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Our Lord said, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So I guess I am led to believe in the context of this message that God ultimate plan was that man and women where to be together and not same sex relationships.
The choice for us to make is if we choose to follow God or our flesh. I see born into sin as being born into a sinful world. Earlier someone mentioning you know how being a drug addict or alcoholic, and to say they were born that way as if to passing the blame. I see that as to be true. We always look to pass the blame. Adam tried to do it saying Lord, it was the woman that you sent me. We do it even with the excuse, if our parents were alcoholic, that being why their children became one. That may have been acceptable behavior growing up in that environment. Hence the statement of being born in a sinful world. Some of those children become alcoholics and some don't, being raised in this type of environment. If it's to say it was a generational curse, then why not all of the children except a few?
By the way how would gay parents be able to pass this on to their children in having them to be born this way?
*Biggiestomp*
So I guess I am led to believe in the context of this message that God ultimate plan was that man and women where to be together and not same sex relationships.
The choice for us to make is if we choose to follow God or our flesh. I see born into sin as being born into a sinful world. Earlier someone mentioning you know how being a drug addict or alcoholic, and to say they were born that way as if to passing the blame. I see that as to be true. We always look to pass the blame. Adam tried to do it saying Lord, it was the woman that you sent me. We do it even with the excuse, if our parents were alcoholic, that being why their children became one. That may have been acceptable behavior growing up in that environment. Hence the statement of being born in a sinful world. Some of those children become alcoholics and some don't, being raised in this type of environment. If it's to say it was a generational curse, then why not all of the children except a few?
By the way how would gay parents be able to pass this on to their children in having them to be born this way?
*Biggiestomp*
J
Dr Jake,
While I agree with you that the stories of the Bible are specific to a time and place. For example: God protecting his chosen people by allowing them to kill others that may lead them astray (to death) in Deuteronomy was a part of the God's word that was specific to a time and place... (we don't believe that it's okay to do that now)... I don't think it is in any way unclear that God was making a blatant statement that Sexual Immorality and homosexuality is wrong... and continued to do so numerous times in the Bible. It's about being careful not to find "excuses" in the Bible for allowing yourself to do sinful things because of misinterpretation.
Ultimately, after praying and spending a lot of time with God and church... He showed me that being gay was not His will for me... there is no question, and I finally stopped blurring the lines of the Bible to work in my favor.
Just quickly also to respond to your final statement about the Bible having many wonderful things to offer but dating tips were not among them. I'm pretty sure there are multiple mentions of how a husband should treat his wife and how she should treat her husband. Whether married or not, I would say that these apply towards how you should respect your mate during dating as well.
While I agree with you that the stories of the Bible are specific to a time and place. For example: God protecting his chosen people by allowing them to kill others that may lead them astray (to death) in Deuteronomy was a part of the God's word that was specific to a time and place... (we don't believe that it's okay to do that now)... I don't think it is in any way unclear that God was making a blatant statement that Sexual Immorality and homosexuality is wrong... and continued to do so numerous times in the Bible. It's about being careful not to find "excuses" in the Bible for allowing yourself to do sinful things because of misinterpretation.
Ultimately, after praying and spending a lot of time with God and church... He showed me that being gay was not His will for me... there is no question, and I finally stopped blurring the lines of the Bible to work in my favor.
Just quickly also to respond to your final statement about the Bible having many wonderful things to offer but dating tips were not among them. I'm pretty sure there are multiple mentions of how a husband should treat his wife and how she should treat her husband. Whether married or not, I would say that these apply towards how you should respect your mate during dating as well.
It seems that the Apostle Paul answered some of this in Romans the 1st ch. He addresses the Church at Rome, and begins to speak about God, creation, and a form of sexual immorality that had found it's way into the church at Rome. With this Paul begins to lay the foundation for the entire book to the Romans. But more to the point of your discussion, Paul states in verse 28 that 'God gave them over to a reprobate mind' to believe a lie; so they probably do believe they were born this way, as they will be kept until the time of their judgement. This is a New Testament document and Paul was not trying to languish in the Old Covenant Law, but was just eternally being Paul; there was a problem in the church at Rome and his need was to fix the problem through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So yes, many of them do believe they were born this way and their going to use this to their bitter end. When the fullness of these things have come to pass God will fulfill His prophecy of Sodom and Gomorrah throughout the whole earth, instead of it's type and shadow in the Old Testament holy lands. There seems to be a special curse from God on these creatures besides just fallen and sinful beings. But if they can be saved it's still found in the Gospels just like anyone else, but because they are given over to believe that the truth is a lie and the lie is the truth, that makes it hard! So if we believe the scripture, then there is a special curse on this sort of sexual immorality and those who support it; and God's judgement that will bring it to a close and nothing else.
I am not gay, but I know many gay people say they were born that way...it matters not if they were born gay, or just turned gay...they are sinners like the rest of us are sinners. Jesus said he would give all life who belive in him.
I know the Bible says, "Men who sleep with men, will not inhearted the Kingdom." The Kingdom is at the end of Jesus 1,000 year rule...it's when man will be perfect.
I know the Bible says, "Men who sleep with men, will not inhearted the Kingdom." The Kingdom is at the end of Jesus 1,000 year rule...it's when man will be perfect.
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P
I've been hesitant to enter this thread, but I do want to point out that many people have used the Genesis story of Sodom and Gomorrah to condemn homosexuality. We should not be looking to this passage when condemning homosexuality. Read the text. The men of Sodom sought to humiliate and gang rape Lot's guests. They would have been perfectly happy raping Lot's daughters. Long before this took place, God had already condemned Sodom as wicked. Ezekiel 16:49-50 tells of Sodom's sin: "This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy..." The sin was inhospitality, just as the men of Sodom wanted to treat Lot's guests with inhospitality by raping them! Jesus suggests the same in Matthew 10:14-15 "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet...Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah..." Jesus is referring to his disciples who are not treated hospitably. If we are going to condemn homosexuality, we should not use Sodom. I have more to say about the few other scriptural passages against homoerotic desire in the bible, but I don't want to make this post too long.
P
We should, I think, consider the two Old Testament prohibitions against homoerotic desire in context, and then try to prayerfully understand what God is saying about homoerotic desire (as well as other sexual sins). The context for the prohibitions is the Israelites immigration into the land of Canaan. Israelites are called to be "holy" -- qadosh -- that is to be "set apart" from the practices of Canaanite society, and in particular Canaanite religious practices, which included temple prostitution and other sexual immorality. This is clear when in Leviticus, amongst the long list of prohibited sexual practices, is the prohibition "you should not sacrifice any of your offspring to Molech." Molech was a Canaanite deity. We are told that Canaanites prostituted themselves to Molech. The Israelites were to set themselves apart from being assimilated into Canaanite religious practices.
