Body Of CHRIST "Does NOT" Go To Heaven?

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The parable of the Ten Virgins is a fine picture of the Rapture and the Wedding. Those who are ready go to a Marriage Feast, not a Tribulation. We, the Church, are not appointed to wrath.

Matthew
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.
25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1 Thessalonians
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Hi, oyster67.

No offense, but I honestly don't see how you think the parable of the 10 virgins supports a rapture to heaven.

I mean, the 5 foolish virgins went to buy oil, "and when they went to buy, the bridegroom came" (vs. 10).

If you believe that this coming of the bridegroom speaks of an alleged rapture to heaven for 7 years, then why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

In other words, wouldn't they have had enough time during that alleged 7-year period to buy their oil and be saved?

As far as Christians not being appointed to God's wrath is concerned, I totally agree with you on that point, BUT "the great tribulation" is actually a time of Satan's wrath:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This "short time" is only 3 1/2 years, and there's nothing in scripture that says Christians will avoid the same.

Granted, some will survive that timeframe, but many won't.

Furthermore, as far as God's wrath is concerned, I would ask you to prayerfully consider the following:

Revelation chapter 16

[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Between the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out in the last days, Jesus still hasn't "come as a thief" or "as a thief in the night".

In fact, he instructs his followers, who are Christians, to "watch" and "keep their garments".

Why is this significant?

Well, if we back up what you cited from I Thessalonians chapter 5 just a bit, then we read the following:

I Thessalonians chapter 5

[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

As Christians, we're supposed to be watching for the time when "the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night", and, again, Jesus hasn't yet come as the same during the timeframe of the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out upon this earth.

I trust that Jesus knows when he's actually coming, don't you?

 

[Absolutely]

Amen.

Furthermore, if people would actually read their Bibles, then they would realize that the verses which they claim teach about a "rapture" to heaven actually teach no such thing.

For example, we read:

I Thessalonians chapter 4

[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here, we see Jesus "coming" (vs. 15), or "descending from heaven" (vs. 16), and "them also which sleep" or have died "in Jesus will God bring with him" (vs. 14).

In other words, both Jesus and the dead in Christ are coming or descending FROM HEAVEN, and not going to heaven.

We also see how those "which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord", IN HIS DESCENT OR COMING, "in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord".

"Be with the Lord" where?

Right here on earth.

In other words, where does this portion of scripture mention the imaginary U-turn back to heaven?

The correct answer is nowhere because it's never happening.

Along these same lines, we read:

I Corinthians chapter 15

[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

It's the same exact scenario.

Here, first, "the dead in Christ" or those whom Jesus is bringing with him in his DESCENT FROM HEAVEN "shall be raised incorruptible", and then those who are alive and remain "shall be changed".

For what purpose?

To allegedly make a U-turn back to heaven for 7 years?

No, not at all.

Instead, for the exact purpose that Paul actually stated:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (I Cor. 15:50)

We need glorified bodies because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God", and the kingdom of God is coming to this earth, even as Jesus taught us to pray:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matt. 6:9-10)

Except rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife in heaven.
And rev 14 has the 144k in heaven as well as ripe fruit gathered a bit later TO HEAVEN. And those 2 events DURING the trib.

Then factor in the billions of horses on Jesus second coming.
Nowhere in the rapture verses is any room for the horses,Jesus coming in fire and power or any hint of war or a destroyed earth.
Also factor in the dialogue at the last supper.

All that MUST BE factored in.

Once that is on the table we see clearly the rapture can not be ANYTHING but pretrib and the church indeed in heaven during the trib as was noah in the 2 nd heaven over a mile above the earth DURING THE FLOOD.
NOAH had no rescue of any kind after the flood/ judgement.
Nor lot....no post judgement rescue.

 

[Absolutely]

Hi, oyster67.

No offense, but I honestly don't see how you think the parable of the 10 virgins supports a rapture to heaven.

I mean, the 5 foolish virgins went to buy oil, "and when they went to buy, the bridegroom came" (vs. 10).

If you believe that this coming of the bridegroom speaks of an alleged rapture to heaven for 7 years, then why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

In other words, wouldn't they have had enough time during that alleged 7-year period to buy their oil and be saved?

As far as Christians not being appointed to God's wrath is concerned, I totally agree with you on that point, BUT "the great tribulation" is actually a time of Satan's wrath:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This "short time" is only 3 1/2 years, and there's nothing in scripture that says Christians will avoid the same.

Granted, some will survive that timeframe, but many won't.

Furthermore, as far as God's wrath is concerned, I would ask you to prayerfully consider the following:

Revelation chapter 16

[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Between the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out in the last days, Jesus still hasn't "come as a thief" or "as a thief in the night".

In fact, he instructs his followers, who are Christians, to "watch" and "keep their garments".

Why is this significant?

Well, if we back up what you cited from I Thessalonians chapter 5 just a bit, then we read the following:

I Thessalonians chapter 5

[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

As Christians, we're supposed to be watching for the time when "the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night", and, again, Jesus hasn't yet come as the same during the timeframe of the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out upon this earth.

I trust that Jesus knows when he's actually coming, don't you?

You omitted the rapture verses and rev 14.

Also the 10 virgin parable has the church gathered as the 5 wise and the 5 foolish left behind as martyrs.
A vivid unmistakable pretrib rapture.
If you read the 7 letters to the seven churches you will see one of the escape verses. It has conditions.

The foolish end up in heaven early on in the trib as the innumerable number.

 

[Absolutely]

Hi, oyster67.

No offense, but I honestly don't see how you think the parable of the 10 virgins supports a rapture to heaven.

I mean, the 5 foolish virgins went to buy oil, "and when they went to buy, the bridegroom came" (vs. 10).

If you believe that this coming of the bridegroom speaks of an alleged rapture to heaven for 7 years, then why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

In other words, wouldn't they have had enough time during that alleged 7-year period to buy their oil and be saved?

As far as Christians not being appointed to God's wrath is concerned, I totally agree with you on that point, BUT "the great tribulation" is actually a time of Satan's wrath:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This "short time" is only 3 1/2 years, and there's nothing in scripture that says Christians will avoid the same.

Granted, some will survive that timeframe, but many won't.

Furthermore, as far as God's wrath is concerned, I would ask you to prayerfully consider the following:

Revelation chapter 16

[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Between the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out in the last days, Jesus still hasn't "come as a thief" or "as a thief in the night".

In fact, he instructs his followers, who are Christians, to "watch" and "keep their garments".

Why is this significant?

Well, if we back up what you cited from I Thessalonians chapter 5 just a bit, then we read the following:

I Thessalonians chapter 5

[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

As Christians, we're supposed to be watching for the time when "the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night", and, again, Jesus hasn't yet come as the same during the timeframe of the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out upon this earth.

I trust that Jesus knows when he's actually coming, don't you?

The second coming on white horses is NOT THE RAPTURE.

 

[Absolutely]

Hi, oyster67.

No offense, but I honestly don't see how you think the parable of the 10 virgins supports a rapture to heaven.

I mean, the 5 foolish virgins went to buy oil, "and when they went to buy, the bridegroom came" (vs. 10).

If you believe that this coming of the bridegroom speaks of an alleged rapture to heaven for 7 years, then why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

In other words, wouldn't they have had enough time during that alleged 7-year period to buy their oil and be saved?

As far as Christians not being appointed to God's wrath is concerned, I totally agree with you on that point, BUT "the great tribulation" is actually a time of Satan's wrath:

Revelation chapter 12

[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

This "short time" is only 3 1/2 years, and there's nothing in scripture that says Christians will avoid the same.

Granted, some will survive that timeframe, but many won't.

Furthermore, as far as God's wrath is concerned, I would ask you to prayerfully consider the following:

Revelation chapter 16

[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Between the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out in the last days, Jesus still hasn't "come as a thief" or "as a thief in the night".

In fact, he instructs his followers, who are Christians, to "watch" and "keep their garments".

Why is this significant?

Well, if we back up what you cited from I Thessalonians chapter 5 just a bit, then we read the following:

I Thessalonians chapter 5

[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

As Christians, we're supposed to be watching for the time when "the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night", and, again, Jesus hasn't yet come as the same during the timeframe of the 6th and 7th vials of God's wrath being poured out upon this earth.

I trust that Jesus knows when he's actually coming, don't you?

The 144k are Jews and believers.
They are firstfruits to a harvest.
That means main body of Jews comes next.
Rev 14.

Never have I seen a postrib adherent unpack our verses.
Never.

 

[Absolutely]

"""Here, first, "the dead in Christ" or those whom Jesus is bringing with him in his DESCENT FROM HEAVEN "shall be raised incorruptible", and then those who are alive and remain "shall be changed".

For what purpose?

To allegedly make a U-turn back to heaven for 7 years?

No, not at all."""

You leave out the rapture verses to " prove" there is no rapture.

Too funny.

You should at least read our verses.

But it ain't happening.
Never has...never will.

 

[Live4Him]

"""Here, first, "the dead in Christ" or those whom Jesus is bringing with him in his DESCENT FROM HEAVEN "shall be raised incorruptible", and then those who are alive and remain "shall be changed".

For what purpose?

To allegedly make a U-turn back to heaven for 7 years?

No, not at all."""

You leave out the rapture verses to " prove" there is no rapture.

Too funny.

You should at least read our verses.

But it ain't happening.
Never has...never will.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you believe that this coming of the bridegroom speaks of an alleged rapture to heaven for 7 years, then why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

The answer is given right there in the parable. They were not genuine Christians.

And the parable of the Ten Virgins does related to the Rapture of the Church. Here Christ is portrayed by the Bridegroom and the Church is portrayed by the five wise virgins. And this warning (Mt 25:13) confirms that this is about the Rapture: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. It is only Christians who can and should watch for the coming of Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture (which is one event).

As to the seven years, it could be more than seven years between the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. No one can know with certainty.

 

[Live4Him]

"""Here, first, "the dead in Christ" or those whom Jesus is bringing with him in his DESCENT FROM HEAVEN "shall be raised incorruptible", and then those who are alive and remain "shall be changed".

For what purpose?

To allegedly make a U-turn back to heaven for 7 years?

No, not at all."""

You leave out the rapture verses to " prove" there is no rapture.

Too funny.

You should at least read our verses.

But it ain't happening.
Never has...never will.

What are you talking about?

First of all, I never said that there isn't a "rapture".

Instead, I said that certain portions of scripture are not talking about a "rapture" TO HEAVEN, and they aren't, and you could never prove that they are.

In fact, and it is a fact, Jesus and the dead in Christ are COMING AND DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN, and the saints who are alive and remain are "caught up" or "raptured" to meet them in the air IN THEIR DESCENT TO THIS EARTH.

Now, go ahead and prove otherwise.

Show us in either I Thessalonians chapter 4 or 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the two portions of scripture that I cited, where the alleged U-turn back to heaven is.

It isn't there, so you really should calm down a bit and embrace the actual truth.

 

[oyster67]

why were the 5 foolish virgins ultimately shut out?

They were not ready for the Rapture. We need to keep our lamps trimmed and burning, amen?

In other words, wouldn't they have had enough time during that alleged 7-year period to buy their oil and be saved?

Yes, but they will have missed the Rapture and may lose their heads. Those who come out of tribulation as believers and avoid getting their heads chopped off may be the ones who repopulate the earth during the Millennium.

"the great tribulation" is actually a time of Satan's wrath:

God's wrath.

3.5 year of Satan's deception, Then 3.5 years of God's wrath (GT).

Revelation chapter 16

[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Amen.

 

[oyster67]

The foolish end up in heaven early on in the trib as the innumerable number.

Yes, the martyred Saints who lost their heads.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

There is no bride without the saved remnant of Israel and and all the tribulation believers.
There can be no marriage supper with an incomplete bride.
The wedding feast happens on earth after Jesus returns when his bride is made ready.

The New Jerusalem happens with the creation of a new heavens & earth 1000 years later.

Yes.

(Rev 21:9
And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I shall show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

(Rev 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

 

[Absolutely]

What are you talking about?

First of all, I never said that there isn't a "rapture".

Instead, I said that certain portions of scripture are not talking about a "rapture" TO HEAVEN, and they aren't, and you could never prove that they are.

In fact, and it is a fact, Jesus and the dead in Christ are COMING AND DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN, and the saints who are alive and remain are "caught up" or "raptured" to meet them in the air IN THEIR DESCENT TO THIS EARTH.

Now, go ahead and prove otherwise.

Show us in either I Thessalonians chapter 4 or 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the two portions of scripture that I cited, where the alleged U-turn back to heaven is.

It isn't there, so you really should calm down a bit and embrace the actual truth.

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

How did they get to HEAVEN?
THEY ARE IN HEAVEN...DURING THE TRIB

Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

"And the earth was reaped"

Where do you think they went?

Rev 19
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

See that. The bride becomes the wife in heaven.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

See that? The same ones in white linen ,the bride, are on white horses WITH JESUS IN HEAVEN.

THEN THE LAST SUPPER;

""But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.""

Yep in heaven where the mansions he is building are soon to be finished.

But to you they will never be occupied.


john 14
1 let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Yep the business we do in heaven is wonderful. Too bad your doctrine OMITS it.


Acts 1;
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Hmmmmm.
You guys got a war going on somewhere in that ascention.with billions of white horses.
Nope you guys so poorly thought out your doctrine.

How bizarre.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes.

(Rev 21:9
And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues, came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I shall show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

(Rev 21:10
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

Uh no.
Jesus does not marry a building.

 

[Absolutely]

What are you talking about?

First of all, I never said that there isn't a "rapture".

Instead, I said that certain portions of scripture are not talking about a "rapture" TO HEAVEN, and they aren't, and you could never prove that they are.

In fact, and it is a fact, Jesus and the dead in Christ are COMING AND DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN, and the saints who are alive and remain are "caught up" or "raptured" to meet them in the air IN THEIR DESCENT TO THIS EARTH.

Now, go ahead and prove otherwise.

Show us in either I Thessalonians chapter 4 or 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the two portions of scripture that I cited, where the alleged U-turn back to heaven is.

It isn't there, so you really should calm down a bit and embrace the actual truth.

""Now, go ahead and prove otherwise.""

Ok that is easy.

""Show us in either I Thessalonians chapter 4 or 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the two portions of scripture that I cited, where the alleged U-turn back to heaven is.""

Lol
You omit the other rapture verses and think you proved something

""It isn't there, so you really should calm down a bit and embrace the actual truth""

I am rested ready, and snacking on my veggie tray. Try not to second guess me please. You guys workbook is so easy to take apart..

Don't claim any high ground by omiting verses and reframing others please.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

The parable of the Ten Virgins is a fine picture of the Rapture and the Wedding. Those who are ready go to a Marriage Feast, not a Tribulation. We, the Church, are not appointed to wrath.

Matthew
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.
25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1 Thessalonians
5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

If God has not appointed His Children to Wrath, then why are only His Saints being killed during the 7 years, and the wicked left untouched? Either God is killing His own, or Satan is killing them, which would make the 7 years appropriately named The Tribulation, and not named The Wrath.


Jesus said the end of the world would be in the exact fashion as the days of Noah and Lot. Which one of these scenarios is NOT TRUE?

1. Upon a 7 day warning, Noah finished filling the ark. Immediately the rain began to fall. The same day, the earth was flooded.​

​

2 Lot was told not to look back when he exited Sodom, and the same day God destroyed the city.​

​

3. Jesus will save His Bride, the Church, then *seven years later, destroy the wicked.​

​

*The Words of Jesus Christ:

Luke 17:26 “And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

 

[Absolutely]

If God has not appointed His Children to Wrath, then why are only His Saints being killed during the 7 years, and the wicked left untouched? Either God is killing His own, or Satan is killing them, which would make the 7 years appropriately named The Tribulation, and not named The Wrath.


Jesus said the end of the world would be in the exact fashion as the days of Noah and Lot. Which one of these scenarios is NOT TRUE?

1. Upon a 7 day warning, Noah finished filling the ark. Immediately the rain began to fall. The same day, the earth was flooded.​

​

2 Lot was told not to look back when he exited Sodom, and the same day God destroyed the city.​

​

3. Jesus will save His Bride, the Church, then *seven years later, destroy the wicked.​

​

*The Words of Jesus Christ:

Luke 17:26 “And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

Lol
You just proved noah and lot are pre Judgement dynamics.

Neither was rescued post flood or post destruction/ judgement

PSSST you need noah rescued and lot rescued AFTER JUDGEMENT.

All you did was promote a pretribulation deliverance.

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

If God has not appointed His Children to Wrath, then why are only His Saints being killed during the 7 years, and the wicked left untouched? Either God is killing His own, or Satan is killing them, which would make the 7 years appropriately named The Tribulation, and not named The Wrath.


Jesus said the end of the world would be in the exact fashion as the days of Noah and Lot. Which one of these scenarios is NOT TRUE?

1. Upon a 7 day warning, Noah finished filling the ark. Immediately the rain began to fall. The same day, the earth was flooded.​

​

2 Lot was told not to look back when he exited Sodom, and the same day God destroyed the city.​

​

3. Jesus will save His Bride, the Church, then *seven years later, destroy the wicked.​

​

*The Words of Jesus Christ:

Luke 17:26 “And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

You never addressed oysters post on the 10 virgins which is a vivid,vivid picture of the gathering of the bride ( the rapture) pretrib.

10 virgins half are taken.

Mat 24 has half taken as well.
Then watch and ready are Jesus words.
Half taken...watch and be ready.

Definitely a pretrib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Any of you postribs care to answer mat 25 ten virgin rapture verses?

Such a slam dunk picture of the gathering of the bride.
To heaven no less.

 

[Absolutely]

What about rev 14??

Any wisdom on that chapter ?
144 k in heaven as firstfruits
Main body of Jews gathered to heaven during the trib. By Jesus sitting on a cloud????
Not a billion horses?????

Any explanation how they beat the dead in Christ to heaven?( You guys claim the resurrection is after the gt.)....so the dead in Christ really do not rise First?????