirty, then ridicule it. A classic anti-Catholic straw man fallacy.

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord's command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

- orally "by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit";33

- in writing "by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing".34
CCC 76-80 for more context.
footnotes:
33 DV 7.
34 DV 7.
35 DV 7 § 2; St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3,3,1:pG 7/1,848; Harvey,2,9.
36 DV 8 § 1.
37 DV 8 § 1.
38 DV 8 § 3.
39 DV 8 § 3; cf. Col 3:16.
40 DV 9.
41 Mt 28:20.

DV means Dei Verbum . It's about the Bible. Unless you are a speed reader I recommend starting at paragraph 10. Paragraph 12 gives guidelines (not commands) on exegesis of scripture.

Who in their right mind is going to bash and ridicule the words of the Apostles??? That's what Catholics mean by Tradition, anti-Catholics force it to mean something else.

Here is another definition of Tradition:

"...one might also loosely define tradition as the authoritative and authentic Christian history of theological doctrines and devotional practices. Christianity, like Judaism before it, is fundamentally grounded in history: in the earth-shattering historical events in the life of Jesus Christ (the incarnation, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, etc.).

Eyewitnesses (Lk 1:1-2, Acts 1:1-3, 2 Pet 1:16-18) communicated these true stories to the first Christians, who in turn passed them on to other Christians (under the guidance of the Church’s authority) down through the ages. Therefore, Christian tradition, defined as authentic Church history, is unavoidable.
“Tradition” Isn’t a Dirty Word

The anti-Catholic will ALWAYS point out the bad traditions, as if that covers all the good traditions Paul tells us to keep. What will the prejudiced unteachable basher do now???
Ignore all this and bash tradition again tomorrow.
 
Aug 8, 2018
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#58
Since Christians have direct access to Christ, the Catholic teaching about praying to and praying through saints is false.

And what you failed to mention is that Catholics actually petition Mary as though she God. The Salve Regina is a very clear example, but of course you would never admit that Catholics worship Mary.

Hail, holy Queen
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee to we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.


Notice:
1. Mary is called "holy Queen" which has no basis in Scripture.
2. Catholics are crying to Mary not to Christ.
3. Mary is called "most gracious advocate" whereas there is only ONE Mediator and Advocate between God and men -- the Man Christ Jesus.
4. Mary is called "Mother of God" whereas the eternal Godhead has no mother or father.

So what we have here is serious blasphemy, not praying to the saints and Mary.
Well let's break this down . Hail= Greeting. Holy Queen , hmmm is Christ a king? Throughout all scripture every King has a queen mother David himself that is one example among many. It is late where I am I will do a surface break down, another time I'll detail.
Mother of Mercy= well she is his mother and He is mercy, now here's where you learn to read the meaning of Mercy Christ, is who is our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry =to mercy, poor banished children of Eve- this is a sinners prayer and is why it states poor banished children of Eve. We send up our sigh's mourning and weeping in this valley of tears still to mercy. Now here- Turn then most gracious advocate, well gracious means full of grace to be highly favored as the angel Gabriel said would be- to be full of grace . Grace is what saves.
Moving on: is she an advocate? Well what does advocate mean?
ad·vo·cate
noun
noun: advocate; plural noun: advocates
ˈadvəkət/
  1. 1.
    a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
    "he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"
    synonyms:champion, upholder, supporter, backer, promoter, proponent, exponent, spokesman, spokeswoman, spokesperson, campaigner, fighter, crusader; More
    propagandist, apostle, apologist, booster, flag-bearer;
    informallibber
    "an advocate of children's rights"

    antonyms:critic
    • a person who pleads on someone else's behalf.
      "care managers can become advocates for their clients"
    • a pleader in a court of law; a lawyer.
      "Marshall was a skilled advocate but a mediocre judge"
verb
verb: advocate; 3rd person present: advocates; past tense: advocated; past participle: advocated; gerund or present participle: advocating
ˈadvəˌkāt/
  1. 1.
    publicly recommend or support.
Well she has publicly throughout scripture recommended listening to her son 1 among many (THE WEDDING FEAST AT CANAAN "do what He tells you" ) what other cause would she champion?
I am an advocate to champion the cause of Christ all followers are. We are called to show mercy(turn your eyes of mercy toward us) to all especially sinners she would be called to this first since she is Christ's first work in Christianity. After this =after receiving mercy then our exile from sin like the Hebrews out of Egypt. Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb -spiritual, and concerning Rev12. and what Elizabeth said = "blessed is the fruit of your womb" who is that =Jesus. o'clement (she is) O loving (she is) O' sweet Virgin Mary(she is perpetually spiritually virginal ) true. And it is asked that she pray for us, she does as do all in heaven who are given a reign in Christ where else do we as overcomers reign? Where do we get iron scepters and crowns and thrones? This is in heaven who do we reign over ? The church on earth and Mary and the apostles and all saints do because Christ said so. As for mother of God you statement lacks faith , why because if you believe in Christ and know anything about scripture you know He is God . Well since you do not believe in a reign for saints then you miss out for sure.
Matthew 19:
27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
AND EVERYONE WHO HAS LEFT HOUSES AND BROTHERS OR SISTERS FATHER OR WIFE OR CHILDREN ex....... will receive a hundredfold
and inherit eternal life. She is receiving her reward for her work on earth. Let the dead bury the dead (your teaching)and those who reject the saints. My family who have inherited eternal life I 'll go with for they are in Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
6,120
266
83
#59
Change the meaning of "Tradition" into something dirty, then ridicule it. A classic anti-Catholic straw man fallacy.

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord's command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

- orally "by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit";33

- in writing "by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing".34
CCC 76-80 for more context.
footnotes:
33 DV 7.
34 DV 7.
35 DV 7 § 2; St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3,3,1:pG 7/1,848; Harvey,2,9.
36 DV 8 § 1.
37 DV 8 § 1.
38 DV 8 § 3.
39 DV 8 § 3; cf. Col 3:16.
40 DV 9.
41 Mt 28:20.

DV means Dei Verbum . It's about the Bible. Unless you are a speed reader I recommend starting at paragraph 10. Paragraph 12 gives guidelines (not commands) on exegesis of scripture.

Who in their right mind is going to bash and ridicule the words of the Apostles??? That's what Catholics mean by Tradition, anti-Catholics force it to mean something else.

Here is another definition of Tradition:

"...one might also loosely define tradition as the authoritative and authentic Christian history of theological doctrines and devotional practices. Christianity, like Judaism before it, is fundamentally grounded in history: in the earth-shattering historical events in the life of Jesus Christ (the incarnation, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, etc.).

Eyewitnesses (Lk 1:1-2, Acts 1:1-3, 2 Pet 1:16-18) communicated these true stories to the first Christians, who in turn passed them on to other Christians (under the guidance of the Church’s authority) down through the ages. Therefore, Christian tradition, defined as authentic Church history, is unavoidable.
“Tradition” Isn’t a Dirty Word

The anti-Catholic will ALWAYS point out the bad traditions, as if that covers all the good traditions Paul tells us to keep. What will the prejudiced unteachable basher do now???
Ignore all this and bash tradition again tomorrow.
Oral must concistance with writing.

Catholic teaching and history are not inline with bible.

How you prove from the bible peter is the first pope in rome

Act 28 indicate PAul. Either you believe bible or catholic.

Either you accuse bible Lie or catholic Lie.

Why you believe in Lie?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
6,120
266
83
#60
Well let's break this down . Hail= Greeting. Holy Queen , hmmm is Christ a king? Throughout all scripture every King has a queen mother David himself that is one example among many. It is late where I am I will do a surface break down, another time I'll detail.
Mother of Mercy= well she is his mother and He is mercy, now here's where you learn to read the meaning of Mercy Christ, is who is our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry =to mercy, poor banished children of Eve- this is a sinners prayer and is why it states poor banished children of Eve. We send up our sigh's mourning and weeping in this valley of tears still to mercy. Now here- Turn then most gracious advocate, well gracious means full of grace to be highly favored as the angel Gabriel said would be- to be full of grace . Grace is what saves.
Moving on: is she an advocate? Well what does advocate mean?
ad·vo·cate
noun
noun: advocate; plural noun: advocates
ˈadvəkət/
  1. 1.
    a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
    "he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"
    synonyms:champion, upholder, supporter, backer, promoter, proponent, exponent, spokesman, spokeswoman, spokesperson, campaigner, fighter, crusader; More
    propagandist, apostle, apologist, booster, flag-bearer;
    informallibber
    "an advocate of children's rights"

    antonyms:critic
    • a person who pleads on someone else's behalf.
      "care managers can become advocates for their clients"
    • a pleader in a court of law; a lawyer.
      "Marshall was a skilled advocate but a mediocre judge"
verb
verb: advocate; 3rd person present: advocates; past tense: advocated; past participle: advocated; gerund or present participle: advocating
ˈadvəˌkāt/
  1. 1.
    publicly recommend or support.
Well she has publicly throughout scripture recommended listening to her son 1 among many (THE WEDDING FEAST AT CANAAN "do what He tells you" ) what other cause would she champion?
I am an advocate to champion the cause of Christ all followers are. We are called to show mercy(turn your eyes of mercy toward us) to all especially sinners she would be called to this first since she is Christ's first work in Christianity. After this =after receiving mercy then our exile from sin like the Hebrews out of Egypt. Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb -spiritual, and concerning Rev12. and what Elizabeth said = "blessed is the fruit of your womb" who is that =Jesus. o'clement (she is) O loving (she is) O' sweet Virgin Mary(she is perpetually spiritually virginal ) true. And it is asked that she pray for us, she does as do all in heaven who are given a reign in Christ where else do we as overcomers reign? Where do we get iron scepters and crowns and thrones? This is in heaven who do we reign over ? The church on earth and Mary and the apostles and all saints do because Christ said so. As for mother of God you statement lacks faith , why because if you believe in Christ and know anything about scripture you know He is God . Well since you do not believe in a reign for saints then you miss out for sure.
Matthew 19:
27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
AND EVERYONE WHO HAS LEFT HOUSES AND BROTHERS OR SISTERS FATHER OR WIFE OR CHILDREN ex....... will receive a hundredfold
and inherit eternal life. She is receiving her reward for her work on earth. Let the dead bury the dead (your teaching)and those who reject the saints. My family who have inherited eternal life I 'll go with for they are in Christ.
How do you know Mary soul able to hear a billion catholic, is she God?