Cain's Offering

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Mar 28, 2016
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You keep quoting a scripture about believing in Jesus Christ the Son of God and a secondary quote that faith comes by hearing about Jesus Christ. Cain knew nothing about the Son of God. Jesus was not born yet and wasnt going to be born for thousands of years. Cain didnt even know about a flood coming. Your interpretation makes no sense.
I would offer. Not a faith that comes from hearing about Jesus (second hand) but a faith that comes directly from hearing the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in the Son of man, as it does with us or Abel as two walking together.

It would seem you are not mixing faith which is spoken of in Hebrew 4 (no gospel spiritual understanding ) in what we do hear or see coming from the word of God. And therefore believe God not seen .

In 2 Corinthians 4:18 there is a valuable tool needed to rightly divide the parables that do teach us how to walk by faith. The work of salvation was finished from the foundation of the world.it is from that work we ca rest being yoked with Christ.

The Son of God who remains without mother or father beginging of spirit life or end of it is our High Priest after the order of Melchezedek continually.

The Son of man, Jesus born of the corrupted flesh who came to demonstrate one time that work of his own flesh as that which the eyes see the temporal. Jesus declares it profits for nothing, zero. But rather it is the unseen spirit as the word of God that does quicken our souls giving us new spirit life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Salvation does not depend of the birth of Christ as the Son of man in respect to his temporal flesh. But is considered the Son of God according to the unseen Holy Spirit of Christ with power according to unseen resurrection.

The same spirit of Christ that works in us that do believe to the salvation of our soul worked in Abel . God puts no difference between them and us... purifying their hearts by a work of His faith just as us. No power from the flesh, the demonstration

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

No such thing as the flesh of holiness. We walk by faith, the eternal. . . not by sight. . the temporal.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Garee, once again you are making the fallacy of anachronism.

Please don't make up your own definition for it! Go and look it up in a proper dictionary.
Froward nation no faith. Froward used 21 times

Dictionary….Froward is… To be froward means to be habitually disposed to disobedience and opposition to someone or something like a law.

They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,207
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Froward nation no faith. Froward used 21 times

Dictionary….Froward is… To be froward means to be habitually disposed to disobedience and opposition to someone or something like a law.

They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
"Froward" as in "froward nation" has nothing whatsoever to do with "anachronism" and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Cain.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
545
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Merced, CA
I would offer. Not a faith that comes from hearing about Jesus (second hand) but a faith that comes directly from hearing the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in the Son of man, as it does with us or Abel as two walking together.

It would seem you are not mixing faith which is spoken of in Hebrew 4 (no gospel spiritual understanding ) in what we do hear or see coming from the word of God. And therefore believe God not seen .

In 2 Corinthians 4:18 there is a valuable tool needed to rightly divide the parables that do teach us how to walk by faith. The work of salvation was finished from the foundation of the world.it is from that work we ca rest being yoked with Christ.

The Son of God who remains without mother or father beginging of spirit life or end of it is our High Priest after the order of Melchezedek continually.

The Son of man, Jesus born of the corrupted flesh who came to demonstrate one time that work of his own flesh as that which the eyes see the temporal. Jesus declares it profits for nothing, zero. But rather it is the unseen spirit as the word of God that does quicken our souls giving us new spirit life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Salvation does not depend of the birth of Christ as the Son of man in respect to his temporal flesh. But is considered the Son of God according to the unseen Holy Spirit of Christ with power according to unseen resurrection.

The same spirit of Christ that works in us that do believe to the salvation of our soul worked in Abel . God puts no difference between them and us... purifying their hearts by a work of His faith just as us. No power from the flesh, the demonstration

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

No such thing as the flesh of holiness. We walk by faith, the eternal. . . not by sight. . the temporal.
You make absolutely no sense. Who is your pastor. Someone needs to pray over you. You need an elder or a Spiritual leader to guide you. But MOST OF ALL YOU NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I cant even begin to breakdown your comments because they make no sense. I cant respond to such confusion. God is not the author of confusion sir.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You make absolutely no sense. Who is your pastor. Someone needs to pray over you. You need an elder or a Spiritual leader to guide you. But MOST OF ALL YOU NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I cant even begin to breakdown your comments because they make no sense. I cant respond to such confusion. God is not the author of confusion sir.
Can't or won't?

He most certainly is not a God of confusion. Christ's Faith comes by hearing the understanding of the parables which without he spoke not .That is what seem confusing to you I would think? learn how faith and parables work as one. Its where we find the hidden pearls. Don't be afraid to dig,

It was confusing to the apostles as Christ attempted to teach them how to walk by faith. He purposes in parables 3 times hid the spiritual understanding. The first time when he hid the unseen understanding of faith. It was like Jesus disappeared . They thought they needed a leader that had the right look like King Saul the peoples choice. walk by sight no faith needed. Then they played who is the Alpha male .Flesh and blood wrestlemania world champion 34 AD

Luke 9 :45-46 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.


Again he set another parable before them to help them learn what it means to "walk by faith" . And again playing who is the greatest they thought Jesus was confused and they said its the older guys that we reject not the little ones.

Luke 9 :48-50 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us..

They had no faith by which they could determine who was against them or supported them .

Again he set another parable before them to help them learn what it means to walk by faith.this time he loked one way and sent messenger in another to the nation they had hatred for. thinking jeus is really confused .they though he should be bring down fire on them and deatoy as in out of sight out of mind.

Luke 9 :51-54 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Finally with three denoting the end of a matter he turned to the confused ones and revealed to them they did not know how to walk by faith the right or gospel manner of spirit.

Luke 9 :55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
545
181
43
38
Merced, CA
Can't or won't?

He most certainly is not a God of confusion. Christ's Faith comes by hearing the understanding of the parables which without he spoke not .That is what seem confusing to you I would think? learn how faith and parables work as one. Its where we find the hidden pearls. Don't be afraid to dig,

It was confusing to the apostles as Christ attempted to teach them how to walk by faith. He purposes in parables 3 times hid the spiritual understanding. The first time when he hid the unseen understanding of faith. It was like Jesus disappeared . They thought they needed a leader that had the right look like King Saul the peoples choice. walk by sight no faith needed. Then they played who is the Alpha male .Flesh and blood wrestlemania world champion 34 AD

Luke 9 :45-46 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.


Again he set another parable before them to help them learn what it means to "walk by faith" . And again playing who is the greatest they thought Jesus was confused and they said its the older guys that we reject not the little ones.

Luke 9 :48-50 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us..

They had no faith by which they could determine who was against them or supported them .

Again he set another parable before them to help them learn what it means to walk by faith.this time he loked one way and sent messenger in another to the nation they had hatred for. thinking jeus is really confused .they though he should be bring down fire on them and deatoy as in out of sight out of mind.

Luke 9 :51-54 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Finally with three denoting the end of a matter he turned to the confused ones and revealed to them they did not know how to walk by faith the right or gospel manner of spirit.

Luke 9 :55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
I understand scripture fine. The Holy Spirit leads me in the Word. I dont understand YOU. YOU DONT MAKE ANY SENSE. Youre interpretation of scripture isnt well interpreted. Not sure if there is a language barrier or mainly the fact that the Holy Spirit doesnt line up with what youre saying.

Im not going to argue with you about it. Have a blessed day. Ill pray for you Gary.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,207
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Froward nation no faith. Froward used 21 times

Dictionary….Froward is… To be froward means to be habitually disposed to disobedience and opposition to someone or something like a law.

They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
How would you even begin to think that I was telling you to look up "froward" in the dictionary?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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How would you even begin to think that I was telling you to look up "froward" in the dictionary?

It describes a atheist or what you call a fool, like that of Cain . A god unto his own self violating the first commandment .

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.Hebrew 6:4-6

Better things accompanied Able's salvation .

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, thoughwe thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister..Hebrew 6: 9-10
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,207
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It describes a atheist or what you call a fool, like that of Cain . A god unto his own self violating the first commandment .
I didn't ask you for the definition of "froward". I didn't suggest that you go and look it up. I didn't mention it at all. The word you need to look up is "anachronism".
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I didn't ask you for the definition of "froward". I didn't suggest that you go and look it up. I didn't mention it at all. The word you need to look up is "anachronism".
The word faith used to represent God not seen.It is not a anachronism.

Sorry Jesus did not use words like . .. "anachronism".

What words did he use to define "anachronism". Can you give a couple of examples ?

What makes you think the froward generation of no faith is "anachronism". And would not apply to fools or atheists that have no god in their hearts,. . being a god unto themselves and therefore violating the first commandment like those in Hebrews 6. Tasted and shared the power to come and like Cain fell way . . .no faith.

Faith knows the end from the beginning. The Holy Spirit as a work of His faith said let there be and there was.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Not little faith like given to the disciples or us but none, nada zip .

Romans 11:31-33 King James Version (KJV) Even so have these also now not believed, (no faith) that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, (no faith) that he might have mercy upon all.(the elect) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,207
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The word faith used to represent God not seen.It is not a anachronism.
I didn't say that it was.

Sorry Jesus did not use words like . .. "anachronism".
I didn't say that He did.

What words did he use to define "anachronism". Can you give a couple of examples ?
No. Go and look it up.

What makes you think the froward generation of no faith is "anachronism".
I didn't say that I did.

Trace the thread to figure out what I was addressing when I introduce the term, "anachronism". Then go and look up the meaning for yourself. If I tell you the meaning, you will ignore me, as you have done so several times.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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Merced, CA
I didn't say that it was.


I didn't say that He did.


No. Go and look it up.


I didn't say that I did.

Trace the thread to figure out what I was addressing when I introduce the term, "anachronism". Then go and look up the meaning for yourself. If I tell you the meaning, you will ignore me, as you have done so several times.
I looked up anachronism and you hit the nail on the head. I never heard of the word. Good find. Useful. Definetly applies to what Gary is doing with Cain and Abel.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.
To answer your three questions above:

1) Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering? - Cain's offering was not according to God's atonement. Sin can only be atoned for by the shedding of BLOOD. Adam and Even knew this when the first animal was sacrificed in order to provide Adam and Eve with clothing. By inference this was passed down to the children Cain and Abel. SInce Abel brought the correct offering (and he is the younger child) we can posit that Cain also knew what the acceptable offering was. We cannot impose our own way, when God has already made his way clear to us. That is creating God in our own image, a form of idolatry. Cain thought he could bypass God's way.

2) What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well? - Sin's desire was to rule over Cain. The sin of anger (to hate someone is to murder them in your heart). God loved Cain, and was warning him not to open this door, for once he did, this sin would gain power and control over Cain. In addition, what was really truly in Cain's heart was the sin of rebellion against God, and jealousy against his brother.

3) What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"? God's plan is that we rule over sin and not that sin rules over us. This is true for Cain. God's plan was, and always is, that we are to rule over the cravings of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and pride of life. Impossible to do without God's assistance. Only possible in God's Grace. We are (prior to conversion and being born again) slaves to sin. Post conversion, we are slaves to righteousness in Christ Jesus.

Hope this helps you. God bless.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
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To answer your three questions above:

1) Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering? - Cain's offering was not according to God's atonement. Sin can only be atoned for by the shedding of BLOOD. Adam and Even knew this when the first animal was sacrificed in order to provide Adam and Eve with clothing. By inference this was passed down to the children Cain and Abel. SInce Abel brought the correct offering (and he is the younger child) we can posit that Cain also knew what the acceptable offering was. We cannot impose our own way, when God has already made his way clear to us. That is creating God in our own image, a form of idolatry. Cain thought he could bypass God's way.

2) What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well? - Sin's desire was to rule over Cain. The sin of anger (to hate someone is to murder them in your heart). God loved Cain, and was warning him not to open this door, for once he did, this sin would gain power and control over Cain. In addition, what was really truly in Cain's heart was the sin of rebellion against God, and jealousy against his brother.

3) What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"? God's plan is that we rule over sin and not that sin rules over us. This is true for Cain. God's plan was, and always is, that we are to rule over the cravings of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and pride of life. Impossible to do without God's assistance. Only possible in God's Grace. We are (prior to conversion and being born again) slaves to sin. Post conversion, we are slaves to righteousness in Christ Jesus.

Hope this helps you. God bless.
Fantastic, and thank you! Have learned a lot from this thread, and so grateful for all the responses. Definitely a help!

God bless.