Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson
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Jerry,
here is my final answer..
You're pretty brave behind that keyboard., hiding online.
Let me give you some advice, little man......Never think that God does not have a wrench to fit every carnal nut like you.
Never think that every carnal deceitful deed you commit against a Son of God is not going to bring you a harvest, that you dont expect.
See you there.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
I've never said that people are saved before they believe.
The issue here is WHO initiates Salvation? The reason this theology is strange to you is because you don't understand your bible.
This theology is not taught in mainline denominations because it doesn't tickle the ears of the hearers and therefore draw the masses to the Mega Churches and make the preachers at these Mega Churches rich and famous.
I know what I show from the bible sounds crazy. If the masses could see and understand what I show from the bible then the Lord wouldn't need to open eyes and ears. They could all just be saved by their preacher, who probably doesn't understand his bible either. And if he does, he definitely keeps it to himself. Who wants to get fired from a lucrative position for preaching Truth?
I've never said that people are saved before they believe.
The issue here is WHO initiates Salvation? The reason this theology is strange to you is because you don't understand your bible.
This theology is not taught in mainline denominations because it doesn't tickle the ears of the hearers and therefore draw the masses to the Mega Churches and make the preachers at these Mega Churches rich and famous.
I know what I show from the bible sounds crazy. If the masses could see and understand what I show from the bible then the Lord wouldn't need to open eyes and ears. They could all just be saved by their preacher, who probably doesn't understand his bible either. And if he does, he definitely keeps it to himself. Who wants to get fired from a lucrative position for preaching Truth?
You may well be right that Bruce was never born again. But your answer simply and clearly demonstrates my point. You make a judgment call on Bruce's salvation based upon his external works and actions.
Thus for myself, if I were to adopt your view of eternal security, I would need to be sure my outward works are kept in order, otherwise it would make my salvation questionable.
I much prefer to keep my assurance of salvation based upon my faith in Christ and not based upon my external actions.
Thus for myself, if I were to adopt your view of eternal security, I would need to be sure my outward works are kept in order, otherwise it would make my salvation questionable.
I much prefer to keep my assurance of salvation based upon my faith in Christ and not based upon my external actions.
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Your own words show that man has a free will. "What happened was the devil DECEIVED him into believing that there would be no consequences he is in effect saying "go ahead you may freely partake of the tree, you have freewill in the matter, you won't die" "
Your choice of words show that man has a free will. If a man is to be deceived then he must have the ability to make a choice. Actually when you write anything on here you are proving man has a free will. The only way you can avoid that conclusion is to say that God has dictated everything that you think and do.
You seem to have this strange view that man only has a free will when he doesn't go against a command of God. See the Ten Commandments (Exo 20:1 f) or what is called the Golden Rule. (Mat 22:37 f) unless you are the perfect man, which none of us are, then we freely violate these commands all the time. So by your logic when we do violate them it is because God determines it. Now you may argue and say that is not what I meant but that is the reality mans actions are either determined or he has free will it can not be both. Adam either had free will or God determined for him to sin, your choice.
Your choice of words show that man has a free will. If a man is to be deceived then he must have the ability to make a choice. Actually when you write anything on here you are proving man has a free will. The only way you can avoid that conclusion is to say that God has dictated everything that you think and do.
You seem to have this strange view that man only has a free will when he doesn't go against a command of God. See the Ten Commandments (Exo 20:1 f) or what is called the Golden Rule. (Mat 22:37 f) unless you are the perfect man, which none of us are, then we freely violate these commands all the time. So by your logic when we do violate them it is because God determines it. Now you may argue and say that is not what I meant but that is the reality mans actions are either determined or he has free will it can not be both. Adam either had free will or God determined for him to sin, your choice.
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what? talk about turning the thing inside out.
It is YOU who are depending upon your external actions for proof.
The proof I want is an actual work of grace done in the heart by God, a person can go to the front receive counsel, pray a prayer, but if that work has not been done he remains unsaved. But Christian workers will insist that he is.
It is YOU who are depending upon your external actions for proof.
The proof I want is an actual work of grace done in the heart by God, a person can go to the front receive counsel, pray a prayer, but if that work has not been done he remains unsaved. But Christian workers will insist that he is.
Your are quite confused between free will and consequences.
Every choice man makes comes with consequences. Therefore, consequences don't negate free will. That doesn't make sense.
Again, free will is nothing more or less that freedom of choice.
So, how would consequences negate freedom of choosing between options? Can you explain that?
If Adam wasn't free to eat that fruit, who made that choice?
Here is a scenario for you to digest.
If a strong man overpowered you and put a knife in your hand and held it there by his powerful grip and then plunged that knife into the chest of another person, killing him, who is the murderer?
Every choice man makes comes with consequences. Therefore, consequences don't negate free will. That doesn't make sense.
Again, free will is nothing more or less that freedom of choice.
So, how would consequences negate freedom of choosing between options? Can you explain that?
If Adam wasn't free to eat that fruit, who made that choice?
Here is a scenario for you to digest.
If a strong man overpowered you and put a knife in your hand and held it there by his powerful grip and then plunged that knife into the chest of another person, killing him, who is the murderer?
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The only proof possible would be Scripture stating this. And there isn't any. You want to claim God is the cause of man believing, but you have no proof. And you hide behind your very faulty understanding (misunderstanding, actually) of what free will even is.
Don't use this garbage as an excuse to deny free will. The only issue regarding salvation is whether the person put their faith alone in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, as the Son of God. If that occurs, they ARE saved, regardless of what follows.
Don't use this garbage as an excuse to deny free will. The only issue regarding salvation is whether the person put their faith alone in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, as the Son of God. If that occurs, they ARE saved, regardless of what follows.
Turning "the thing inside out"? -- No, I am actually just stating what I have learned and seen by experience. Belief in the man-made doctrine of "eternal security" militates against assurance of salvation. If you don't do enough good works, or if you do some bad works, then people will wonder if you are really saved! Better work harder, brother, to prove you really got saved!
Now how am I depending on my "external actions for proof"? My assurance is based 100% upon my belief in Jesus Christ and his all-sufficient atonement and resurrection. (But note that I am not depending on my decision - new birth - of 30 years ago: I am depending simply on the fact that today I am believing in Jesus Christ)
And amen that the grace of God does an actual work in the heart! PTL! The grace of God brings about a beauty, a relationship, and a love that is "out of this world" - Yes and amen!! PTL!
Now how am I depending on my "external actions for proof"? My assurance is based 100% upon my belief in Jesus Christ and his all-sufficient atonement and resurrection. (But note that I am not depending on my decision - new birth - of 30 years ago: I am depending simply on the fact that today I am believing in Jesus Christ)
And amen that the grace of God does an actual work in the heart! PTL! The grace of God brings about a beauty, a relationship, and a love that is "out of this world" - Yes and amen!! PTL!
The debate about free will is so frivolous as to be laughable at times. You, and I, and he, and she, and all others know very well that any one of us can choose and have a will that is able to choose.
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. It never has been, and never will be, by "faith alone". You take grace out of the equation, or you take Jesus out of the equation, and you will not have salvation. Salvation is not by "faith alone." (Unless there is a Scripture that states so?!)
Saved "regardless of what follows"? One is saved when one believes in Jesus Christ. The person who is not believing in Jesus Christ is not saved -- period! No believing in Jesus = no salvation. There is no way to believe in the man-made doctrine of eternal security without taking away free choice from the Christian.
Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. It never has been, and never will be, by "faith alone". You take grace out of the equation, or you take Jesus out of the equation, and you will not have salvation. Salvation is not by "faith alone." (Unless there is a Scripture that states so?!)
Saved "regardless of what follows"? One is saved when one believes in Jesus Christ. The person who is not believing in Jesus Christ is not saved -- period! No believing in Jesus = no salvation. There is no way to believe in the man-made doctrine of eternal security without taking away free choice from the Christian.