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A
Because its hard work i rekon. Havnt needed to all my life. Ive never
experienced the division it causes before. But thats in the past.
But also not knowing the lasnguage and terms well, or seeing the reasons
these terms were made to represent, for example the historic events and
teaching they were directed at. I find myself not even understanding
how they could have possibly come from the bible.
Some have said they never studied anything but bible. But their big liars.
Most of what they teach is word for word out of the westminster confessions
and other works that id never studied...till lately. And it also takes understanding
the historical background to get it.
The reason i have to study it now is because its on my plate.
Where it will take me im not sure. But im not gona understand the language barrier
i see that i have till i do.
experienced the division it causes before. But thats in the past.
But also not knowing the lasnguage and terms well, or seeing the reasons
these terms were made to represent, for example the historic events and
teaching they were directed at. I find myself not even understanding
how they could have possibly come from the bible.
Some have said they never studied anything but bible. But their big liars.
Most of what they teach is word for word out of the westminster confessions
and other works that id never studied...till lately. And it also takes understanding
the historical background to get it.
The reason i have to study it now is because its on my plate.
Where it will take me im not sure. But im not gona understand the language barrier
i see that i have till i do.
R
i don't see this leading to limited atonement because i understand the call of the gospel as being universal...
God calls everyone with the gospel...including those who reject and remain unsaved...'many are called but few are chosen'
under the idea of the efficacious call...everyone being called with the gospel means everyone is granted the ability to accept the gospel...but the call of the gospel does not nullify the ability of the flesh to reject God...and many do reject God's call...
rejection of the gospel is not due to any kind of limited atonement that excludes certain people from salvation...but due to the sinful flesh still present even in those who are called and made able to accept...which permits them to exercise their will to reject...
i am convinced that the resolution of this whole issue of limited atonement and irresistible grace...the two unique doctrines of calvinism...is in a proper understanding of the efficacious call...
God calls everyone with the gospel...including those who reject and remain unsaved...'many are called but few are chosen'
under the idea of the efficacious call...everyone being called with the gospel means everyone is granted the ability to accept the gospel...but the call of the gospel does not nullify the ability of the flesh to reject God...and many do reject God's call...
rejection of the gospel is not due to any kind of limited atonement that excludes certain people from salvation...but due to the sinful flesh still present even in those who are called and made able to accept...which permits them to exercise their will to reject...
i am convinced that the resolution of this whole issue of limited atonement and irresistible grace...the two unique doctrines of calvinism...is in a proper understanding of the efficacious call...
i only know what you write mike.
which of late, seems to be changing with the weather.
don't know why. i think it's ultimately a good thing.
but yesterday (earlier today?) you were belittling monergists (calling them liars).
today you're calling ppl liars who say they read scripture
not sure why.
ppl agree with confessions and creeds mostly because they themselves agree that's what scripture says.
i dunno...why not hold off on the proclamations and stuff until you know...that's all i meant.
which of late, seems to be changing with the weather.
don't know why. i think it's ultimately a good thing.
but yesterday (earlier today?) you were belittling monergists (calling them liars).
By "definition"......and there are many i find out there.
Im not a synergist. Aside from assenting to the gospel, which wouldnt seem
to be offerring anything as far as atonement or justification id have to be a monergist.
And even experiencially when i called on the Lord. It sure wasnt my idea.
I never asked those folks that had me over for dinner to tell me the gospel.
And i couldnt shake it.....even tho i tried. But i did give an assent one day...but
im not gona give a testimony...ha
Im not a synergist
. Aside from assenting to the gospel, which wouldnt seemto be offerring anything as far as atonement or justification id have to be a monergist.
And even experiencially when i called on the Lord. It sure wasnt my idea.
I never asked those folks that had me over for dinner to tell me the gospel.
And i couldnt shake it.....even tho i tried. But i did give an assent one day...but
im not gona give a testimony...ha
not sure why.ppl agree with confessions and creeds mostly because they themselves agree that's what scripture says.
i dunno...why not hold off on the proclamations and stuff until you know...that's all i meant.
Ironically synergism is to a high extent based on philosophy and unscriptural assumptions of how God has to be and what He has to do. The many problems that this theory meets, for example that not every man without exception hears the gospel, is overlooked and some form of extrabiblical theory (such as various forms of prevenient grace or that all men have the light by natural birth) is given as answer. Christian faith all stands and falls with the doctrine of justification. Synergism in effect denies total depravity and places justification partly in the sinner, not in Christ alone. It conditions salvation on the work of the sinner (at least in the use of his would be "ability" to receive same) and not in the work of Christ alone. That's why no version of synergism understands the gospel.
Synergism (theology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <-link
Synergism (theology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <-link
A
i only know what you write mike.
which of late, seems to be changing with the weather.
don't know why. i think it's ultimately a good thing.
but yesterday (earlier today?) you were belittling monergists (calling them liars).
today you're calling ppl liars who say they read scripture not sure why.
ppl agree with confessions and creeds mostly because they themselves agree that's what scripture says.
i dunno...why not hold off on the proclamations and stuff until you know...that's all i meant.
which of late, seems to be changing with the weather.
don't know why. i think it's ultimately a good thing.
but yesterday (earlier today?) you were belittling monergists (calling them liars).
today you're calling ppl liars who say they read scripture
not sure why.ppl agree with confessions and creeds mostly because they themselves agree that's what scripture says.
i dunno...why not hold off on the proclamations and stuff until you know...that's all i meant.
bible and didnt study calvinism or other theology strictly bible. Then they quote from the westminster confessions.
That was my point. That i also have to get familiar with the same material if i want to understand certain
folks. And also quote from calvins institutes. Neither, do i reject. But it ticked me off that they lied. So it wasnt
an insult to any group of people but those who know they have said that only.
Also ill do as i please dear..and you can hold off on your responding to my proclamations if you dont mind.
wouldnt that be just as profitable? I do like the fact the threads give me a place to air my position and get
feedback from many..which helps me.
1
I think both sides can be guilty of Rob Belling this topic to death.
Rob Belling is when you conjecture what the Bible clearly teaches, with all these leading questions, that lead to implications that the human mind doesn't find palatable.
Then once you have a palate full of unpalatable things, you can spin a nice cushy belief system out of it, that has more to do with what man wants, and less to do with what the Bible clearly states.
Rob Belling is when you conjecture what the Bible clearly teaches, with all these leading questions, that lead to implications that the human mind doesn't find palatable.
Then once you have a palate full of unpalatable things, you can spin a nice cushy belief system out of it, that has more to do with what man wants, and less to do with what the Bible clearly states.
Monergist about justification and synergist about sanctification? Is that how we are to interpret your post #22? I find it impossible to chop up monergism into parts. Either one is "fully" monergist or one is not monergist at all. If one puts a condition to be fulfilled after regeneration or prior to same, it makes no difference in the end, since it is still a matter of condition to be met in man. Some will say that justification is unconditional while sanctification is conditional, man can loose his gift if not maintained and held onto well enough. It all lands in the same place: conditionalism. And that's what marks out the very definition of synergism: the condition for man's salvation is on man himself. Condition is hereby confused with fruit.