Both progressive and traditional types of Christians blatantly disobey the Bible... and this example about men and women proves it.

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DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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#61
I’d like to engage, but I suspect the op is a bomb thrower, who splits after tossing a bomb, and doesn’t address the various points made.

I also think it’s much about how he wanted everyone to see his artwork.

On the subject itself, we have freedom in Christ, if someone thinks it’s sin for a woman to pray uncovered, that’s on them.

The very interesting, and completely ignored nugget in the text is the part about “because of the angels”.

Why would an angel care if a woman’s head was covered while praying to God?
Because of what took place in the Garden and has never stopped.
Good Morning and Peace
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,465
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#62
Christ unites and saves, Paul divides. In every thread i see, when Paul is mentioned, division is certain to follow. Now why is that?

Blessing
The Holy Spirit, speaking thru Paul's writings are a Strong Arm wrestling match of Spirit vs Flesh/Religion.

This is why you see divisiveness = there is no agreement between the Holy Spirit and the workings of religion/flesh/carnal understanding of the law.
There can never be agreement between the Holy Spirit and doctrines of men and demons.
There is only One Truth that was first spoken by God in Genesis.
Christ said He came not for peace but to bring forth the Sword of the Spirit = His Word
Christ unites us unto Himself to bring us to the Father without sin.
Christ and the Holy Spirit spell BIG TROUBLE in this world/age/religion/political agenda

PEACE to you this Glorious Day
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,087
571
113
68
Texas
#63
Tell me something: In real life, would you walk into a room full of strangers, declare that you have things right and assume everyone else is wrong, and accuse them of wrongdoing? Maybe you would. That's what you just did here.
And he is right!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,965
7,150
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#64
Women who wore their hair short displayed their rebellion against God and nature opening themselves up to the angels that sinned to take them for wives. Your thoughts?
Well, IF the passage is referring to some manner of temptation the angels had upon seeing that the daughters of men were beautiful, then short hair on women might be seen as a good thing.

This whole issue is a bit baffling. I think we're missing something. Why shouldn't men have long hair?

Certainly those that took a Nazarite vow, were instructed NOT to cut their hair. although Jesus almost certainly did not take a Nazarite vow.
 
Jun 1, 2022
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#65
Why is this so important to you? What does this have to do with cherry picking? Welcome to CC.
If that is a depiction of your wife it kinda looks like you did a bit of cherry picking yourself ....

... doesn't depicting an image of your wife break the first commandment?

I actually believe in following the scripture just as closely as we possibly can .... God is amazingly long suffering towards our foibles. There are times when God visits His people in revival power which can only be described in terms of majesty and awe ... at such times men and women learn to dot their i s and cross their t s
Ha, ha. Touché. Well done, brother. But, if Moses can make Cherubim ( Exodus 25:10-22), maybe it is okay for me to draw and paint a picture. Maybe. Great post. And thank you for making your point while still being a gentleman. You set a good example for us. May the Lord bless you.

And out of respect for your point, I will not place art in this post, LOL.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#66
This whole issue is a bit baffling. I think we're missing something. Why shouldn't men have long hair?
Start here to find an answer:

1 Corinthians 11:

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

What is missing is actually in the realm of the plainly obvious - which is indicated to us in this verse.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,965
7,150
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#67
Start here to find an answer:

1 Corinthians 11:

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

What is missing is actually in the realm of the plainly obvious - which is indicated to us in this verse.
So Samson, John the Baptist, and other Nazarites were going against nature?

Or only certain men should have long hair? Which opens the question, just how long is long?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#68
God does not want men to look like women.

God does not want women to look like men.

I like to make the illustration that - if you cannot tell in one second or less whether a person 100 yards away is male or female - something is severely wrong.

The question to ask is:

"Why is this so?"
 

Jesusfollower

Active member
Oct 21, 2021
200
98
28
near Montreal, quebec
#69
The Holy Spirit, speaking thru Paul's writings are a Strong Arm wrestling match of Spirit vs Flesh/Religion.

This is why you see divisiveness = there is no agreement between the Holy Spirit and the workings of religion/flesh/carnal understanding of the law.
There can never be agreement between the Holy Spirit and doctrines of men and demons.
There is only One Truth that was first spoken by God in Genesis.
Christ said He came not for peace but to bring forth the Sword of the Spirit = His Word
Christ unites us unto Himself to bring us to the Father without sin.
Christ and the Holy Spirit spell BIG TROUBLE in this world/age/religion/political agenda

PEACE to you this Glorious Day

Hello David,

Thank you for your insights, I have another question(s) for you. What did paul add that Christ or the twelve did not say? Basically why do we need paul's texts? Did not Jesus say it all?, Did he not do the fathers will? Why do we need Paul own personal gospels? Do you not realize paul's words do contradict Jesus's words?

Please do reference scriptures.

Blessings,

JF
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#70
So Samson, John the Baptist, and other Nazarites were going against nature?
Apparently, they are a special case - against nature or not.

The question is - do you believe Paul is speaking the truth from God?

We know the Bible does not contradict itself - so - "more study is required"...

If we are to believe what Paul said - that the truth is as it seems by the verse put straight forward - then, it is a shame for men to have long hair - period.

We should then search the scriptures for the answer we seek - until it all makes sense with no appearance of contradiction in our mind...

Or only certain men should have long hair? Which opens the question, just how long is long?
I answered the second question in post #59.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,965
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#71
Apparently, they are a special case - against nature or not.

The question is - do you believe Paul is speaking the truth from God?

We know the Bible does not contradict itself - so - "more study is required"...

If we are to believe what Paul said - that the truth is as it seems by the verse put straight forward - then, it is a shame for men to have long hair - period.

We should then search the scriptures for the answer we seek - until it all makes sense with no appearance of contradiction in our mind...


I answered the second question in post #59.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you, except to the extent that this issue isn’t so cut and dry.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,824
2,827
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#72
Well, IF the passage is referring to some manner of temptation the angels had upon seeing that the daughters of men were beautiful, then short hair on women might be seen as a good thing.

This whole issue is a bit baffling. I think we're missing something. Why shouldn't men have long hair?

Certainly those that took a Nazarite vow, were instructed NOT to cut their hair. although Jesus almost certainly did not take a Nazarite vow.
Scripture states that long hair on men is against nature. Doesn't nature teach us? (Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?) I guess it goes against nature like men with men in Romans 1.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
10,965
7,150
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#73
Scripture states that long hair on men is against nature.
Scripture also teaches this:

NUMBERS 6

The Law of the Nazirite
6 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin.
5 ‘All the days of the vow of his separation no razor shall come upon his head; until the days are fulfilled for which he separated himself to the Lord, he shall be holy. Then he shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.


The point is, this issue needs more studying, like Gary said.


But to be clear, I'm not crazy about long hair on a guy or very short hair on a woman. I don't think either is a sin though, unless you want it to be one. Then it IS a sin.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,814
11,417
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#74
… But to be clear, I'm not crazy about long hair on a guy or very short hair on a woman. I don't think either is a sin though, unless you want it to be one. Then it IS a sin.
It seems like you’re saying that the opinions of others determine whether a person’s choice of hair length is sinful. I suspect that’s not what you mean.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,465
1,784
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#75
Hello David,

Thank you for your insights, I have another question(s) for you. What did paul add that Christ or the twelve did not say? Basically why do we need paul's texts? Did not Jesus say it all?, Did he not do the fathers will? Why do we need Paul own personal gospels? Do you not realize paul's words do contradict Jesus's words?

Please do reference scriptures.

Blessings,

JF
Good Afternoon,
i just returned home now to see this and will joyfully answer your question with the scripture - Thank You
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
2,785
1,285
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#76
The covering of hair or not covering of hair is precisely in line with Paul's other comments about dressing modestly.

IOW do not stand out by what you wear. Don't make YOURSELF be the focus...instead let GOD and his message be the focus and not what you are wearing or not wearing. Especially during prayer or prophesying.

Paul was forever repeating himself. How everyone comes up with a completely new theology about what everyone should do as some sort of new legalism is beyond me.
 
Jun 1, 2022
26
9
3
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#77
God does not want men to look like women.

God does not want women to look like men.

I like to make the illustration that - if you cannot tell in one second or less whether a person 100 yards away is male or female - something is severely wrong.

The question to ask is:

"Why is this so?"
Why do you think this is so?

My take: Male and Female God made us, in His very image. When a man looks like a woman, and the other way around, it distorts the image of God. Satan likes that, defacing the image of God.

Better it is that men dress like men, get a man's haircut or at least tie back longer hair, and even better still to grow a beard. It is odd that we shave our whiskers off, as if God made a mistake with our faces. We should clearly make the distinctions. And a woman should dress and wear her hair in a way distinct from a man. In my grandpa's time, men wore suits, women wore dresses and covered their heads in church. Now, I can go to church with my wife, both of us wearing tennis shoes, jeans, and a t-shirt. Hair length for both male and female no longer matters. No distinction. Genders blurred in how we dress and look. Genders blurred in what we do. Genders blurred in how we worship. Genders blurred when it comes to authority. Genders blurred, leads to sexuality blurred. No wonder our children are confused.

Funny. I was talking to one old man about this. He said that all the men should wear hats to church. And when the women tell us to take our hats off in church because it is disrespectful, we tell them okay but they should put one on.
eye-color.jpg
 
Jun 1, 2022
26
9
3
South US
#78
The covering of hair or not covering of hair is precisely in line with Paul's other comments about dressing modestly.

IOW do not stand out by what you wear. Don't make YOURSELF be the focus...instead let GOD and his message be the focus and not what you are wearing or not wearing. Especially during prayer or prophesying.

Paul was forever repeating himself. How everyone comes up with a completely new theology about what everyone should do as some sort of new legalism is beyond me.
Sounds easy going and simple the way you write about it. HOWEVER, if that is all the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us here, then Paul would just say what you said. I do agree with you that modesty is indeed important, especially in worship. But if we carefully read all of it we recognize that Paul is referring more to hierarchy, not modesty. Hierarchy, sometimes it makes equality and democracy lovers nervous. But on the matter of salvation, be at ease (Mat 20:1-16).
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#79
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you, except to the extent that this issue isn’t so cut and dry.
The point is, this issue needs more studying, like Gary said.
1 Corinthians 11:14 is pretty cut and dry.

Paul states it quite plainly.

The "more study" comment/remark was about reconciling other parts of scripture.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
2,785
1,285
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#80
Sounds easy going and simple the way you write about it. HOWEVER, if that is all the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us here, then Paul would just say what you said. I do agree with you that modesty is indeed important, especially in worship. But if we carefully read all of it we recognize that Paul is referring more to hierarchy, not modesty. Hierarchy, sometimes it makes equality and democracy lovers nervous. But on the matter of salvation, be at ease (Mat 20:1-16).
Maybe you should ponder on what I said and the hierchy that what I explained instills.

Then try once again.