Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Mar 14, 2011
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Both water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost were God ordained.
So is refusing to forsake the assembling together, And the lords supper. And loving others, And christian grown and many other commands.

But non of them works have any part in our salvation. Neither does water baptism.

But if you think it will make you born again, feel free. Just know Gods people will nto allow you to preach it to others without being involved.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The gospel is the power of God UNTO salvation to every one that believeth. What word of truth was heard, believed and responded to?
Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, You and your household.

Whoever believes in him will not perish but has eternal life

Whoever believes is not condemned, But whoever does not believe is condemned already

Believe with your heart, and confess with your mouth.

 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Not a salvation issue. I think more how can we hear in a hope of it becoming clearer as the day draws nearer. then when we first were given the faith to believe Our invisible God..

This is one of a couple doctrines that seem to destroy the foundation of doctrines .which are usually in the Old. Like the tongues doctrine.

From my experience most who make the claim of comfort from a unknown have little idea what tongues is or was it used means? According to my understanding its more those will seek after it by making their mind available as if its was the Holy Spirit? Jesus experienced that kind of ideology in Mathew 4, Three times the in heaven Father puts his word in Jesus's mouth and declared as it is written .

It seems.....lets get filled with wonderment as source of mysticism . No faith coming from all things written in the law and the prophets. No faith is . . . sounds that have no meaning.

No such thing as a "sign gift . Sign yes. Gift, yes. . Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. Sign gift.... both words working as one.... no . One source of Christ's faith, as it is written

Prophecy is for believers .Its what the sign according to the law given in 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 points to as the foundation of tongues doctrine in Isaiah 28

Sign gifts is the foundation of everyone that does seek after signs. . .it would seem to replace drawing power prophecy .(unknowns proves itself false) .

Can't see spiritual gifts of the Spirit, as if God was a man like us..We look to the things not seen. . . called faith. . . the eternal .

I have not met one person who seeks after wonderment's as "sign gifts" that will even look to the foundation of the doctrine .

I am reminded of David in the Psalms . What will the believers do if the foundations of the doctrines of God are destroyed. I would call. The shield psalm.

Perhaps a person should rethink ., how they hear God . There is always the danger of what do other says? Not that we should not seek after the gifts of the spirit as help from each other in respect to the whole body of Christ.

Psalm 11 King James Version (KJV) In the Lord put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.
If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

It would appear we lose our defense "the shield of faith". we must defend it as it is written or we have no support.

Above all, taking the "shield of faith:, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesian 6: 16

Once one confirms the outcome of 1 Corinthian 14:22-23 the rest of the doctrine of tongues falls into place .It will reveal what some call a "unknown tongue" as those that yet after all the scriptures that teaches us on the doctrine of tongues They still refuse to hear and look to the foundation . Its what the sign does confirm, unbelief. .

Personalty I would not want that kind of a sign following me .
I agree that "signs" should never be what we look to. We only look to Jesus, and if my comment made it sound like I believe otherwise, like what you just described then I just did a bad job at communicating, because that is not what I believe or even close to what is preached at the church I go to. There is no tongues=salvation at my church nor the lifting up of anything but Jesus, and I couldn't disagree more with the idea that “proof of my salvation” is tongues. I thought that would be clear when I said I was saved without tongues or baptism, and was not saved after having repeated a prayer with "all my heart" and being baptized. So, I agree with your whole comment and if you were just "adding to" what I was saying then I misunderstood and thought you were suggesting that I agree with these things you are speaking against.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Your right

So you BETTER be baptised into. Christs death

Because OTHERWISE yoru stil dead in yoru sin

Oh, and PS. Only God can baptise you into christ. That is called spirit baptism, or baptism of the spirit.

Your water baptism has no power. Or means to baptize you into Christ. .
No need for concern. I have received the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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So is refusing to forsake the assembling together, And the lords supper. And loving others, And christian grown and many other commands.

But non of them works have any part in our salvation. Neither does water baptism.

But if you think it will make you born again, feel free. Just know Gods people will nto allow you to preach it to others without being involved.
The commands you reference were not the specific instructions given by Peter after he and those in the upper room received the Holy Ghost. Paul obeyed the commands as well to repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name and receive the Holy Ghost and shared the same message with others. There is a big difference. It concerns rightly dividing the word of God in order to obtain understanding.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, You and your household.

Whoever believes in him will not perish but has eternal life

Whoever believes is not condemned, But whoever does not believe is condemned already

Believe with your heart, and confess with your mouth.
Belief prompts action.

Jesus' words are pretty specific about required obedience concerning placement of a proper foundation:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:46-49
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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You asked me if I experienced a dove. I said what I experienced. Nothing was said that you would experience the same.

Holy Spirit seems to me to be very personal individually. He definitely is as the wind that you can only feel or hear speak.
Where in the scripture it is taught that you feel ore hear the Holy Spirit speaking while become baptised with Him?
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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Hell is defined according to the word of God as an affliction of God as living work of suffering.... with a plea to the one pouring out his wrath on a living human to strengthen him to finish the thee day and night work of suffering with, required to purify the person in preparation to bring the gospel to the Ninivites . The finishing touches...Spit Jonas on shore. . . . Jesus walked out of the cave (his body kept from corruption for three days)

Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

well it seems you know more of hell than anything I mentioned

I guess you write from what you know

so do I

Jonah obeyed God even though he did not want to

God stayed His hand because he did so.

how much time have you spent in that belly? I would dare say none at all

ponder that
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I have the old version of scripture that contains the following:

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved

even though there will be a solar eclipse over Argentina and Chile today, in fact over most of SA, I do not believe that is what Peter saw

now come back and say that all men or young men or old men or whoever do not have these things happen and I will tell you that of course not when even so many Christians doubt that God is able

they doubt it because they do not have it. therefore, in their closed and darkened way of thinking, no one experiences anything

they will use scripture like a weapon but these words will not achieve the effect they are sent for because God has not spoken and is not speaking through men who demand He yield to them

He is God and you should search for Him with your whole heart and find Him while He may be found

I could go on, but those who know and understand what is written see where I am going with this
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The commands you reference were not the specific instructions given by Peter after he and those in the upper room received the Holy Ghost. Paul obeyed the commands as well to repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name and receive the Holy Ghost and shared the same message with others. There is a big difference. It concerns rightly dividing the word of God in order to obtain understanding.
Lol
Ma'am you make me laugh, Thanks. Sometimes we need a good laugh.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Belief prompts action.
Yes it does I never stated otherwise.

But it will prompt more than being baptized in water, it will prompt a new life which brings about many works.

Jesus' words are pretty specific about required obedience concerning placement of a proper foundation:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:46-49
Jesus never preached salvation by immersion. If we could be saved by water, he would have just said so and ascended to heaven, because the cross became useless.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I don't see in scripture where baptism with the Holy Spirit happens under two separate occasions. I see where ALL believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) and certain believers are "filled" with the Holy Spirit to accomplish specific tasks, as we saw at Pentecost when they began to speak in other tongues and those listening heard them speak in their own language.
so in further response to the above I offer the following from scripture as I said I would:

Acts 8

14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, 16 for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit.

if a person was/is baptized in the name of Jesus then that would be because they were already saved. these people were saved and then received the Holy Spirit as did the believers in Acts...ie in a different way or as a 2nd conformation of following Christ

18 [f]When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me this power too, so that anyone upon whom I lay my hands may receive the holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your money perish with you, because you thought that you could buy the gift of God with money. 21 You have no share or lot in this matter, for your heart is not upright before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord that, if possible, your intention may be forgiven. 23 For I see that you are filled with bitter gall and are in the bonds of iniquity.” 24 Simon said in reply, “Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.” 25 So when they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem and preached the good news to many Samaritan villages.

now apparently Simon did accept Jesus but he was not filled with the Holy Spirit. in this case, we see someone who was saved but the old nature was in charge and he desired what he saw, the miracles etc, as something he wanted rather then for the reasons Christ gives. say what you want, but it is still a second example of a second occasion of action that the Holy Spirit takes on those who in faith receive. in this case, of course, Simon did not receive and this is also a good example of asking awry or for the wrong reason. God says no and believers with discernment will also say no

Acts 10

The Baptism of Cornelius. 44 While Peter was still speaking these things, the holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word.[s]45 The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the holy Spirit should have been poured out on the Gentiles also, 46 for they could hear them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter responded, 47 “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people, who have received the holy Spirit even as we have?” 48 He ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. 49 Then they invited him to stay for a few days.

so here we have the circumcised believers with Peter who were surprised, in fact, astounded, that the GIFT of the Holy Spirit should come upon an uncircumcised..ie not Jewish..believer in Christ. now how did they KNOW the Holy Spirit had fallen on them?

BECAUSE

THEY COULD HEAR THEM SPEAKING IN TONGUES

note the scripture does not say how did they know they were saved, but rather how did they know the Holy Spirit had fallen once again

then they were water baptized

two things to notice here, (those who have eyes and ears will see and hear)

1. people were speaking in tongues and there is no reference to others understanding what they were saying whatsoever. they took the tongues as PROOF of the Holy Spirit falling

2. the water baptism took place after the above. apparently the Spirit of God is not as stiff and proper about things it seems as those who say they speak for Him

now God is not a respecter of persons in the sense some here are or at least profess to be, but He speaks plainly and has spoken plainly and the above indicates in several ways, that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is NOT happening at salvation but can but can also happen apart from salvation and God will NOT benefit those who seek for the wrong reasons

In general and to all:

its all there in the Bible and so is what Paul taught concerning tongues and the other gifts

deny it at your own risk
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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How did the Word of the Lord, memrah, become written?
To set the standard God hewed out of stones two tablets and with the finger of God set the standard writing the law for men to hear God not seen.Finger of God represents the will of God just as hands or forehead. God is not served by human hands. He does all the work or none. >

Those who do not believe in a God not seen broke the commandments as God's law .....destroying the first. The next time God moved Moses to hew out two new stones and with the finger of God write them again .From that time after God world move the prophets as if it was the finger of God. The writing is on the wall of the law.

Daniel 5:4-6 King James Version (KJV) They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone. In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.


Exodus 34:1And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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so here we have the circumcised believers with Peter who were surprised, in fact, astounded, that the GIFT of the Holy Spirit should come upon an uncircumcised..ie not Jewish..believer in Christ. now how did they KNOW the Holy Spirit had fallen on them?

BECAUSE THEY COULD HEAR THEM SPEAKING IN TONGUES

What did God tell them through that work of his tongue? How did they know if the words did not have any understanding? Who told them it was tongues ? What defines tongues and where can we find the foundation of the doctrine?

Note the scripture does not say how did they know they were saved, but rather how did they know the Holy Spirit had fallen once again
We are saved by a unseen work called the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" the washes away of our sins by the water of the word. It comes as he gives us his faith by which we can believe. It has nothing to do with getting wet or making sounds that have no purpose other than to self edify oneself with wonderment runs out and needs to be filled weekly or a person has run out of spirit life. .

Tongue is one of the many manners of prophecy . What does the sign of those who refuse to hear prophecy confirm ? We know prophecy confirms the word of God. It is God's word . Again what does the sign confirm ( it opposes something or the would be no need for a sign.

Again what does the sign confirm in respect to the law 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 One of those who seeks after what they call "sign gifts" but have no answers?

Find out what the signs confirms.... compare scripture to scripture ...faith to faith then the doctrine fall into place.

Seek to be led by words of faith (prophecy) not wonderment as person experiences(the sky is the limit) . Pride builders, fill me uppers.

We follow Faith not Mysticism..
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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In the conversation with Nicodemus Jesus uses the wind blowing and its effects on nature in clouds trees and seas as a comparison to seeing the effects on people born of the spirit in that it changes the lives of those people. Spiritual gifts including tongues are outward signs of being born again but spiritual transformation is the vital effect on the individual. What happened at Pentecost was a reversal
of what happened to those who tried to build a tower in order to reach heaven. At Pentecost Heaven came to them that's why those present heard the Disciples speak in their own languages and why their nationalities are listed. Also the feast of Pentecost was celebrated to commemorate Moses bringing the word of God down from the mountain. The word came down from God again.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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We can find this teaching in the NT and in church history.
It is only you who are blind to truth of the scriptures and of true church history.

Have you found the foundation for tongues yet? You say we can find the foundation is the new .Where is it found ?
and what does it have to do with the law in 1 Corinthians 14:21 -22? Are you allowed to look into the foundation ?

Joel gives us some insight God bringing prophecy thorough men and women from all the nations . no longer after those who refuse to hear God .Mocking him as if he did not exist. The true nature of paganism . look to what the eyes see and pretend its the eternal not seen.

Or for all that yet you will not hear prophecy .

Can you find the teaching in the Old testament?

I found some in the old I can share. The old and new compliment each other in that way .

Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering (mocking ) lips and another tongue (not hebrew) will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children (judge not by ones feel good emotions ) in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (all the nations of the world) and other lips (all the nations of the world)will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, (prophecy) but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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We can find this teaching in the NT and in church history.
It is only you who are blind to truth of the scriptures and of true church history.
Then please show me in the NT where it is taught to believers that speaking in tongues is the evidence for to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. And who taught this in the churchhistory? I dont know anybody.

I claim for myself to be bornagain through Gods grace. And so I received the Holy Spirit.
I dont feel it, but i know it.

If you call me blind for the truth. It wonders me, because the Spirit i received opend my eyes for the truth.

Btw, you believe that bornagain christians lived before 1908 in your country?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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well it seems you know more of hell than anything I mentioned

I guess you write from what you know

so do I

Jonah obeyed God even though he did not want to

God stayed His hand because he did so.

how much time have you spent in that belly? I would dare say none at all

ponder that
jeus did not want to do his own will either .he obeyed the father. Both cases the same. The last sign as a wonder

We are all on the same learning curve .The remainder of our lives.

The belly of the whale is my wife when I do not act in a loving way . My belly is the attic she has a fear of heights, not husbands.

3 minutes seems like a eternity

Proverbs 21:9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house.