Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I took you off ignore long enough to say this- how can anyone " prove these truths wrong " when you pluck verses out of context, write in your own commentary, and call it truth??

if you are going to just make the Word say whatever you want, buy these methods, you will always be " right " and everyone else will be wrong.

you know what the talmid says about Jesus, because it clearly states it. why can you not carry that same thought process into the Book about Him?
So what part is wrong? Is it what the Bible says the New Covenant is? Is it what the Bible says about the Priesthood? It seems I am only speaking against your ancient religious traditions, not what the Whole Bible teaches. If you can show otherwise please do.


I'm still waiting for you to tell me why the Pope if a false preacher and why the Catholic doctrine is a false doctrine. This will explain a lot.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Jesus fulfills the law in all of us, not us. We are not under the law, but we are expected to at least obey Him.

How can anyone obey Him if they do not know what He teaches?
i assumed you not kill sabbath violator, is that mean you teach against the law of God?

your question: " how can anyone obey Him if they do not know what He teach?" Remind me to loveGodforever. He repeated this question again and again.

Seem to me with this question you want to tell others that SDA know the teaching of Jesus, and it is observe Saturday sabbath but not kill violator. Am I correct? It this what you mean by know His teaching?

if one not observe Saturday sabbath you call him teach again God, because it is in the stone, but if one not kill sabbath violator you call it teach the will of God.

kill sabbath violator is also the written instruction of God. What is the different?

is that because written on the animal skin, make it not from God?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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What are you talking about? You have just shown Grandpa and the Hebrews quote to be correct.
You only say this because you don't separate the Priesthood and it's duties from the rest of God's Instructions for the people. The Hebrews author, Paul, Jesus, Peter, Moses, and the entire Bible understands and separates them. But you don't, and neither does GP.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,688
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We are all condemned by the law until we come to Jesus believing and in repentance. Then we are redeemed from the law.

Those who do not come to Christ for forgiveness of sins are still under the law.
I don't think it is accurate to preach that Jesus freed us from God's Instructions, rather, He freed us from the death our rebellion caused us so we can repent and start anew.

Men's religious traditions have transgressed God's Commandments since Cain. Men have also used God's Words to justify their religious traditions since Eve listened to the serpent.

I don't believe the preaching that Jesus came to save us from God's Laws. But many people do.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,643
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I don't think it is accurate to preach that Jesus freed us from God's Instructions, rather, He freed us from the death our rebellion caused us so we can repent and start anew.

Men's religious traditions have transgressed God's Commandments since Cain. Men have also used God's Words to justify their religious traditions since Eve listened to the serpent.

I don't believe the preaching that Jesus came to save us from God's Laws. But many people do.
Instead of the OT laws that condemn, Jesus gave us new laws that we CAN keep if we have a mind to.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
Jesus Christ is all of the Word......He does not lie.

Psa 119:1 Aleph. Blessed are they that are perfect in the way, Who walk in the law of Jehovah.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, That seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 Yea, they do no unrighteousness; They walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us thy precepts, That we should observe them diligently.
Psa 119:5 Oh that my ways were established To observe thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be put to shame, When I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:7 I will give thanks unto thee with uprightness of heart, When I learn thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will observe thy statutes: Oh forsake me not utterly.
Psa 119:9 Beth. Wherewith shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: Oh let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I laid up in my heart, That I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O Jehovah: Teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared All the ordinances of thy mouth.
Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, As much as in all riches.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate on thy precepts, And have respect unto thy ways.
Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
Psa 119:17 Gimel. Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live; So will I observe thy word.
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold Wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a sojourner in the earth: Hide not thy commandments from me.
Psa 119:20 My soul breaketh for the longing That it hath unto thine ordinances at all times.
Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, That do wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:22 Take away from me reproach and contempt; For I have kept thy testimonies.
Psa 119:23 Princes also sat and talked against me; But thy servant did meditate on thy statutes.
Psa 119:24 Thy testimonies also are my delight And my counsellors.
Psa 119:25 Daleth. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: Quicken thou me according to thy word.
Psa 119:26 I declared my ways, and thou answeredst me: Teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: So shall I meditate on thy wondrous works.
Psa 119:28 My soul melteth for heaviness: Strengthen thou me according unto thy word.
Psa 119:29 Remove from me the way of falsehood; And grant me thy law graciously.
Psa 119:30 I have chosen the way of faithfulness: Thine ordinances have I set before me.
Psa 119:31 I cleave unto thy testimonies: O Jehovah, put me not to shame.
Psa 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, When thou shalt enlarge my heart.
Psa 119:33 He. Teach me, O Jehovah, the way of thy statutes; And I shall keep it unto the end.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; Yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; For therein do I delight.
Psa 119:36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, And not to covetousness.
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity, And quicken me in thy ways.
Psa 119:38 Confirm unto thy servant thy word, Which is in order unto the fear of thee.
Psa 119:39 Turn away my reproach whereof I am afraid; For thine ordinances are good.
Psa 119:40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: Quicken me in thy righteousness.
Psa 119:41 Vav. Let thy lovingkindnesses also come unto me, O Jehovah, Even thy salvation, according to thy word.
Psa 119:42 So shall I have an answer for him that reproacheth me; For I trust in thy word.
Psa 119:43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; For I have hoped in thine ordinances.
Psa 119:44 So shall I observe thy law continually For ever and ever.
Psa 119:45 And I shall walk at liberty; For I have sought thy precepts.
Psa 119:46 I will also speak of thy testimonies before kings, And shall not be put to shame.
Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, Which I have loved.
Psa 119:48 I will lift up my hands also unto thy commandments, which I have loved; And I will meditate on thy statutes.
Psa 119:49 Zayin. Remember the word unto thy servant, Because thou hast made me to hope.
Psa 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction; For thy word hath quickened me.
Psa 119:51 The proud have had me greatly in derision: Yet have I not swerved from thy law.
Psa 119:52 I have remembered thine ordinances of old, O Jehovah, And have comforted myself.
Psa 119:53 Hot indignation hath taken hold upon me, Because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
Psa 119:54 Thy statutes have been my songs In the house of my pilgrimage.
Psa 119:55 I have remembered thy name, O Jehovah, in the night, And have observed thy law.
Psa 119:56 This I have had, Because I have kept thy precepts.
Psa 119:57 Heth. Jehovah is my portion: I have said that I would observe thy words.
Psa 119:58 I entreated thy favor with my whole heart: Be merciful unto me according to thy word.
Psa 119:59 I thought on my ways, And turned my feet unto thy testimonies.
Psa 119:60 I made haste, and delayed not, To observe thy commandments.
Psa 119:61 The cords of the wicked have wrapped me round; But I have not forgotten thy law.
Psa 119:62 At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee Because of thy righteous ordinances.
Psa 119:63 I am a companion of all them that fear thee, And of them that observe thy precepts.
Psa 119:64 The earth, O Jehovah, is full of thy lovingkindness: Teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:65 Teth. Thou hast dealt well with thy servant, O Jehovah, according unto thy word.
Psa 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge; For I have believed in thy commandments.
Psa 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray; But now I observe thy word.
Psa 119:68 Thou art good, and doest good; Teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: With my whole heart will I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:70 Their heart is as fat as grease; But I delight in thy law.
Psa 119:71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted; That I may learn thy statutes.
Psa 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me Than thousands of gold and silver.
Psa 119:73 Yodh. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: Give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.
Psa 119:74 They that fear thee shall see me and be glad, Because I have hoped in thy word.
Psa 119:75 I know, O Jehovah, that thy judgments are righteous, And that in faithfulness thou hast afflicted me.
Psa 119:76 Let, I pray thee, thy lovingkindness be for my comfort, According to thy word unto thy servant.
Psa 119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live; For thy law is my delight.
Psa 119:78 Let the proud be put to shame; for they have overthrown me wrongfully: But I will meditate on thy precepts.
Psa 119:79 Let those that fear thee turn unto me; And they shall know thy testimonies.
Psa 119:80 Let my heart be perfect in thy statutes, That I be not put to shame.
Psa 119:81 Kaph. My soul fainteth for thy salvation; But I hope in thy word.
Psa 119:82 Mine eyes fail for thy word, While I say, When wilt thou comfort me?
Psa 119:83 For I am become like a wine-skin in the smoke; Yet do I not forget thy statutes.
Psa 119:84 How many are the days of thy servant? When wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?
Psa 119:85 The proud have digged pits for me, Who are not according to thy law.
Psa 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful: They persecute me wrongfully; Help thou me.
Psa 119:87 They had almost consumed me upon earth; But I forsook not thy precepts.
Psa 119:88 Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; So shall I observe the testimony of thy mouth.
Psa 119:89 Lamedh. For ever, O Jehovah, Thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: Thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
Psa 119:91 They abide this day according to thine ordinances; For all things are thy servants.
Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delight, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts; For with them thou hast quickened me.
Psa 119:94 I am thine, save me; For I have sought thy precepts.
Psa 119:95 The wicked have waited for me, to destroy me; But I will consider thy testimonies.
Psa 119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection; But thy commandment is exceeding broad.
Psa 119:97 Mem. Oh how love I thy law! It is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98 Thy commandments make me wiser than mine enemies; For they are ever with me.
Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers; For thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have kept thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, That I might observe thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not turned aside from thine ordinances; For thou hast taught me.
Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! Yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: Therefore I hate every false way.
Psa 119:105 Nun. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, And light unto my path.
Psa 119:106 I have sworn, and have confirmed it, That I will observe thy righteous ordinances.
Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much: Quicken me, O Jehovah, according unto thy word.
Psa 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill-offerings of my mouth, O Jehovah, And teach me thine ordinances.
Psa 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand; Yet do I not forget thy law.
Psa 119:110 The wicked have laid a snare for me; Yet have I not gone astray from thy precepts.
Psa 119:111 Thy testimonies have I taken as a heritage for ever; For they are the rejoicing of my heart.
Psa 119:112 I have inclined my heart to perform thy statutes For ever, even unto the end.
Psa 119:113 Samekh. I hate them that are of a double mind; But thy law do I love.
Psa 119:114 Thou art my hiding-place and my shield: I hope in thy word.
Psa 119:115 Depart from me, ye evil-doers, That I may keep the commandments of my God.
Psa 119:116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live; And let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Psa 119:117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe, And shall have respect unto thy statutes continually.
Psa 119:118 Thou hast set at nought all them that err from thy statutes; For their deceit is falsehood.
Psa 119:119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: Therefore I love thy testimonies.
Psa 119:120 My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; And I am afraid of thy judgments.
Psa 119:121 Ayin. I have done justice and righteousness: Leave me not to mine oppressors.
Psa 119:122 Be surety for thy servant for good: Let not the proud oppress me.
Psa 119:123 Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, And for thy righteous word.
Psa 119:124 Deal with thy servant according unto thy lovingkindness, And teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:125 I am thy servant; Give me understanding, That I may know thy testimonies.
Psa 119:126 It is time for Jehovah to work; For they have made void thy law.
Psa 119:127 Therefore I love thy commandments Above gold, yea, above fine gold.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; And I hate every false way.
Psa 119:129 Pe. Thy testimonies are wonderful; Therefore doth my soul keep them.
Psa 119:130 The opening of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple.
Psa 119:131 I opened wide my mouth, and panted; For I longed for thy commandments.
Psa 119:132 Turn thee unto me, and have mercy upon me, As thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.
Psa 119:133 Establish my footsteps in thy word; And let not any iniquity have dominion over me.
Psa 119:134 Redeem me from the oppression of man: So will I observe thy precepts.
Psa 119:135 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; And teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:136 Streams of water run down mine eyes, Because they observe not thy law.
Psa 119:137 Tsadhe. Righteous art thou, O Jehovah, And upright are thy judgments.
Psa 119:138 Thou hast commanded thy testimonies in righteousness And very faithfulness.
Psa 119:139 My zeal hath consumed me, Because mine adversaries have forgotten thy words.
Psa 119:140 Thy word is very pure; Therefore thy servant loveth it.
Psa 119:141 I am small and despised; Yet do I not forget thy precepts.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And thy law is truth.
Psa 119:143 Trouble and anguish have taken hold on me; Yet thy commandments are my delight.
Psa 119:144 Thy testimonies are righteous for ever: Give me understanding, and I shall live.
Psa 119:145 Qoph. I have called with my whole heart; answer me, O Jehovah: I will keep thy statutes.
Psa 119:146 I have called unto thee; Save me, And I shall observe thy testimonies.
Psa 119:147 I anticipated the dawning of the morning, and cried: I hoped in thy words.
Psa 119:148 Mine eyes anticipated the night-watches, That I might meditate on thy word.
Psa 119:149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: Quicken me, O Jehovah, according to thine ordinances.
Psa 119:150 They draw nigh that follow after wickedness; They are far from thy law.
Psa 119:151 Thou art nigh, O Jehovah; And all thy commandments are truth.
Psa 119:152 Of old have I known from thy testimonies, That thou hast founded them for ever.
Psa 119:153 Resh. Consider mine affliction, and deliver me; For I do not forget thy law.
Psa 119:154 Plead thou my cause, and redeem me: Quicken me according to thy word.
Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked; For they seek not thy statutes.
Psa 119:156 Great are thy tender mercies, O Jehovah: Quicken me according to thine ordinances.
Psa 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine adversaries; Yet have I not swerved from thy testimonies.
Psa 119:158 I beheld the treacherous, and was grieved, Because they observe not thy word.
Psa 119:159 Consider how I love thy precepts: Quicken me, O Jehovah, according to thy lovingkindness.
Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.
Psa 119:161 Shin. Princes have persecuted me without a cause; But my heart standeth in awe of thy words.
Psa 119:162 I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil.
Psa 119:163 I hate and abhor falsehood; But thy law do I love.
Psa 119:164 Seven times a day do I praise thee, Because of thy righteous ordinances.
Psa 119:165 Great peace have they that love thy law; And they have no occasion of stumbling.
Psa 119:166 I have hoped for thy salvation, O Jehovah, And have done thy commandments.
Psa 119:167 My soul hath observed thy testimonies; And I love them exceedingly.
Psa 119:168 I have observed thy precepts and thy testimonies; For all my ways are before thee.
Psa 119:169 Tav. Let my cry come near before thee, O Jehovah: Give me understanding according to thy word.
Psa 119:170 Let my supplication come before thee: Deliver me according to thy word.
Psa 119:171 Let my lips utter praise; For thou teachest me thy statutes.
Psa 119:172 Let my tongue sing of thy word; For all thy commandments are righteousness.
Psa 119:173 Let thy hand be ready to help me; For I have chosen thy precepts.
Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O Jehovah; And thy law is my delight.
Psa 119:175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; And let thine ordinances help me.
Psa 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; For I do not forget thy commandments.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
2,643
90
48
Jesus Christ is all of the Word......He does not lie.

Psa 119:1 Aleph. Blessed are they that are perfect in the way, Who walk in the law of Jehovah.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, That seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 Yea, they do no unrighteousness; They walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us thy precepts, That we should observe them diligently.
Psa 119:5 Oh that my ways were established To observe thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be put to shame, When I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:7 I will give thanks unto thee with uprightness of heart, When I learn thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will observe thy statutes: Oh forsake me not utterly.
I wish the one who wrote the Psalm was on this forum. Who do you think wrote it JaumeJ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,929
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You only say this because you don't separate the Priesthood and it's duties from the rest of God's Instructions for the people.
if the people you are talking to are a priesthood, wouldn't it be quite the error to think to separate God's instruction in this way?
((i.e. think to remove a certain subset of jots and tittles))

But ye are
a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now
the people of God:
which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)


 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Instead of the OT laws that condemn, Jesus gave us new laws that we CAN keep if we have a mind to.
This is ignoring what is going to happen whenthe Messiah returns.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into thefiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

[/FONT]


and it's the same Law, Messiah simply explained it the proper way.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,929
1,420
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I don't think it is accurate to preach that Jesus freed us from God's Instructions, rather, He freed us from the death our rebellion caused us so we can repent and start anew.
i don't believe the gospel is "a second chance to be justified by works of the law" or "a way to become a pharisee without Levites"

I don't believe the preaching that Jesus came to save us from God's Laws. But many people do.
i believe that's at least as gross a mischaracterization of what many people actually believe as what i just wrote.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,688
232
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mailmandan;3539858]
You are not fooling me and if I wanted to listen to religious man then I would have remained a member of the Roman Catholic church and an unbeliever who was "religious" but not right with God.
I see very little difference between your religion and that of the Catholic church. You may have changed the name, but much of your preaching remains the same.

Just because Romans 1:17 says "the righteousness of God is revealed" and ends with "the just shall live by faith" and Habakkuk 2:4 says "the just shall live by faith" does not mean the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is preached in Habakkuk 2:4 and all throughout the Old Testament. Can you show me the word "Gospel" in the Old Testament? Only one spirit would want to pervert the Gospel and it isn't the Spirit of Christ (Galatians 1:6-9).
Can you show me one place in the Old Testament where the term "Old Testament" exists? I do not pervert the Gospel of Christ, I just don't believe in your gospel because you preach so many things that are false.

The "just shall live by faith" is true of all believers, but is not the specific "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel (Ephesians 3:6) that Paul preached. That is not preached in the Old Testament because it was still a mystery (Ephesians 3:1-9).
The preaching that the Messiah would be a lowly, unattractive common man, that would teach true Salvation to both the Jews and the Gentiles was first preached by the Word which became Flesh through His Prophets in what Paul taught is the Gospel of Christ. The teaching that He and His Words would be despised by religious man, and ridiculed and mocked and murdered by those who claimed to be God's Children was first taught by the Word which became Flesh through His Prophets of old.

Your preaching:
that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel (Ephesians 3:6) that Paul preached. That is not preached in the Old Testament because it was still a mystery
Is yet another example or your false gospel with it's false doctrines one right after another..

This is why I warn people against your religion MMD. Because it is your gospel, not the one Paul taught. For you to preach that the Word which became Flesh didn't teach about salvation for the Gentiles through the Law and Prophets is not true as the following scriptures clearly show.

Is. 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Is. 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Is. 54:2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Is. 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. (Resurrection)

Is. 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Jer. 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

You preach these Word's don't exist in the Law and Prophets. To the blind they don't.

Eph. 3:5 Which in other ages was not made knownunto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Gospel, Old Testament writings.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The Word which became Flesh teaches us that this mystery was revealed by the Spirit. It was there in the Gospel of Christ as the above scriptures clearly teach, but was not revealed to the "SONS OF MEN".

You are the perfect example of this. The scriptures I posted are in your Bible, you have read them over and over. But to this day you have not "seen" them. To the point that your are still preaching they are not there. Paul, before His Conversion, did not "SEE" them either. Because they were not revealed to him until his conversion.

But Zechariahs knew of this mystery.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

There were others who knew Him as well.

1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

You might ask yourself why did these wise men and Zechariahs know who Jesus was but the Pharisees that you preach were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws did not. Sadly most will just ignore the very relevant post and work to defend their own religious preaching, and save their own face, regardless of what the scriptures teach.

If you can't come to terms regarding your false preaching in this matter, there is no use commenting on your other words.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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i don't believe the gospel is "a second chance to be justified by works of the law" or "a way to become a pharisee without Levites"



i believe that's at least as gross a mischaracterization of what many people actually believe as what i just wrote.
ut if we are being realistic, anyone preaching that "the MOst High's Law is nailed to the cross, done away by Jesus sacrifice, or blotted out in any way" is indeed preaching something very close if not exactly what Studyman said. realistically if He came to abolish His Father;s Law then in practice that is what is happening. In It is not and did not but that is what most preach.
b
 

Ralph-

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Aug 10, 2017
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No.

James is teaching grace to the church, If you understood the law. You would understand this, But you can not comprehend the fact that as paul said

Rom 4: [SUP]15 [/SUP]because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
If you knew the law you'd know that James is in fact teaching the church to obey the law:


"believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?"-James 2:1-4

Here it is in the law:

"you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly."-Leviticus 19:15




He would be putting them under the condemnation of the law if he told them to keep these various laws in order to be justified (MADE righteous). But as it is, he is not doing it for that reason. He is explaining to them that showing no favoritism is HOW you keep the law 'love your neighbor as yourself'.


"8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[SUP]a[/SUP] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers."-James 2:8-9


See, the church thinks all you have to do is 'love your neighbor as yourself', not knowing that keeping the other laws, like the law forbidding favoritism, is how you do that. James is explaining that you aren't keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' if you are not keeping the law to not show favoritism. See, loving others UPHOLDS the law of Moses, not replaces or negates it as the church thinks.
 

Ralph-

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Aug 10, 2017
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ut if we are being realistic, anyone preaching that "the MOst High's Law is nailed to the cross, done away by Jesus sacrifice, or blotted out in any way" is indeed preaching something very close if not exactly what Studyman said. realistically if He came to abolish His Father;s Law then in practice that is what is happening. In It is not and did not but that is what most preach.
b
We have to be careful of terminology.

Christ really does abolish various laws. What he did not come to do is destroy any law.

Abolish simply means 'to set aside as obsolete and unneeded now'. Christ did indeed do that. The laws concerning the necessity to sacrifice an animal for the forgiveness of sin is the premier example of that. He did not destroy that law. He simply made it so it is not necessary to do those laws anymore. He made them obsolete--he nullified and abolished them, but he surely did not make it so they are destroyed and trampled down to the ground in defiant disobedience. That he did NOT come to do. He simply made them obsolete.


And in regard to rabbinical law. The people of God were indeed bound by rabbinical judgments concerning matters of the law (don't touch, don't taste, etc.). But what power do those judgments have now that the actual laws of Moses they address are now obsolete and not required to be done anymore? None, of course. And so these powers and authorities have been rendered powerless and unable to judge the people of God anymore in regard to the things in the law which the people of God no longer HAVE to do because their faith in Christ has accomplished perfectly and forever what those things sought to do.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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MMD continued;
The New Covenant is the replacement of the Old Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Who is trying to replace the entire old testament and why are you so in love with the old testament? Because it contains the law and you are seeking justification by the law? I have bad news for you if that's the case.
You have not even addressed the Jer. 31 promise and what it say the New Covenant is which is a change in the Priesthood, not God's Commandments for men, and Heb. 7 confirms that.. You must deflect and discredit, I expect nothing more.

Paul said a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Jesus said to beware the leaven of the Mainstream Religious preachers of His time.

We know you preach the Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God's Laws. The Scriptures prove this as false.

WE know you preach the Law and Prophets didn't teach about the Messiah bringing Salvation to the Gentiles. The Scriptures prove this false as well.

You preach the Gospel of Christ is not the Word's of the Law and Prophets which Paul said was written for our admonition. This too is proven false by the scriptures.

I know if I followed your worldly accepted religion with your worldly accepted High Days you created, with your worldly accepted images of your handsome Jesus and your worldly accepted doctrine which omits most of the Bible, I could fit in.

But then I think about the Gospel of Christ and all the Examples of Faith that He had written for us.

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus (The Word which became Flesh) the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

No MMD, you are welcome to your religion that the world accepts. I'm going to stick to the Word which became Flesh. I know this is not a popular "path" as history clearly shows.

I'm not perfect, but I know the Word which became Flesh knows more than me. I'll let Him guide my footsteps.




"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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Jesus did not teach the law.
Well, actually he did:

"27“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[SUP]e[/SUP] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."-Matthew 5:27

Here it is in the law:

"You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife"-Exodus 20:17



Yes, Christ fulfilled the law. He made it so that when God looks at you He sees perfect righteousness as if you had kept the law.

The problem is, the church thinks 'Christ fulfilled the law for us' means you now don't have to do what it says to do. Yes, some things you don't HAVE to do, but you do in fact have to do what the law says. We are to keep the law forbidding favoritism. We are to keep the law to not lust after our neighbor's wife. That is what 'love your neighbor as yourself does'. It upholds the law of Moses. It does not release you from it's requirements as so many think.




He taught mercy, love forgiveness, Serving people who hate you, loving your enemies.

The law does not teach those things.
Actually, it does teach those things...


mercy:

"12If the neighbor is poor, do not go to sleep with their pledge in your possession. 13Return their cloak by sunset so that your neighbor may sleep in it."-Deuteronomy 24:12


love:

"you shall love your neighbor as yourself"-Leviticus 19:18


forgiveness:

18‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people'-Leviticus 19:18


love and service for enemies:

4“If you come across your enemy’s ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to return it. 5If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help them with it."-Exodus 23:4-5




It was not given for purposes of showing us what God wanted, Only to place us under wrath so we may find christ when he came.
Well, now that we can see Jesus and the Apostles did in fact use the law to show us what God wants from us we know that the law is for more than just condemning us as sinners and in need of redemption as the church teaches.
 
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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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ut if we are being realistic, anyone preaching that "the MOst High's Law is nailed to the cross, done away by Jesus sacrifice, or blotted out in any way" is indeed preaching something very close if not exactly what Studyman said. realistically if He came to abolish His Father;s Law then in practice that is what is happening. In It is not and did not but that is what most preach.
b
how are we all realistically not continuously living in sin on account of failing to sew tzitzit on the hem of all our garments?
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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I know who is credited with penning it, however all of the Word is from Jesus Christ........all of it.

I wish the one who wrote the Psalm was on this forum. Who do you think wrote it JaumeJ?
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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if the people you are talking to are a priesthood, wouldn't it be quite the error to think to separate God's instruction in this way?
((i.e. think to remove a certain subset of jots and tittles))

But ye are
a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood,
an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now
the people of God:
which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)
Actually it is for this very reason that Jesus changed the Priesthood. No longer must I have a certain DNA as was instituted by God through Moses "till the Seed should Come". Now we all have access to the Priesthood if we have Faith in Him, (Not the image man created, but the WORD which became Flesh) as the scriptures teach. Our repentant life is in preparation for this Priesthood, as the Life of the Messiah was in preparation for His Priesthood.

Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;9 And being made perfect,(Through this obedience) he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Creating our own Path or our own laws, or High Days or Sabbaths have never been acceptable to God. Why you would believe doing such things now is acceptable seems foolish.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

There is a Path created by the Word which became Flesh that is acceptable to God, for us to "walk in". Some believe, but "MANY" who come in Christ's name do not.

It is this narrow Path that I strive to follow as did Jesus, Abel, Abraham, Ham's brothers, Caleb, Joshua, Rehab, Isaiah and all those mentioned in Hebrews 11.

As it is written;

Rom. 2:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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This is ignoring what is going to happen whenthe Messiah returns.

Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”



Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into thefiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."




and it's the same Law, Messiah simply explained it the proper way.

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
How many times does this need to be said. Jesus redeems the repentant believer who comes to Him, but the wicked are still under the law, as the scriptures you posted unequivocally say.

On the other side of the coin we read:-

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."(Rom 10:4 KJV)


"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come,we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:24-26 KJV)

Your religion is like a pantomime horse, you have the back end, but you are missing the front end where the brains are. At the head is the Lord. You have the shitty end. Stop riding the horse backwards. There is one place for the wicked under the law and there is a better place for the righteous under grace.