Blog post: Relax, Synergism Cant Hurt Anyone.

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zone

zone

Senior Member
#21
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#21
Bob DeWaay has some interesting stuff on the subject:

Synergism

The technical name of this theology is “synergism.” Those who teach synergism believe that salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man.

In my last article I discussed this and cited the Roman Catholic Council of Trent which teaches synergism.

Here is another citation of Trent from the Canons on Justification:

“If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed.” 6

Critical Issues Commentary: Recovering Reformation Theology < click
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#22
#22
Skinski7 said:
What you have done there is negate any conditions that must be adhered to on the part of man in order that reconciliation take place.

Justification and sanctification go hand in hand for the faith that God reckons as righteousness is a faith that sanctifies.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


God does not reckon a filthy vessel as righteous.
Click to expand...
justification and sanctification are two separate events...

justification is when you 'get saved'...when jesus' sacrifice covers your sins and God proclaims you righteous...i see nothing in there that -we- are responsible for...

sanctification is when the holy spirit leads us to live pure and holy lives -after- we have been declared righteous...it is how being declared righteous we go on to live as a righteous person should... we cooperate or resist that by either putting the flesh to death or indulging the flesh respectively...
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#23
#23
Abiding said:
Well to make justification synergistic past a accent to the gospel would be wrong.
To say that you popped out of a bubble believing without first hearing and believing in Jesus Christ would be just not true.
Yet i have heard those type of confessions, from monergists.
Click to expand...
well yes the only thing 'we do' in justification is to accept what has already been done...but even then it is only God's calling us with the gospel that gives us the ability to accept the gospel in the first place...theologians call that the 'efficacious calling'
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#24
#24
zone said:
Bob DeWaay has some interesting stuff on the subject:

Synergism

The technical name of this theology is “synergism.” Those who teach synergism believe that salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man.

In my last article I discussed this and cited the Roman Catholic Council of Trent which teaches synergism.

Here is another citation of Trent from the Canons on Justification:

“If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed.” 6

Critical Issues Commentary: Recovering Reformation Theology < click
Click to expand...
A horse has a tail.
A dog has a tail.
Therefore, all dogs are horses.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#26
#26
cfultz3 said:
A horse has a tail.
A dog has a tail.
Therefore, all dogs are horses.
Click to expand...
Catholic teaches synergism.
Those believing in freewill teach synergism.
If the Catholics accurses those who teaches otherwise,
then all who teach synergism must likewise accurse.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#28
#28
zone said:
Bob DeWaay has some interesting stuff on the subject:

Synergism

The technical name of this theology is “synergism.” Those who teach synergism believe that salvation is a cooperative effort between God and man.

In my last article I discussed this and cited the Roman Catholic Council of Trent which teaches synergism.

Here is another citation of Trent from the Canons on Justification:

“If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed.” 6

Critical Issues Commentary: Recovering Reformation Theology < click
Click to expand...
ty Kath,

that was a good read.....definitions are killing me. Anyway you know
prolly that Bob has always been one of my fav premiller teachers:p
tsssk:cool:
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#29
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
Abiding said:
ty Kath,

that was a good read.....definitions are killing me. Anyway you know
prolly that Bob has always been one of my fav premiller teachers:p
tsssk:cool:
Click to expand...
hi mike
Bob's definitions are killing you?

yes, it's unfortunate about the premil.
what can ya do, eh?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#30
#30
I'm allergic to synergism. It gibs me hibes and plugs my nobse. :(
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#32
#32
zone said:
hi mike
Bob's definitions are killing you?

yes, it's unfortunate about the premil.
what can ya do, eh?
Click to expand...

Killing my ego thats all. By "definition"......and there are many i find out there.
Im not a synergist:p. Aside from assenting to the gospel, which wouldnt seem
to be offerring anything as far as atonement or justification id have to be a monergist.
And even experiencially when i called on the Lord. It sure wasnt my idea.
I never asked those folks that had me over for dinner to tell me the gospel.
And i couldnt shake it.....even tho i tried. But i did give an assent one day...but
im not gona give a testimony...ha
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#33
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#33
Abiding said:
Killing my ego thats all. By "definition"......and there are many i find out there.
Im not a synergist:p. Aside from assenting to the gospel, which wouldnt seem
to be offerring anything as far as atonement or justification id have to be a monergist.
And even experiencially when i called on the Lord. It sure wasnt my idea.
I never asked those folks that had me over for dinner to tell me the gospel.
And i couldnt shake it.....even tho i tried. But i did give an assent one day...but
im not gona give a testimony...ha
Click to expand...
so now what?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#35
#35
Im still not convinced of limited atonement. BUT, this is whats strange about that.
I do believe only a true repentance will be accepted. And the bible says to pray
that God would perhaps permit someone repentance. So thats not a settled thing.

But its enough to realize that man cant assent either without Gods intervention.
So where does that lead? ha to at least some kind of limited atonement.

I hate to do it but im finding its a must do...to study more particularly
in the terms and language of reformed thinkers/believers. Because im seeing lately
that alot of my contention is not all in my beliefs although theres some there, but in
the language and terms.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#36
#36
zone said:
so now what?
Click to expand...
Well i spose keep picking on reformed folks till they tell
me what i need to hear. ha
Im sure lucky that im irresis:ptable.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#37
#37
But all jokes aside i dont care which side i end up on.
because ive honestly never picked a side yet.
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#38
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#38
RachelBibleStudent said:
justification and sanctification are two separate events...

justification is when you 'get saved'...when jesus' sacrifice covers your sins and God proclaims you righteous...i see nothing in there that -we- are responsible for...

sanctification is when the holy spirit leads us to live pure and holy lives -after- we have been declared righteous...it is how being declared righteous we go on to live as a righteous person should... we cooperate or resist that by either putting the flesh to death or indulging the flesh respectively...
Click to expand...
The blood of Christ opens the door to reconciliation but in and of itself it does not reconcile one to God because it has to be accessed through repentance and faith.

Which is why Paul says...

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

We approach God through repentance and faith, having laid aside our rebellion, in that we may abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The blood purges our consciences and thus once clean we can serve God acceptably having had all our past sins washed away.

Yielding to sin brings death. Yielding to Christ brings life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Any individual who has forsaken the service of sin and abides in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ is reckoned righteous by God, hence justified by faith.

Sanctification occurs at the same time in that we are "set apart unto holiness." Of course we grow more and more into the image of Christ as God continues to teach us and we correct that which we are ignorant about. Yet the heart has been purified.

Justification and Sanctification cannot be separated. They are two sides of the same coin. If one has not been sanctified (set apart unto holiness/a slave of righteous) then there is no way they can be justified.

Just because sanctification has an ongoing facet of growing purification as we learn more in no way supports the contention that one is justified in rebellion/saved in sin.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#39
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#39
Abiding said:
Im still not convinced of limited atonement. BUT, this is whats strange about that.
I do believe only a true repentance will be accepted. And the bible says to pray
that God would perhaps permit someone repentance. So thats not a settled thing.

But its enough to realize that man cant assent either without Gods intervention.
So where does that lead? ha to at least some kind of limited atonement.

I hate to do it but im finding its a must do...to study more particularly
in the terms and language of reformed thinkers/believers. Because im seeing lately
that alot of my contention is not all in my beliefs although theres some there, but in
the language and terms.
Click to expand...
okay.
but i'm not sure why you would do something you hate to do.
or, more precisely i guess....why you would hate it?

not knowing.
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#40
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#40
A Christian has been married to Christ in order they bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Which means one is a servant of righteousness having forsaken being a servant of sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

We die to sin in order walk in the Spirit.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Walking after the flesh and walking in the Spirit do not mix. To do so is to serve two masters which is impossible. To separate justification from sanctification is to imply that one can serve two masters.
 
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