Cain's Offering

[TLC209]

The key term I was using is bloodless, and not sacrifice.

You chose to nitpick over the wrong point.

Its not nit picking. Does an offering need blood? I ask again does your offering at church have blood. Does our giving our life to Christ as an offering require blood?

You all attribute Cain and Abels story as a symbol of salvation, yet this story just reveals Cains heart to be wicked. His offering did not have faith and it did not have love. He did not love. That is why he killed his brother whom he did not love.

Has nothing to do with blood or veggies thats why it was not something God revealed to us. Because the only thing He revealed is what is necessary for us to take from their examples. Not the offerings themselves. God bless you guojing. Dont take things so personal.

 

[Guojing]

Its not nit picking. Does an offering need blood? I ask again does your offering at church have blood. Does our giving our life to Christ as an offering require blood?

You all attribute Cain and Abels story as a symbol of salvation, yet this story just reveals Cains heart to be wicked. His offering did not have faith and it did not have love. He did not love. That is why he killed his brother whom he did not love.

Has nothing to do with blood or veggies thats why it was not something God revealed to us. Because the only thing He revealed is what is necessary for us to take from their examples. Not the offerings themselves. God bless you guojing. Dont take things so personal.

So the way you interpret the Cain and Abel story is under my category 3. That is fine.

I don't understand why you are bringing in church offerings into this discussion. We no longer need to offer animals now.

 

[TLC209]

So the way you interpret the Cain and Abel story is under my category 3. That is fine.

I don't understand why you are bringing in church offerings into this discussion. We no longer need to offer animals now.

Offerings is not sacrifices. Thats why im bringing it up. You dont get what im saying? Offerings are not requiring of blood. That was the entire point. The offering you put in the offering plate. No blood is taken there... so why assume blood was necessary of their offering?

If you are doing a sacrifice I assume something is going to die or be killed or what not. Thats seperare than an offering.

 

[Guojing]

Offerings is not sacrifices. Thats why im bringing it up. You dont get what im saying? Offerings are not requiring of blood. That was the entire point. The offering you put in the offering plate. No blood is taken there... so why assume blood was necessary of their offering?

If you are doing a sacrifice I assume something is going to die or be killed or what not. Thats seperare than an offering.

We have Jesus's eternal blood cleansing us, but the 2 of them do not. I didn't realized you were unaware of this difference.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So to sum up, you believe that if Cain offered fine flour/grain, his bloodless sacrifice would have been accepted by God?

If Cain had brought his offering in faith God would have had respect to Cain and his offering.

 

[TLC209]

We have Jesus's eternal blood cleansing us, but the 2 of them do not. I didn't realized you were unaware of this difference.

Oh I see so they were cleansing themselves? When was this told to them to do this? We know about Jesus because were thousands of years in the future and Jesus came and died for our sins. Cain and Abel didnt have that knowledge. It was hidden with God until Jesus Christ was sent.

But if that what you believe that story is about. Thats fine.

 

[TLC209]

If Cain had brought his offering in faith God would have had respect to Cain and his offering.

God knew Cain was jealous bitter and harbored hatred for his younger brother. God sees the heart. Abel had faith. He had love. He was righgeous. Cain was not. Cain was angry Cain lacked faith, Cain was a murderer at heart. God warned him before Cain acted on what was in his heart. Murder, jealousy, envy, anger, bitterness etc etc the fruits of the flesh. His offering would always be rejected until he did well. He made his choice...

 

[Guojing]

If Cain had brought his offering in faith God would have had respect to Cain and his offering.

Okay, confirmed that you are in category 3 too.

 

[JamOn]

Okay, confirmed that you are in category 3 too.

What is category 3 ?

 

[TLC209]

If Cain had brought his offering in faith God would have had respect to Cain and his offering.

We have Jesus's eternal blood cleansing us, but the 2 of them do not. I didn't realized you were unaware of this difference.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

So we can see that Cain should have first made peace with his brother before bringing his gift/offering. Because God will reject us. Him and his gift were rejected. Its not about the gift. Blood, gold, silver, animal, veggies, fruit, oil, perfume you name it. Thats not what its about. It has to do with the persons heart and conduct. Are they pleasing to the Lord? Cain was not.

 

[Guojing]

Oh I see so they were cleansing themselves? When was this told to them to do this? We know about Jesus because were thousands of years in the future and Jesus came and died for our sins. Cain and Abel didnt have that knowledge. It was hidden with God until Jesus Christ was sent.

But if that what you believe that story is about. Thats fine.

After Adam and Eve was banished from the Garden, the entire family camped near the entrance of the Garden of Eden.

It was there when they observed their parents offering animal sacrifices, based on the model of what God did for them to cover their nakedness. Adam and Eve saw God killing animals to cover them, and got the idea there.

If you don't believe that, okay, its not recorded in the Scripture anyway, but I believe that was how they learned that, to approach God, you will need blood.

 

[Guojing]

What is category 3 ?

Earlier in this thread, https://christianchat.com/threads/cains-offering.188820/post-4097959

There are generally three different ways to interpret Cain and why did God reject him:

1. The Calvinist way would say Cain was predestined, since Abel was the elected one. Thus, they believe that even if Cain was to offer the exact animal sacrifice that Abel did, he would still have been rejected.
2. People who lean more towards dispensationalism would say "Faith in God required the correct works then, that an animal sacrifice was needed to show your faith in God". Abel did that and was accepted, Cain did not even after God reminded him a second time and thus was rejected.
3. Others who are against dispensationalism would say "Abel believed God in faith and he was accepted. Cain did not believe in God and he was rejected. The animal sacrifice is a result of that belief, and played no part in the initial acceptance or rejection.

 

[Guojing]

If Cain had brought his offering in faith God would have had respect to Cain and his offering.

One question I have for you though. When you read Genesis 4:7, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

I take it as you interpret this "does well" into "believe well, aka, having faith"?

 

[TLC209]

Earlier in this thread, https://christianchat.com/threads/cains-offering.188820/post-4097959

I had told u i reject that entire post and found it ridiculous. I dont know why you keep referring to that post. I fall in neither category. Appreciate if you not label me. Especially not by those ridiculous standards. Thanks in advance.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

He made his choice...

In order for Cain to have “made his choice”, Cain had to have heard the Word of God.

Cain suppressed the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) and walked in his own wisdom.

Cain is the beginning of man-made religion (doctrines of men).

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Okay, confirmed that you are in category 3 too.

Please refrain from placing me in any "category" of your own surmising. Thank you.

I am a born again believer, saved by grace through faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a member in particular ... God has placed me in the body of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as it has pleased Him.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

So we can see that Cain should have first made peace with his brother before bringing his gift/offering. Because God will reject us. Him and his gift were rejected. Its not about the gift. Blood, gold, silver, animal, veggies, fruit, oil, perfume you name it. Thats not what its about. It has to do with the persons heart and conduct. Are they pleasing to the Lord? Cain was not.

There is nothing in the record to indicate that prior to Cain’s offering in Gen 4:3 and Abel’s offering in Gen 4:4 Cain “had ought against” Abel.

It wasn’t until after God had respect to Abel’s offering and God did not have respect to Cain’s offering that Cain became “very wroth, and his countenance fell” (Gen 4:5).

Then God instructed Cain concerning the sin offering (Gen 4:7).

Cain again rejected God’s instruction and turned his wrath against his brother and killed Abel.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

After Adam and Eve was banished from the Garden, the entire family camped near the entrance of the Garden of Eden.

It was there when they observed their parents offering animal sacrifices, based on the model of what God did for them to cover their nakedness. Adam and Eve saw God killing animals to cover them, and got the idea there.

If you don't believe that, okay, its not recorded in the Scripture anyway, but I believe that was how they learned that, to approach God, you will need blood.

You have no Scripture (chapter/verse) to support your assertion that there was any observation that “they observed their parents offering animal sacrifices, based on the model of what God did for them to cover their nakedness”.

And then place believers in certain “categories” of your own surmising because you “believe that was how they learned that”.

Scripture plainly tells us faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17).

Abel “heard” the Word of God in order to make his offering through faith (Heb 11:4).

Cain “heard” the Word of God in order to make his offering not through faith.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

One question I have for you though. When you read Genesis 4:7, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

I take it as you interpret this "does well" into "believe well, aka, having faith"?

I believe the instruction in Gen 4:7 is separate and distinct from the offering brought by Cain and Abel as shown in Gen 4:3-4.

I believe Cain and Abel heard the Word of God concerning the offerings each of them brought in Gen 4:3-4. We do not know what Word of God Cain and Abel heard because it is not recorded in Scripture.

After Cain saw that God had respect to Abel and to Abel's offering, and God did not have respect to Cain and to Cain's offering, Cain became very wroth and his countenance fell (Gen 4:6). God then gave instruction to Cain concerning the sin offering Cain could bring in order to "do well and be accepted" (Gen 4:7).

 

[TLC209]

There is nothing in the record to indicate that prior to Cain’s offering in Gen 4:3 and Abel’s offering in Gen 4:4 Cain “had ought against” Abel.

It wasn’t until after God had respect to Abel’s offering and God did not have respect to Cain’s offering that Cain became “very wroth, and his countenance fell” (Gen 4:5).

Then God instructed Cain concerning the sin offering (Gen 4:7).

Cain again rejected God’s instruction and turned his wrath against his brother and killed Abel.

How do u know it was a sin offering? And who kills their brother because they gave a better gift? Theres a level of hatred or a level of COLDNESS meaning NO LOVE. You dont just kill your brother. He clearly didnt like his brother and God knew..