Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#463
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#463
Jimbone said:
I agree, but it can't mean "He did" either. It's just not there so you don't get to build on what's not there. If it's not in the text then you don't get to wield it as a fact to bash the people you disagree with. Of course share what you believe and we should hear you out, but you were wording as if it was written clearly in the text, and "if" anyone was interpreting in that crowd it wasn't recorded in what we read. Honestly I agree with how the guy that everyone jumped on to "teach", the text clear does say that each person heard in in their own tongue, the only thing I disagreed with was the way he worded it as if this way all of what tongues was period. But assumed interpreters, in my opinion, is a much hard case to defend because it's not there at all "you" have to "add" it. How am I wrong here?
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I am not following you,but maybe we agree.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#465
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#465
eternally-gratefull said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else see the word “baptism” missing from this passage?

It says Jesus came by water and blood. Did He speak of baptism? Or was it speaking of the water and blood which poured out of his body when the roman pierced his side with a sword (proving he was dead?)
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Some say it is natural birth "water"

Could be.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#466
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
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#466
7seasrekeyed said:
you are saying that Jesus' sacrifice was not enough

by adding water baptism as part of salvation and mistakenly teaching that water washes away sin...while the Bible states ONLY the blood of Christ washes away sin...you are creating an error that makes Jesus sacrifice insufficient

you say one thing and then create half a dozen posts stating if you are not baptized, you are not saved

you are saying two different things and who do you think you are fooling here?
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The way I see it is that Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for all of mankind's sin. I believe this is why Jesus said "it is finished" just before dying on the cross. The bible says the gospel includes Jesus' burial and resurrection too. Jesus burial and resurrection speak to His being the first fruit of the spirit rebirth.
I believe that in water baptism and spirit infilling a person has the work of Jesus applied to them personally. (Rom 6-4; 10:16; Col 2:12)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#467
#467
Wansvic said:
The way I see it is that Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for all of mankind's sin. I believe this is why Jesus said "it is finished" just before dying on the cross. The bible says the gospel includes Jesus' burial and resurrection too. Jesus burial and resurrection speak to His being the first fruit of the spirit rebirth.
I believe that in water baptism and spirit infilling a person has the work of Jesus applied to them personally. (Rom 6-4; 10:16; Col 2:12)
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Your putting water baptism equal with Jesus death and burial. Which was her point to begin with.. And 3 of those passages speak nothing of water baptism. Except one in passing (after the HS baptism was performed already) They speak of SPIRIT baptism.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#468
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
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#468
eternally-gratefull said:
Your putting water baptism equal with Jesus death and burial. Which was her point to begin with.. And 2 of those passages speak nothing of water baptism. They speak of SPIRIT baptism.
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The bible shows that God designed water baptism. Jesus and His disciples commanded it be done. Whether the scriptures pertain to water or Spirit baptism is an ongoing debate. I personally see them as relating to water baptism.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#469
#469
Wansvic said:
The bible shows that God designed water baptism. Jesus and His disciples commanded it be done. Whether the scriptures pertain to water or Spirit baptism is an ongoing debate. I personally see them as relating to water baptism.
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See, You just proved my point

Your equating water baptism by the hands of men, as equal to spirit baptism by the hands of God.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#470
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
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#470
Wansvic said:
The truth of my belief actually goes back to the apostolic era. Water baptism was a consistent component seen in the beginnings of the NT church. Catholicism is where the use of the titles of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost during water baptism began. Those who would not accept the "new" way of baptizing were persecuted. Unfortunately, now it is a commonly held tradition wherein many comply.
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still, you will not answer the question ' Is a person baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; in water a valid baptism?

answer the question, Y or N ?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#471
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
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#471
eternally-gratefull said:
See, You just proved my point

Your equating water baptism by the hands of men, as equal to spirit baptism by the hands of God.
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God created the concept of water baptism not man.

I leave you with this adage: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. :)

You are entitled to what you believe as I am.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#472
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
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#472
CS1 said:
still, you will not answer the question ' Is a person baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; in water a valid baptism?

answer the question, Y or N ?
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This question is different than the past one.
I don't think so. But God is the judge.

CS1 said:
LOL you can't paste a context, the question you failed to answer is the point. please don't dance.
I asked you this :
If Baptism in the Name of Jesus is as essential as you say the Apostles made it, why would one be filled with the Holy Spirit and not be saved?
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I answered this question previously. I said the sequence in which one repents, gets water baptized in Jesus' name and receives the infilling of the Holy Ghost is not what is relevant. What is relevant is obedience to all three things as instructed and seen in the bible.

I don't know how to more clearly answer your question.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#473
#473
Wansvic said:
God created the concept of water baptism not man.
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I never said otherwise. So stop with your nonsense.

He also created the concept of circumcision and many other worls. NON OF WHICH have ANYTHING to do with salvation.

Your holding water baptism ABOVE these works. And EQUAL with the works of Christ.

Thats YOUR ISSUE. And you need to bring that up with God. Not me

I leave you with this adage: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. :)

You are entitled to what you believe as I am.
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While your correct.

It goes far deeper than this. The one that is wrong will have eternal consequences.

You wanna lead people like horses to water, thats on you (and you will be resisted) As paul resisted the jews who tried to add works to the gospel)

Me, and most other people in this chatroom, We will lead people to Christ. Who promises to give the rivers of LIVING water leading to eternal life.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#474
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#474
Wansvic said:
This question is different than the past one.
I don't think so. But God is the judge.

I answered this question previously. I said the sequence in which one repents, gets water baptized in Jesus' name and receives the infilling of the Holy Ghost is not what is relevant. What is relevant is obedience to all three things as instructed and seen in the bible.

I don't know how to more clearly answer your question.
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it is relevant because the Holy Spirit does not empower the one who is not saved, and the very Book of Acts shows us those who were empowered with the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized and after they were water baptized.

Which would be in direct refute of the requirement of being baptized in the Name of Jesus "Only" to be saved.

Those like you say on one hand "yes you do need to be baptized in Jesus name ONLY to BE saved " Then as a coward says in the same breath " Let God be the Judge".

Your own doctrine you don't even have enough integrity to answer truthfully.

LOL, what a joke.

Yes, you do need to be baptized in Jesus name only But God is the judge? really? FYI if you said YES!!! you do need to be baptized in the Name of Jesus ONLY to be saved Guess what, YOU did in fact, Judge.

it is very sad that you would put a false narrative while attacking the Holy Spirit and those who are saved by what you think and not what the word of God says. You removed the words of Jesus and replaced them with a TERM THAT IS NOT EVEN SAID IN THE WORD OF GOD. You must be baptized in Jesus name ONLY is never said. NEVER.

then try to tell me that the teaching of initial evidence is not in the word of God. There is more proof by what the Holy Spirit than what you can say those have to be baptized in ONLY to be saved.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#475
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
#475
eternally-gratefull said:
I never said otherwise. So stop with your nonsense.

He also created the concept of circumcision and many other worls. NON OF WHICH have ANYTHING to do with salvation.

Your holding water baptism ABOVE these works. And EQUAL with the works of Christ.

Thats YOUR ISSUE. And you need to bring that up with God. Not me


While your correct.

It goes far deeper than this. The one that is wrong will have eternal consequences.

You wanna lead people like horses to water, thats on you (and you will be resisted) As paul resisted the jews who tried to add works to the gospel)

Me, and most other people in this chatroom, We will lead people to Christ. Who promises to give the rivers of LIVING water leading to eternal life.
Click to expand...
Water baptism is a NT mandate. Whereas circumcision was an OT mandate. There is a big difference.

Paul's reprimand was always about Christians being draw away by people trying to add OT responsibilities to NT ones.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#476
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#476
Wansvic said:
Water baptism is a NT mandate. Whereas circumcision was an OT mandate. There is a big difference.

Paul's reprimand was always about Christians being draw away by people trying to add OT responsibilities to NT ones.
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what is not mandated and you cannot prove biblically that being baptized in water has to be done in Jesus name ONLY.
 
Waggles

Waggles

Senior Member
#477
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,262
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South
adelaiderevival.com
#477
eternally-gratefull said:
The one that is wrong will have eternal consequences.
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So stop being wrong.
eternally-gratefull said:
Me, and most other people in this chatroom, We will lead people to Christ. Who promises to give the rivers of LIVING water leading to eternal life.
Click to expand...
You are joking.
To have rivers of living water flowing out from a believer requires a believer to pray in tongues.
Praying in the Holy Spirit (tongues) is living water.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#478
#478
Wansvic said:
The way I see it is that Jesus' sacrifice paid the penalty for all of mankind's sin. I believe this is why Jesus said "it is finished" just before dying on the cross. The bible says the gospel includes Jesus' burial and resurrection too. Jesus burial and resurrection speak to His being the first fruit of the spirit rebirth.
I believe that in water baptism and spirit infilling a person has the work of Jesus applied to them personally. (Rom 6-4; 10:16; Col 2:12)
Click to expand...
then why do you add baptism as a part of salvation and state if you are not baptized you are not saved?

Jesus death on the cross is sufficient

your teaching on baptism is adding to the 'it is finished'


being filled with the Holy Spirit is separate from being baptized yet you appear to conflate the 2

to quote you: 'we an all read what you posted'
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#479
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
#479
CS1 said:
it is relevant because the Holy Spirit does not empower the one who is not saved, and the very Book of Acts shows us those who were empowered with the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized and after they were water baptized.

Which would be in direct refute of the requirement of being baptized in the Name of Jesus "Only" to be saved.

Those like you say on one hand "yes you do need to be baptized in Jesus name ONLY to BE saved " Then as a coward says in the same breath " Let God be the Judge".

Your own doctrine you don't even have enough integrity to answer truthfully.

LOL, what a joke.

Yes, you do need to be baptized in Jesus name only But God is the judge? really? FYI if you said YES!!! you do need to be baptized in the Name of Jesus ONLY to be saved Guess what, YOU did in fact, Judge.

it is very sad that you would put a false narrative while attacking the Holy Spirit and those who are saved by what you think and not what the word of God says. You removed the words of Jesus and replaced them with a TERM THAT IS NOT EVEN SAID IN THE WORD OF GOD. You must be baptized in Jesus name ONLY is never said. NEVER.

then try to tell me that the teaching of initial evidence is not in the word of God. There is more proof by what the Holy Spirit than what you can say those have to be baptized in ONLY to be saved.
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As you stated no matter what I said it would have been unacceptable because it does not line up with your belief system.

I did answer. I stated I do not think, as others do, that a baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is a valid baptism. There is no record of one administering baptisms using the phrase "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Everyone of the records state the specific use of the name of Jesus.

Ultimately the word of God is the judge and I believe the following scripture pertains to the action performed in water baptism:
"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Col 3:15
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#480
#480
eternally-gratefull said:
I think he already has me on ignore..because I did the same thing you are..
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well he is actually a she

at least her profile suggests that

oh my differences with her theology started way back when she presented OT circumcision as NT water baptism

butchering the Bible one doctrine at a time

see, the thing is this person will say they believe in the gifts and waggles will say the same but then they ADD to what is in scripture and I have a huge problem with that

they perfectly illustrate a valid reason why so many turn away from those who profess to have spiritual gifts

they illustrate the skeptic's guide to the gifts over and over and over again
 
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